Game News IGN picks best PC games of E3 2004

[Spazmo]

Tags: Freedom Force versus the Third Reich; Irrational Games

<a href=http://www.pc.ign.com>IGN</a> have made their <a href=http://pc.ign.com/articles/517/517944p1.html>picks for the best games of E3 2004</a>. The best RPG at the show was apparently Freedom Force vs. the Third Reich, with Knights of the Old Republic II and Dragon Age as runners up.
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<blockquote>Superheroes are way cool but until the gang at Irrational came along, masked mutants and costumed crime-fighters were rare in the world of PC games. At E3 this year Irrational was showing the sequel to the game that finally broke the curse. In Freedom Force vs. The Third Reich the villains are back and have managed to alter history so that the Nazis won World War 2. The old Freedom Force gang, bolstered by some fresh recruits, must now travel back to the Golden Age of comics to wage war against the Axis powers. Using the new Gamebryo technology to enhance the visual presentation, the sequel will also offer improved multiplayer support.</blockquote>
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I have to agree--thus far, Freedom Force 2 is indeed looking to be the best game on the horizon.

 

[Anonymous]

IGN sure loves whoring, Dragon Age barely has info about it but it still gets the tag.

I imagine if it didnt have BioWare tagged on it, it would of just been shrugged off.

A wise man once said 'IGN doesnt give reviews, the score at the end shows how good of a relationship they have with the companies'

 

[Nightjed]

It seems they were interested mainly in fps games, not even a word of evil genius, but they did wack developers for the lack of imagination (as in most new games were <insert 2002/2003 game here> 2 though 8)
btw, dont you think that the hl2 models look WAAAAAY better than bloodline's models ?

 

[Volourn]

Spaz, stop pouting because Vampire didn't win. Boo hoo!

Anyways, don't reallyc are too much for the winner myself; and actually wouldn't have minded Vampire being in the top 3 as I liked most of what i saw on it at E3.

 

[Spazmo]

Spaz, stop pouting because Vampire didn't win. Boo hoo!

...what? I didn't even mention Vampire. I just said I was glad Freedom Force won because I think it looks better than anything else currently in development that I know of. Volourn, are you doing any heavy hallucinogens?

 

[Gromnir]

funny thing worth noting is that all the complaints that spaz mentioned for kotor and it not being much of a crpg... all that stuuff goes triple for freedom force.

am thinking of a word that starts with an h...

HA! Good Fun!

p.s. and just for llama, we feel it is necessary to point out that "whore" starts with a "w."

 

[Spazmo]

Oh, I entirely agree that Freedom Force isn't much of an RPG. I even hesitate to call it an action RPG owing to its fairly weak character system (I mean, heck--it hasn't even got items). But I'm still a huge fan of the game and I still really freakin' want to play it.

Edit: That probably didn't antagonize Gromnir enough, so let's try again.

If you want reasons why I like Freedom Force better than KOTOR, I can give you plenty. Let's look at the fundamental flaws of KOTOR here.

1 - Godawful combat. KotOR had really, really bad combat. It was unbalanced, it had a bad interface and was generally not fun. Freedom Force, however, has really fun combat that doesn't win itself (mostly because the team mate AI just isn't there, I guess).

2 - Mind bogglingly stupid story. That whole BEEG PLOT TWIST in KotOR wasn't a masterful bit of writing--it was just stupid. Freedom Force's plot was perfect for the setting of a campy 60's comic book and was generally just neat and filled with interesting characters.

3 - Linearity. KotOR, of course, wins here, just because it offers some basic choices in quest resolution and the "ARE YOU EVIL YES/NO" dialog box towards the end there. Freedom Force is totally linear.

4 - Bastila and Carth's constant whining. Freedom Force doesn't inflict you with a pair of totally whiny assholes who are unfortunately central to the plot, just Manbot, who is actually kinda fun.

SO THERE!

 

[Gromnir]

am just pointing out that your comments 'bout why kotor was a poor crpg/game works pretty well for freedom force. most of why you seemed to dislike kotor was 'cause of its rpg shortcomings. nevertheless, those same things not bother you with ff?

btw, Gromnir is also looking forward to ff2... ff was unbalanced and short and camera sucked and it had virtually no role-play, but it was campy and colorful and it not take itself or the gere the least bit serious.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Gromnir]

combat in ff wa pretty bad. unbalanced far worse than anything in kotor. get the bullet to do his speeding bullet thing on EVERYBODY. game over.

even w/o bullet, every combat were easy… and in ff once you had designed your own character, things was worse... was so easy to create a low point killing machine and destroy EVERYBODY w/o breaking a sweat. heck, the ff combats was largely identical anyways.

spaz, like so many others, misses whole point of kotor story. when did the plot twist occur in kotor? when did it occur in the star wars trilogy? a little light goes on in spaz’s head after a year mayhap?

the biowarians saw that folks liked the original star wars flicks and hated the new star wars stuff. so how you give folks a new star wars game that has what they want. it were very clever to simply take the entire original star wars story arc, complete with characters and themes and plot points, and recreate so that yutz' s like most of the codex posters not even notice. but it sure appealed to star wars fans, didn't it?

as to whinny characters.... ff didn't have any real characters. there was no dialogues and the stories the individuals had was pretty brief and generally forgettable... and they was all occurring outside of any role-play kinda situation. shoulda’ been easier to make good characters ‘cause you not have to give a player multiple possible responses. oh, and if you not find liberty lad to be whiny...

we has heard people complain ‘bout shortness of kotor. anybody take longer than 20 hours to finish ff? sure weren’t no possibility of missed quests or replay to see if doing quests different would change things in game.

bah.

hypocrite.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Freedom Force is a dungeon crawler. As such, it has a different set of standards that apply to it. Personally, I didn't like it much other than to say it did have a neat character system.

 

[Spazmo]

combat in ff wa pretty bad. unbalanced far worse than anything in kotor. get the bullet to do his speeding bullet thing on EVERYBODY. game over.

I guess I didn't use the Bullet all that much, but even if unbalanced, the combat in Freedom Force was at least fun.

spaz, like so many others, misses whole point of kotor story. when did the plot twist occur in kotor? when did it occur in the star wars trilogy? a little light goes on in spaz’s head after a year mayhap?

I don't give a shit where in the story it occurs or how analogous with the original trilogy it's meant to be, it's still a really stupid and poorly handled plot twist. The Darth Vader-Luke thing was at least somewhat foreshadowed and made some sense. The question of Luke's father had been in the air. The KOTOR plot twist just comes out of nowhere and didn't accomplish anything but make me stare in bewilderment and then laugh. Heck, Freedom Force's plot twist (the old "introduce a new main villain to replace the previous main villain" switcheroo) was better than KOTOR's big stunner.

as to whinny characters.... ff didn't have any real characters. there was no dialogues and the stories the individuals had was pretty brief and generally forgettable... and they was all occurring outside of any role-play kinda situation. shoulda’ been easier to make good characters ‘cause you not have to give a player multiple possible responses. oh, and if you not find liberty lad to be whiny...

Liberty Lad was a tad annoying (and he was just a sucky hero, too), but at least you only have to use him in, what? Two or three missions? You're stuck with Carth and Bastila throughout the whole game. Besides that, I'd say they're still way more annoying than Liberty Lad, who was good for the odd laugh.

As for Freedom Force's characters, I'd say Nuclear Winter and his cronies had tons more personality and charm than anyone in KOTOR ever did. Same goes for most any other villain and most of the heroes. But again, I do agree that Freedom Force isn't much as an RPG and maybe barely qualifies as an action RPG. I just very much like the game and had more fun with it than KOTOR.

we has heard people complain ‘bout shortness of kotor. anybody take longer than 20 hours to finish ff? sure weren’t no possibility of missed quests or replay to see if doing quests different would change things in game.

Good for some people, but I never complained about the length of KOTOR. Compared to most games nowadays, it's downright long--my playthrough took 25 hours plus the time that's not recorded in there (for reloads and such). Freedom Force may have been shortish, but I never really noticed. It was a FLASH! WOW! BANG! over! experience like Max Payne 2 or Call of Duty was.

HA! Good Fun!

I'd like to know why Gromnir so vehemently defends KOTOR all the time. I barely even mentioned the damn game until he brought it up. If I outright attack the game, sure, but why does my praising Freedom Force cause him to come and harp about KOTOR? Is it just because he really liked KOTOR? Or does he just want to annoy me because he really disliked my ToEE review? Perplexing.

 

[Jed]

ff was unbalanced and short and camera sucked and it had virtually no role-play, but it was campy and colorful and it not take itself or the gere the least bit serious.

I'd like to point out to Gromnir that "genre" has an "n."

HA! Bad Grammar!

 

[Gromnir]

Gromnir vehemently defends kotor all the time?

HA!

now that is good.

we criticized kotor combat and balance and the way redemption were handled. we criticized the way skills was used and we noted that carth needed lithium, that t3-m4 seemed pointless and that bastilla had no heart.

just 'cause you is a hypocrite not mean that Gromnir is.

"the combat in Freedom Force was at least fun."

brilliant analysis. kotor = bad. ff = good. give you a pulitzer.

"The Darth Vader-Luke thing was at least somewhat foreshadowed and made some sense. "

and it weren't foreshadowed in kotor? is not Gromnir's fault you was too dim to pick up on all the clues, but most of us knew it were coming even if we didn't realize that kotor was 'posed to be an homage to star wars more than it were 'posed to be original. you didn't notice? oh well, not say much for your perception, does it?

"As for Freedom Force's characters, I'd say Nuclear Winter and his cronies had tons more personality and charm than anyone in KOTOR ever did. "

we wouldn't call you a liar, so we just call you a fool. nuclear winter had how many lines in the whole game? real development there. what was his background? what was his motivations (other than hating capitalist swine?) he weren't even as clever or funny as borris from Rocky and Bullwinkle... and poor natasha was just relegated to lousy ice queen status.

sorry, but you is a putz. you dislike games by bio for lord only knows what reason. complaints you make gainst bio games might have some small merit if you was at least honest and made same complaints ‘bout other games with same flaws.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Gromnir]

ff was unbalanced and short and camera sucked and it had virtually no role-play, but it was campy and colorful and it not take itself or the gere the least bit serious.

I'd like to point out to Gromnir that "genre" has an "n."

HA! Bad Grammar!

actually, that is a spelling/typo error... but thanks for pointing it out. no doubt you has earned yourself a cookie from fellow codex fanatics.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Transcendent One]

Hey Grommie, how many of you are there?

 

[Spazmo]

See, that's the thing. Bastila can go on for hundreds of words about the perils of the dark side and how she hates her mother and how she loves you and bla bla bla and I still arrive at the same conclusion: she's a totally whiny bitch. More or less the same with Carth.

With Nuclear Winter, though, just a couple lines from him have me hooked. He may be utterly one-dimensional, but that's how comic book characters are and that's his charm. He's way more interesting and entertaining than any NPC from KOTOR in spite of his simplicity.

As for not foreseeing the big plot twist, well, I really just wasn't expecting anything quite so stupid. The ambiguous identity of Revan (i.e. the mask) and the fact that it's Star Wars had me expecting a "MALAK IS YOUR BROTHER" deal, but goddamnit, the plot twist was so damn stupid that I just couldn't see it coming. Hell, I wouldn't have expected them to announce that my character was actually Kryten from Red Dwarf who stepped through a timehole, either, but that doesn't make it good writing.

we criticized kotor...

Oh, well, in that case, I guess you just do it to annoy me. I more or less figured that was it.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

About the plot twist in KotOR, I actually thought Bastilla was Revan through the first part of the game, because having the character be Revan would be rather stupid. Than again, I thought the whole thing with Darth Vader being Luke's dad was pretty stupid as well. The Luke = Darth Jr. thing wasn't really foreshadowed at all in the first movie, it was just tossed in haphazardly in Empire Strikes Back. Up until Return of the Jedi, a lot of people just didn't believe it because it was so piss poor.

But yeah, KotOR combat was dismal.

 

[Sol Invictus]

The Bullet was the most unbalanced character in the game. The moment I got him, it was game over for the enemy. Granted, he didn't do much damage compared to the radioactive guy, but his speed made up for all of his shortcomings, and then some. Having him and the radioactive guy on missions together was a surefire way to finish the game in a few hours with no losing whatsoever.

As for the characters in FF being 'superior' and 'more interesting' than the ones in KOTOR. I would have to disagree. FF did have some pretty colorful characters but really, how many lines did they have? They were all cookie cutter 'good guys' with a hint of dialogue and a dash of personality... and not much else. Minuteman was just Captain America with a revolutionary outfit, and his sidekick was Robin. Bullet was the Flash (and much like the Flash, he had very little to say) and so forth. KOTOR had more interesting, more fleshed out characters - HK47 and that old guy, for example.

 

[Gromnir]

About the plot twist in KotOR, I actually thought Bastilla was Revan through the first part of the game, because having the character be Revan would be rather stupid. Than again, I thought the whole thing with Darth Vader being Luke's dad was pretty stupid as well. The Luke = Darth Jr. thing wasn't really foreshadowed at all in the first movie, it was just tossed in haphazardly in Empire Strikes Back. Up until Return of the Jedi, a lot of people just didn't believe it because it was so piss poor.

you is, of course, free to dislike star wars. Gromnir is not a fan of star wars. however, fact remains that you poor suckers never realized why the plot twist was in kotor, or that it were mirroring the star wars plot twist.

personally, we is somewhat embarrassed for you.

as to spaz comments (excuses) concerning his defense o' nuclear winter in comparison to kotor npcs... we not really gotta say anything as we doubt even spaz really believes what he is saying. felt like he had to defend himself and just kinda grasped at the first thing that came to mind? is a s good an explanation as anything we s’pose.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Spazmo]

No, I just honestly think that Nuclear Winter is one of the funniest characters ever seen in a game. Why is that Gromnir always assumes my opinions are false and created to feed some percieved bias or to support an argument (this is my favourite) I don't agree with myself? I daresay some people need to understand different people have different opinions, even if we don't agree with them. When people come along and say "I LIKE NWN" or whatever, I don't tell them "no you don't, you're just saying you do to prove a point!" I accept that they like NWN and explain to them why I don't. Please don't take this as an "agree to disagree" copout (though, hell, there's no way you'll get me to like KOTOR more than Freedom Force and I doubt anyone will ever convince Gromnir of anything he hasn't already decided is right so we might as well). I just object to the dismissal of my very opinions on anything as a fabrication.

 

[Gromnir]

when a person tells us that nuclear winter, who maybe has 4 separate dialogues in an entire game (none of which you can respond to,) a character who is based on nothing more than a cliché, is better developed than the joinable npcs in kotor, we can't help but think you is talking out your arse.

if you tell us that toee implements charm right when nobody else has in a d&d game, we cannot help but wonder why you would suggest something so patently false. is not simply opinion. is factually incorrect.

ever talk to a lotr fan that tells you that tolkien's prose was just fine? they is a fan of tolkien, so they defend a ridiculous position and then support by saying that it is all just a matter o' opinion.

we not doubt that you liked ff and disliked kotor, but your reasons why you dislike one and not the other is mighty suspect. when these kinda things pile up 'nuff, and we see a trend rather than simply note as an aberration, we begin to make connections.

draw your own conclusions, as you no doubt will do whether we ask you to or not, but maybe try and be honest with yourself for once.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Spazmo]

That's it? That's your whole beef? A few factual errors that don't detract from the main point (good rules implementation in ToEE) and a few opinions that differ from your own and you start all this?

Geez, you're a lunatic.

 

[Gromnir]

"A few factual errors that don't detract from the main point (good rules implementation in ToEE) and a few opinions that differ from your own and you start all this?"

a few?

HHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAA!!!!!!

btw, is not that your opinions differ from ours. notice that we agree on numerous kotor flaws. your opinions do not match what you is complaining 'bout.

your dogged defense of toee, and your irrational dislike of bio games despite fact that you obviously like other crpgs with similar flaws.

is not one or two items... as we said,

"when these kinda things pile up 'nuff, and we see a trend rather than simply note as an aberration, we begin to make connections. "

your stinky pile has grown quite large... but again, hear or see what you wish... you always do.

HA! Good Fun!

p.s. just 'cause we points out inconstancies, Gromnir is a lunatic. very convenient for you. you kids pride yourselves on a “take no prisoners” attitude here… but Gromnir shows up and suddenly you whine worse than carth…

 

[Shevek]

I dont understand, how exactly does the implementation of a single spell (namely charm) open ToEE up to a large degree of scrutiny with respect to rules implementation? is it your assertion that ToEE did not implement the 3E DnD ruleset as well as another 3E title? If so, please elaborate.

Also, who is to say that could not find the characters of FF better done than those of KoTOR? What exactly is wrong with this assertion? Is a word count and the volume of dialog associated with each character the only means of determining quality?

 

[Spazmo]

I don't know that I "forgive" anything to Freedom Force as I don't find anything wrong with it. I don't really rate it as an RPG. Similarly, I can enjoy the Baldur's Gate games if not looking at them as RPGs. Heck, I've hardly ever posted anything here about Freedom Force because I think it has a very tenuous claim to RPG-dom. In this case, it's IGN who's calling it an RPG, not me. I just call it a good game.

ou kids pride yourselves on a “take no prisoners” attitude here… but Gromnir shows up and suddenly you whine worse than carth…

I just find it peculiar that whenever you appear, you seem to bitch at me because I didn't like KOTOR and like ToEE for reasons you think are fabricated by me. I'd say that's a trend.