Interview MCA on The Onion

[Jason]

Tags: Chris Avellone; Planescape: Torment

Chris Avellone <a href="http://www.avclub.com/articles/avc-at-gdc-10-an-interview-with-alpha-protocol-cre,39091/" target="blank">spent some time</a> with The Onion's A.V. Club discussing what Fall-from-Grace keeps in her drawers.
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<blockquote>AVC: Something I always wanted to know from Planescape: Torment. One of the companions, Fall-from-Grace, carries a diary in her inventory. Is there any way to open it?
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CA: No.
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AVC: What do you call a thing like that? It breaks the rule of inventory, and it’s this little mystery that’s always in front of you.
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CA: I think the expression is “flaunting the gaps.” Basically, you include something that’s appropriate for the character, and it’s also appropriate that you can’t use it. You shouldn’t be able to access her diary at all.
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It seemed important to me that there are certain things characters would wear and wouldn’t wear, or they would keep around them for their own personal reasons that don’t make a shred of combat sense. These are things that are comforting to them. And it makes sense why it’s in their inventory. And you see the negative game mechanic effect of it—yes, it takes one inventory slot, that sucks—but at the same time that’s appropriate for her. It feels more real [as a way to] tie the story into the game mechanics.</blockquote>
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.gamebanshee.com/">GameBanshee</A>

 

[LusciousPear]

The Codex shouldn't be allowed to have posts like these because they occasionally give me hope.

 

[Droog White Smile]

It seemed important to me that there are certain things characters would wear and wouldn’t wear, or they would keep around them for their own personal reasons that don’t make a shred of combat sense.

So this is basically LARPing.

 

[Azrael the cat]

It seemed important to me that there are certain things characters would wear and wouldn’t wear, or they would keep around them for their own personal reasons that don’t make a shred of combat sense.

So this is basically LARPing.

Given that LARPing and crpgs both have a common predecessor in rpgs, it shouldn't be at all surprising that there is significant crossover. Dice-driven combat is pretty much LARPing as well, especially where there is little risk of losing or chess-like strategy involved - e.g. Arcanum, PS:T, Fallout and pretty much every crpg post-Wizardry (unless we are counting games like Jagged Alliance series as crpgs now...). Given how difficult it was to actually lose a fight in Arcanum or Fallout, the combat was pretty much there to LARP being a combatant, if you want to look at it that way.Non-LARPing tactical challenge hasn't been seen in a crpg since Wizardry VII, or maybe VIII if you aren't powergaming it. Maybe Knights of the Chalice too from what I've heard. Or you could just take the view that Arcanum-style-no-strategy-combat, story, characterisation details, dialogues, puzzles and so on are all legitimate parts of gameplay.

I think you've missed the point of the 'Oblivion is a LARPing game' criticisms, Drogg. Using your interpretation of LARPing, there'd be nothing wrong with it - in fact there's been some GREAT LARPing games on that definition - FO and Arcanum standing tall among them. The problem with Oblivion LARPing is that the players' actions - furnishing their house, pretending to be a knight, and all that other insane shite on that list that gets bandied around on this site - are completely unrecognised by the game and utterly external to the game's design. FFG's diary, on the other hand, is something that is specifically IMPLEMENTED in the game, and that gives feedback if you try to use it. A minor bit of polish, sure. And yes, it is LARPing in a sense. But it isn't a matter of pretending to add stuff into the game that isn't there, which was the real complaint behind the 'LOL Oblivion fans LARP' list of 'things to do in Oblivion'.

 

[Forest Dweller]

It seemed important to me that there are certain things characters would wear and wouldn’t wear, or they would keep around them for their own personal reasons that don’t make a shred of combat sense.

So this is basically LARPing.

Get over it.

 

[Jaesun]

Gay

 

[Ogg]

It seemed important to me that there are certain things characters would wear and wouldn’t wear, or they would keep around them for their own personal reasons that don’t make a shred of combat sense.

So this is basically LARPing.

It would be larping if the PC was to be restricted on what he wears or not. Here, it's just character design.

You really are getting dumber day after day.

 

[Krash]

L.A.R.P. = Live Action Role Playing, i.e. people running around in costumes, acting (and sometimes hitting each-other with foam swords). How the fuck does that in any way have anything to do with computer RPGs? You're ruining the word for all of us who like to make fun of real LARPers.

Look I agree that make-pretend in a computer game is retarded, but LARP it is not.

EDIT: Also, nice interview

 

[Grunker]

Real LARPers do not hit each other with foam-swords.

http://delirium.mkromann.dk/

http://clausraasted.dk/motherland/

 

[Krash]

Real LARPers do not hit each other with foam-swords.

Well then they should

 

[ghostdog]

It seemed important to me that there are certain things characters would wear and wouldn’t wear, or they would keep around them for their own personal reasons that don’t make a shred of combat sense.

So this is basically LARPing.

So, you're basically TROLLing.

 

[Dionysus]

Given that LARPing and crpgs both have a common predecessor in rpgs, it shouldn't be at all surprising that there is significant crossover.

I'm pretty confident that LARPing predates any sort of RPG.

 

[Silellak]

"LARPing" is just Codex-speak for "I'm too lazy to come up with any legitimate criticism".

 

[someone else]

Next we will be saying acting is gay.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It seemed important to me that there are certain things characters would wear and wouldn’t wear, or they would keep around them for their own personal reasons that don’t make a shred of combat sense.

So this is basically LARPing.

It would be larping if the PC was to be restricted on what he wears or not. Here, it's just character design.

You really are getting dumber day after day.

Even tough drog is trolling like a mad horse, why is it character design if it's on a NPC but larping if it is on the PC? TNO is a premade character. It could make sense for him to have an object or equipment he inexpicably clings to / can't touch, even if he doesn't remember why, and no possibility of player interference.

 

[DriacKin]

To me:
It's LARPing when the actual player goes out of their way to do stupid shit that doesn't add anything. It's not LARPing when the game forces it on you.

It's LARPing when the gamer holds on to a shitty item just for sentimental value, even though he knows that it has no use in combat or the story.

 

[DraQ]

It seemed important to me that there are certain things characters would wear and wouldn’t wear, or they would keep around them for their own personal reasons that don’t make a shred of combat sense.

So this is basically LARPing.

Given that LARPing and crpgs both have a common predecessor in rpgs, it shouldn't be at all surprising that there is significant crossover. Dice-driven combat is pretty much LARPing as well, especially where there is little risk of losing or chess-like strategy involved - e.g. Arcanum, PS:T, Fallout and pretty much every crpg post-Wizardry (unless we are counting games like Jagged Alliance series as crpgs now...). Given how difficult it was to actually lose a fight in Arcanum or Fallout, the combat was pretty much there to LARP being a combatant, if you want to look at it that way.

Also, isn't demanding mechanics to emulate some actual PnP system LARPing as well? Only it's playing pretend that you're playing a PnP game, so it's more of a LARP^2 and twice as gay than just playing pretend that you're mighty Kronar who smashes goblins.

I think you've missed the point of the 'Oblivion is a LARPing game' criticisms, Drogg.

(...) They are shades of criticism, of insight and of humour given life and twisted by the laws of the Codex.

The problem with Oblivion LARPing is that the players' actions - furnishing their house, pretending to be a knight, and all that other insane shite on that list that gets bandied around on this site - are completely unrecognised by the game and utterly external to the game's design. FFG's diary, on the other hand, is something that is specifically IMPLEMENTED in the game, and that gives feedback if you try to use it. A minor bit of polish, sure. And yes, it is LARPing in a sense. But it isn't a matter of pretending to add stuff into the game that isn't there, which was the real complaint behind the 'LOL Oblivion fans LARP' list of 'things to do in Oblivion'.

Yup. I recall some sad fuck writing about how he washes his robes by dragging them around with physical engine in the water on TESF.

Still, decorating your house (without going out of your way doing it - just keeping stuff arranged in sensible manner, maybe buying a useless trinket or two if they catch your eye, like some coloured candles), I wouldn't call LARPing. Not keeping stuff lying in a big heap on the floor or failure to do so doesn't have much RL consequences either. It's also something enhancing player's psychological comfort and reflecting player's taste, rather than doing inconsequential chores for the sake of "roleplaying" - it's about the same as your character wearing clothes when they are not essential from the mechanics POV or customizing character's looks by the means of portrait, colours or other things - not essential or enforced by mechanics, but something we do without much thought.

I'd also exclude character personality strokes that are too minor or fuzzy to be reasonably enforceable by mechanics - this is normal RPing, LARPing is killing a guard, taking his armour and pretendig to go on patrols in OB.

 

[Silellak]

I don't care if people do stupid shit in games like "washing their robes by dragging them around in the water". Whatever people find fun, I guess.

I draw the line when people claim a game is good but you have to LARP in order to enjoy it. No, just, no. A game should stand on its own - what you choose to do with the environment that game gives you is your own sad business.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's LARPing when the gamer holds on to a shitty item just for sentimental value, even though he knows that it has no use in combat or the story.

Hey, sometimes I do that ;(. Occasionally you get an item that is cool and unique but becomes useless once you get a stronger, yet bland one.

 

[DraQ]

It's LARPing when the gamer holds on to a shitty item just for sentimental value, even though he knows that it has no use in combat or the story.

Hey, sometimes I do that ;(. Occasionally you get an item that is cool and unique but becomes useless once you get a stronger, yet bland one.

It's only larping when he says he's doing it because he roleplays an OCD collector of unique stuff.

 

[Murk]

I donno, after playing games where some useless item in the past suddenly became extremely useful I developed a gamer sense to just keep holding on to weird trinkets, baubles, random items, etc.

Arcanum was especially terrible about that - I didn't pretend I was a hobo but I certainly scoured every rubbish bin and junk dealer I could. Torment had some moments of "better hang on to this, just in case" as well.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I donno, after playing games where some useless item in the past suddenly became extremely useful I developed a gamer sense to just keep holding on to weird trinkets, baubles, random items, etc.

Arcanum was especially terrible about that - I didn't pretend I was a hobo but I certainly scoured every rubbish bin and junk dealer I could. Torment had some moments of "better hang on to this, just in case" as well.

I'm with you - the trauma of 80s/early 90s adventure games takes a long time to fade. There should be a label for it - post-Sierra-kleptomanic-trauma. Counselling and an extended course of modern no-item-puzzles adventure gaming is the only treatment:-(

 

[Gragt]

I don't know what it's for, but I'm sure I need it and so I want it.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Sometimes I would describe a cutscene that would just throw them right in the middle of combat, without warning.

A premonition. A chilling voice. A warning.

Can we reshape the past?

 

[Jaime Lannister]

You once said that a property you’d love to turn into a game is The Wire.

A dangerous task. One might say too dangerous to play a role.

Yet what about strategy? Some might side with the police, others with dealers. Acquisition of resources. Espionage. Multiplayer. An E-Sport?