Review G4techTV hates ToEE

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Temple of Elemental Evil; Troika Games

<a href=http://www.g4techtv.com>G4 TechTV</a> posted a <a href=http://www.g4techtv.com/feature.aspx?article_key=770>review</a> of a game apparently called <a href=http://www.troikagames.com/toee.htm>Dungeons & Dragons: Temple of Elemental Evil</a>, giving it <b>2/5</b> and bitching about frustrating interface and bugs.
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<blockquote>If you squint just right and view the screen out of the corner of your eye, you'll see the shadow of a very good game. As the first computer implementation of the Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 rule set, ToEE does an excellent job of translating the new pen-and-paper game. Troika also obtained the rights to the Greyhawk world of Gary Gygax, one of the most cherished and detailed fantasy settings this side of Middle-earth. Players guide a party of up to five characters (pre-generated or built with a detailed and satisfying creation system) through a series of quests in and around the eponymous temple. Although there are some side quests, most of the action is a dungeon crawl through the deceptively large temple. A large pool of mercenary and other non-playable characters (NPCs) are available to fill three other party slots.
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Unfortunately, even ignoring the bugs, ToEE has some serious problems. The minimal plot (superficially different based on your party's pre-chosen alignment) is largely superfluous, which is a shame given the setting. It's a dungeon crawl with a pretty face -- a poor use of the license. The world seems static and empty. NPCs, even those integral to the main story, have little to say of interest. Party banter, given its own toggle in the game options, consists of a handful of stock phrases coupled with a dozen vapid, sight-specific comments such as "This place will be hard to get into."</blockquote>Yep, ToEE's party banter sucked. Nobody stopped during a battle to tell me about some mental issues. No romances or leg humping either.
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[Anonymous]

It's a dungeon crawl with a pretty face -- a poor use of the license.

Note to G4: Play D&D already.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You do know this review was posted way, way back around the time ToEE was released, right? It's actually the second time they've submitted it to Blue's News after changing a word or two in the thing, calling it an "update". Hell, they don't even mention the first patch as being available for download.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I thought that crap sounded familiar, but the review said "written on Jun 3, 2004". I got from Google News, btw.

 

[Transcendent One]

Yep, ToEE's party banter sucked. Nobody stopped during a battle to tell me about some mental issues. No romances or leg humping either.

While I also dislike getting forced into the role of being a mental counsellor to bitches who expect me to listen to their whining (when I have far more reason to whine to them, oddly enough), ToEE would benefit from even some decent interaction between NPC's. And I'd even prefer being a mental counsellor to an NPC with well-written dialog than listening to generic one-liners with little coherence all day.

 

[Sol Invictus]

TOEE's dialogue was utterly bad. I don't care what you think about romances, leg humping or mental issues. There's just no point in defending the utterly horrible horrendousness that passed as dialogue in TOEE. It came off as wooden and not interesting in the least. It came off as awful. GIve me an NPC who discusses his mental issues every five seconds - I'll take it over ToEE's obvious lack of sentience.

It wasn't bad because it was written poorly. It was bad because there just wasn't enough of it to sound like anything more than some short exclamations made by a character in a children's cartoon apparently made sometime in the mid-1980s.

Protagonist: You are evil.
Villain: Yes I am.
Protagonist: I have come to stop you.
Villain: Hahaha. Good luck.
Protagonist: I will kill you now.
Villain: Don't kill me.
Protagonist: Now you die.
Villain: No!
Protagonist: Yes.

* game ends *

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks for sharing that with us, Exitium, I absolutely agree with your point, and think that highlighting words is fun. However,...

My comment was about party banter which is, imo, a separate category in itself. While it relies on dialogues and writing, I believe that it mostly depends on its mechanics: presentation, implementation, timing, etc. For example, KOTOR's party banter was criticized mostly for bad timing, bad presentation (*Carth looks like he has someting to say* What is it now, Carth? May I go to the washroom? I can't go in front of you, because I don't trust you), and bad implementation (tying stories to levels). I'd prefer ToEE's one-liners, some of which were nicely placed, btw, to all that constant bitching, whining, and complaining that became Bio's party trademark.

 

[Nightjed]

i liked fallout's party banter: "i wish i had a limit break" "say hello to my little friend!" and, the thing i loved the most, the sarcastic status window comments

Kotor's party banter sucked because the game forced you to listen at random times, if they had organized the banter so that it would happen during actual game events (related to the event of course, wtf cares about Bastila feeling horny while im in the middle of killing Rancors) instead of while you are doing your delivery boy quest of the day, it would have been much better and and that even allows you to change what chars say depending on which events you had them with you, which chars you have with you right now, how the last mission finished, etc AND you would have to play more than once to turn them all into the dark side

 

[Shevek]

I liked the part in KoTOR where I told the two Romeo and Juliet-like families the only way they would settle their differences is through blood and Ordo chimes in, "Finally, someone says what we've all been thinking!" Or this one point when I did something nice and HK-47 says, "Im so disappointed in you, Master." What would these be called, NPC dialog interjections I guess? Anywho, I liked these and had the game just been happy with these and the NPC quest dialogs being the only forced dialogs, it would have been perfect (none of this, so and so looks at me funny when Im about to slay a rancor). I do agree the Carth dialogs were just bad (no fault to the voice actor - they were just totally inorganic), Bastilla was quite bleh, Juhani seemed kinda neet at first but then appeared more and more as an odd caricature rather than a character, and it would have been nice if the dialogs werent forced on you (I initiated dialogs on the Ebon Hawk before they got a chance to interupt me just so they wouldnt break immersion). Still, the dialog was pretty damn good in KoTOR overall and though the cheezy romances ("kiss me you babbling fool;" "oh, my..!" -ugh, terrible) and other issues certainly detracted some from the title, I think the dialog was a net win and a definate improvement over BG2. Personally, I dont think ToEE writing and voicing was utter garbage (it was a mixed bag; inet discussions tend to ignore the well voiced/written characters and focus mostly on the bad). That being said, we really shouldnt slam KoTOR for dialog as it was done pretty well.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I liked the part in KoTOR where I told the two Romeo and Juliet-like families the only way they would settle their differences is through blood and Ordo chimes in, "Finally, someone says what we've all been thinking!" Or this one point when I did something nice and HK-47 says, "Im so disappointed in you, Master." What would these be called?

One liners :wink:

That being said, we really shouldnt slam KoTOR for dialog as it was done pretty well.

I don't think that anyone's ever complained about KOTOR's dialogues here.

 

[Spazmo]

I do--constantly. Hell, many hate Bastila and Carth for their constant whiny garbage. There's certainly been no lack of complaining about dialog in KOTOR. That said, most of it was certainly well written and stuff.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Oh, that. That, I believe, is a part of the party banter thingy, since, like you said, most of Kotor's dialogues were well written. It's just somehow Bio got that stupid idea that whiny and bitchy party members are cool and angsty teens would never get enough of them. The sad thing is Bio wasn't wrong on that.

 

[Volourn]

"That said, most of it was certainly well written and stuff."

What the fook? Since when does Spaz compliment BIO's writing? Unless I missed it before; this is a first! WOWSERS! :shock:

 

[Spazmo]

It's not the writing that bugs me--it's what they're writing. The BioWare writers certainly have a capable grasp of the English language

 

[Transcendent One]

I didn't mind Bastila too much, but Carth was such a piece of shit that it made me glad that his homeworld got bombed. He deserved it

 

[Dhruin]

The sad thing is Bio wasn't wrong on that.

And there's the rub.

 

[Sol Invictus]

In my game he never found his son, either - and I always made him kill the Admiral. It felt good making him open himself to anger and hatred after years of wanting to be someone else.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Hot keys are universal, so making "H" default to a healing spell for your cleric precludes the key from being useful for any other character. Poor path finding and the absence of destination assignment in the mini-map turn character navigation into a chore in larger locations.

I agree with the entire review except for this bit. I'd have preferred hot keys to be truly universal, in that you set them once and they remained that way for the entire game, even if you started again. Instead, if you start over, you have to re-assign all your damn hot keys...

While I'm here, assinging a hot key to "Break Free" for web attacks or frog grapples is bugged too... You can assign a key to it, but pressing the key doesn't work. So you have to clunk through the radial menu (which is decent in design, but slow in implementation).

I've never played KOTOR, so I won't get involved in that conversation.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

Eh, the review's pretty accurate.

ToEE sucked as an RPG, but had the best combat I've ever experienced in a fantasy game. I think it deserves some credit for that.

 

[Anonymous]

I give it credit for being a D&D game that's acutally a D&D game.

I dunno, I didnt even know the hotkeys exsisted too, haha. I was very used to just using the radial menu.

 

[Country_Gravy]

Eh, the review's pretty accurate.

ToEE sucked as an RPG, but had the best combat I've ever experienced in a fantasy game. I think it deserves some credit for that.

I agree. I think that if troika used this game engine to make another game and added more story, locations, and more of just about everything else they would have a bonified hit on their hands. It just needs more content and polish and it would turn into one of the best RPGs ever.

That's right. I said EVER! :shock:

 

[Ausir]

I agree, they need more Polish .

 

[Sammael]

No sane publisher is going to give them seven years to polish their games, and I doubt they'd be able to accomplish that in a smaller time period.

 

[Voss]

I had this misfortune of seeing G4's review show, Judgement Day, this weekend.
It's sadly even more amateurish and lame than TechTV's X-play. In fact it makes X-play seem funny and almost knowledgable.

 

[taks]

No sane publisher is going to give them seven years to polish their games, and I doubt they'd be able to accomplish that in a smaller time period.

lol!

taks