Editorial Mordin Solus: The New Genophage

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: BioWare; Mass Effect 2

<p>Shamous Young of Twenty Sided <a href="http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=9043" target="_blank">talks about</a> Mordin Solus.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>In the end you get to make a couple of interesting decisions. You can kill Maelon or let him go. You can erase genophage cure or keep the data for later. The latter is something I wished the game had given us in the first game with regards to the Rachni queen: Spare her life, but <em>not</em> turn her loose. I&rsquo;m very glad the game didn&rsquo;t make us choose between &ldquo;destroy cure&rdquo; and &ldquo;release cure&rdquo;. It&rsquo;s nice to be able to play cautious, humble Shepard who realizes he doesn&rsquo;t have all the answers and shouldn&rsquo;t go around making moral decisions for the rest of the galaxy.</p>
<p>It&rsquo;s a solid, thought-provoking story that enriches both the character and the setting. It uses the established Mass Effect backstory as a launching point for an interesting discussion, but is subtle enough to let the player draw their own conclusions in the end.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.rpgwatch.com/#15787">RPGWatch</a></p>

 

[nFn]

 

[Trash]

ME2 was pretty cool and that was indeed one of the better quests in it.

 

[Chateaubryan]

Sorry, but this is as subtle as two drunk politictards arguing in a bar.

 

[Sceptic]

Mordin was the best NPC in the game by far (not that he had much competition) and this quest is the best one in the game. But subtle? there's nothing remotely subtle about it. Maelon has a big "I am very butthurt about Mordin and the genophage" sign flashing over his head, which is a shame because with better writing they could've made him be able to justify himself as well as Mordin and therefore create a truly interesting moral dilemma. That said having a third option (don't destroy AND don't release), especially in a Bioware game, was very nice, though it also seems like the easy way out. Afraid of negative consequences should you choose to either destroy or release? just hold on to it and postpone the decision!

 

[Jaedar]

I like legion better. His loyalty quest MORAL DILEMMA is also superior.

 

[Drakron]

... The latter is something I wished the game had given us in the first game with regards to the Rachni queen: Spare her life, but <em>not</em> turn her loose.
...

How would that work? She was stuck in a containment tube in a lab so he saying "we should allow the company that is owned by Saren to keep the sentient being so they can keep doing whatever they were doing with her" that is kinda WORST that killing her all things considering unless he wanted for to keep her in the Normandy trunk.

What a fucking moron.

 

[Begriffenfeldt]

So I guess this is C&C, Bioware-style: Buy game, make choice, buy next game for consequence.

 

[Alex]

At first I thought this was a nonsense post, because none of the words seemed to make sense (you know, like in a Lewis Carroll poem?).

 

[waywardOne]

it was bullshit. no scientist, and certainly not mordin, would trash years of data that would be otherwise unattainable. bioware invents these ridiculous situations without explanation so that selecting A or B has no real effect other than an extra conversation in the next game.

 

[Drakron]

it was bullshit. no scientist, and certainly not mordin, would trash years of data that would be otherwise unattainable.

Two things.

First, its a potential cure for the genophage as Mordin have no interest on curing the genophage.

Second, Mordin is a very ethical person (as the loyalty quest hammers) as the way to achieve that data is un-ethical.

Besides Mordin was simply going to destroy it as it could undo the genophage and thrown things back as they were, its well within how Mordin is as no matter how much you could complain about the genephage he would stick to his idea that it was the RIGHT choice considering what could be done at that stage, the best you can do is make him for one moment CONSIDER that it was wrong.

What do you suggest he would do? save the data for what purpose ... to cure the Korgan so there would be like the Korgan Rebellions again? He is pretty CLEAR how things would end as ... its genophage or genocide.

Mordin is not SCIENCE above all things, if that was true when would be running a clinic on Omega?

 

[waywardOne]

so the only thing that could be gained is specific genophage knowledge? you understand that a significant amount of discoveries are accidental or tangetial to the targeted research? it's batshit insane either way to throw away data simply because there's a potential use or misuse. science doesn't attach invented morality to data.

also the genophage wasn't a one-shot deal, fire & forget so to speak. they had (and will have) to keep testing to make sure it's not mutating into ineffectiveness and keep re-upping the disease/virus. if nothing else, this data is fresher and possibly more extensive than the last collection mordin was involved with and would be unbelievable useful for the next inspection/infection.

and so on about that.

mordin was running a clininc because he's retired special ops with a brilliant medical mind who's not exactly the relaxing on the beach kind of personality.

 

[thesheeep]

You're mixing assumptions about medicine & science and your own opinion into some kind of "truth" and applying that to a Sci-Fi (!!) game.

I don't think that works too good.

 

[Grunker]

(not that he had much competition)

How so? Legion, Grunt, Samara/Morinth, Thane, Jack and Garrus are all pretty fucking solid characters. Good writing in all of them, good quests for some of them.

This game is at its strongest in the character-department.

 

[waywardOne]

You're mixing assumptions about medicine & science and your own opinion into some kind of "truth" and applying that to a Sci-Fi (!!) game.

I don't think that works too good.

shut the fuck up. why waste time spewing nihilistic, everything's-relative crap?

you care to dispute anything specific or can i go ahead and ignore any posts from you as lacking content and worth?

 

[Sceptic]

it's batshit insane either way to throw away data simply because there's a potential use or misuse. science doesn't attach invented morality to data.

Ever heard of Bioethics? It's pretty big in the scientific community. Guess what it's about.

mordin was running a clininc because he's retired special ops with a brilliant medical mind who's not exactly the relaxing on the beach kind of personality.

Erm no. He very specifically says he started the clinic because he needed something much more down to earth after the whole genophage thing. Elsewhere he mentions that he finds he needs to connect to people directly in order to not lose perspective. I don't think he says it out loud but it's pretty heavily implied his clinic work is to overcome any potential guilt he might feel at having made the genophage. He also makes the distinction a few times between the genophage being something that HAD to be done and the genophage being a "good" thing.

Legion, Grunt, Samara/Morinth, Thane, Jack and Garrus are all pretty fucking solid characters. Good writing in all of them, good quests for some of them.

Legion was OK, his two problems are that a) you get him waaaaaaaay too late and if you're playing the game to save everyone you'll miss most of his conversations, and b) everything he says retcons the previous game. While this may be a good thing (the geth in ME1 were as interesting as cardboard) it's still very awkward. Samara's pretty interesting, she's a Lawful Good that's so lawful that it's hard to still perceive her as good. Thane, Jack and Garrus are pretty one-note, Grunt is a fucking awful character and a carbon copy of Black Whirlwind from JE. And why Bioware decided to force you to take these 2 in act 1 I'll never understand. As for their loyalty missions, Thane's is fucking awful (especially since it's one of 2 or 3 non-combat missions), Grunt's is pretty meh, Samara's is ruined by atrocious writing. Garrus's is pretty good at the last 5 minutes, once you get past the interminable combat. The others play exactly like every other shooting segment in the game, with the exception of some terrible writing in Jack's that makes her even LESS likeable than she was before. Legion's sets up an interesting moral dilemma but then doesn't really do anything with it.

The game is at its strongest in character development, but that's mainly because it fucks up everything else so badly. And while char development is, all in all, good, it's extremely uneven.

 

[Drakron]

True but Jacob is pretty bad as I dont think they know WERE to take the character as even Lair of the Shadow Broker ended up doing nothing with him interesting on the dossiers.

Also I dont think Jack was meant to be likable, she is a pretty horrible person and not taken to the extreme were its became "comical evil".

As for Grunt ... true, then again he is a child as the dossier makes him to be so it can be excused for a bit, Wrex was not that much better.

Also I really like Legion, I have to say that I did not think they could add a Geth as a joinable character but they did pulled it off quite well, also I have no complains about the Geth were I think their characterization is very well done, I dont think he retcon much, we barely knew anything about the Geth to start with.

Also Thane is pretty much ridding on the alien aspect of him, its been written as a character to appeal to female players anyway.

 

[Sceptic]

True but Jacob is pretty bad as I dont think they know WERE to take the character as even Lair of the Shadow Broker ended up doing nothing with him interesting on the dossiers.

Oh I agree that Jacob's a terrible character. When I said "uneven" at the end of my last post I was actually thinking of Mordin vs Jacob more than anything. Jacob could've been so much more with his background, his Alliance almost-but-not-quite grudge and him being black without being the token black character. But his characterization spirals into retardo the moment he gets on the Normandy and his loyalty mission made me want to punch him repeatedly. It's funny that Miranda is the complete opposite: she starts off as a complete bitch but once you talk to her a bit and gain her respect she completely changes.

Also I dont think Jack was meant to be likable, she is a pretty horrible person and not taken to the extreme were its became "comical evil".

She's taken into another extreme, namely the "badass fan service". I mean she's wearing NOTHING FFS (and no, the flimsy straps that barely cover her nipples don't count). And she's supposedly this awesomely powerful character in cutscenes yet she sucks if you take her along as a companion. She's also a fucking idiot, as demonstarted by her comments throughout her loyalty mission. Really my gripe with her isn't just that she's unlikable; if a character is meant to be unlikable, then you had better do one of two things: either make her so good that I'd be willing to put up with her personality, or make her optional entirely. That I MUST take her with me even though she sucks outside cutscenes AND is such a bitch I wanted to throw her into an airlock is just bad.

As for Grunt ... true, then again he is a child as the dossier makes him to be so it can be excused for a bit, Wrex was not that much better.

Wrex was much better actually. He had the same tough guy attitude, the same "we are Krogan" mentality, yet there was the underlying cynicism and outright desperation at where his species was heading. He could've certainly used better writing, but the underlying idea of the member of a warrior race who sees the problem but doesn't know what to do about it because he knows it's in their nature is far more interesting than "HURR ME CRUSH YOU". At least with Grunt you don't HAVE to take him along (even though you STILL have to do the recruitment mission), unlike Jack, and there's a pretty good argument why you wouldn't want to.

Also I really like Legion

I do too. My problem with him isn't really with his writing or his character, it's with the way his recruitment is structured. They gave him a ton of conversations but unless you purposefully gimp yourself you'll see 2 or 3 before the game ends. They really should've given the option to postpone the installation of the IFF so you could do more missions/assignments before the endgame sequence kicks off, or made a different mechanism to get conversations out of him.

Also Thane is pretty much ridding on the alien aspect of him, its been written as a character to appeal to female players anyway.

Thane's... OK I guess. He's far too emo and there's far too much melodrama around him. For all the improvements in ME2 writing when it comes to the characters, Bioware SUCKS at melodrama.

 

[thesheeep]

shut the fuck up. why waste time spewing nihilistic, everything's-relative crap?

Well, how about.. because almost everything on this forum is opinion and therefore, relative. Nihilistic? I wonder where you got that from.

you care to dispute anything specific

Sure, if it makes you feel better. I mean, i didn't want to hurt your feelings, eh?

you understand that a significant amount of discoveries are accidental or tangetial to the targeted research?

Assumption. Of course, this is the case for some researches, especially in the past. But today, or even in the future? A significant amount?
I don't think so. Prove it.

it's batshit insane either way to throw away data simply because there's a potential use or misuse.

Opinion. I would do exactly that in some cases.

science doesn't attach invented morality to data.

Assumption. And wrong. Many do. There are books about exactly that, by scientists (and for scientists, in some cases).

also the genophage wasn't a one-shot deal, fire & forget so to speak. they had (and will have) to keep testing to make sure it's not mutating into ineffectiveness and keep re-upping the disease/virus.

Assumption. Do they? Maybe this virus is perfect, mutating and changing so it can always fulfill its mission (as long as the cure is not applied).
Maybe it works totally different.
Who knows? I don't. You don't. But at least I know that I don't...

if nothing else, this data is fresher and possibly more extensive than the last collection mordin was involved with and would be unbelievable useful for the next inspection/infection.

Assumption. Realistic assumption, but still.

mordin was running a clininc because he's retired special ops with a brilliant medical mind who's not exactly the relaxing on the beach kind of personality.

I can only agree with that. But I don't know if that is an assumption or proven by Mordin himself.


You know, my whole problem was not that you wrote complete bullshit. Everyone is free to do that. My problem was that you were trying to make a point with nothing but assumptions and opinion and not a single fact.
If you don't want people to take you serious, fine. But don't blame me for going all Captain Obvious over your posts.

 

[Drakron]

Well Jacob faults might lie with him being the main character on that iShit game, Mass Effect Galaxy

They expect for players to know about him as many would not have a clue ... Garrus kinda suffers from the same issue but its a ME1 character so the assumption players have known him can be safely made, still we end with pretty much the same "character quest" in ME2 that was in ME1.

In the end he is just ... there, Miranda is a lot better because in the end it ends up somewhat personal even if NOT doing the romance.

Tali is a bit the same but now have a proper quest that shown the Migrant Fleet as Quarian society so there is a higher impact that Garrus that really would had highlighted Turian but I suspect they did not wanted for to mirror Tali loyalty quest.

Note, you dont have to take Jack besides in her loyalty mission ... even the Shield in the Suicide Mission can be done my Miranda or Samara, its a bit fun taking her in Miranda Loyalty Quest as she does have unique dialog on it but you can just leave her in the bottom of the ship, I rarely use her.

Oh Legion, like Tali were supposed to be recruited much sooner ... the IFF timing really screws up Legion.