4X

[MetalCraze]

So what I need is a recommendation of a game that can hold its own against such 4X titans as Alpha Centauri and Master of Orion 2.

How is Civilization 3? I know it's still inferior to AC (obviously because it doesn't have unit constructor and awesome narrative part) and I don't like its messy looks whereas Civ1, Civ2 and AC had clean art design. And in terms of diplomacy - is it as rich as AC and did they fix AC's mistake where before you can demand something out of your enemy during war you first had to make a blood truce with him (because the game was basically forcing you to) - and later when the enemy refused to do something you wanted you had to start the war again which of course ruined your diplomatic image.

What about Alien Crossfire? Never tried it because I've heard the new factions lack character, balance is a bit off and as I can see that alien plot is just silly and totally ruins original mysterious lore.

And what is with Pax Imperia 2? I'll probably hate its real-time part but I've heard it has a very nice customization of many things and is really close to MOO2 in terms of possibilities.

Some more or less in-depth descriptions are welcome, as do other recommendations.

 

[NiM82]

Sword of the Stars + Addons FTW, as far as MOO alikes go.

+ 6 unique races, with unique travel systems
+ Blind research/randomized tech trees
+ Lots of scope for interesting diplo with the addons, can orgaise attacks with allies and specify a target and turn for them to attack it. To communicate with races you need to research them specifically.
+ Random Encounters, Random Events - Some really/neat awesome stuff
+ Brilliant optional RT tactical combat system, cool ship designer.
+ R&D Risks, you can be the maker of your own desctruction (think Skynet)
+ Need to supply fleets, keep them fuelled/maintained etc.
+ 3D Universe

- No campaign/story mode
- Streamlined planet control, all attention went into the fleet side (no great loss imo)

Gal Civ 2 is pretty simplistic/fun time filler, but nothing really remarkable there. I think I had more fun simply building ships in the editor than actually playing the game.

 

[circ]

SoTS bored the crap out of me. I prefer good old MoO 1.

 

[MetalCraze]

+ Lots of scope for interesting diplo with the addons, can orgaise attacks with allies and specify a target and turn for them to attack it. To communicate with races you need to research them specifically.

This is what I miss in Alpha Centauri very much. At time allies can attack pretty organized and even supply me with units, but at other times they may just sit idle on their territory.

Gal Civ 2 is pretty simplistic/fun time filler, but nothing really remarkable there. I think I had more fun simply building ships in the editor than actually playing the game.

True that. I have GalCiv2 and while at first it was OK - the more I play it the more I find it inferior to AC in every aspect. It simply lacks soul and races with the character and I don't like "traits" in the game at all - there is not a single punishing "trait", all reward you with something. Guess I'm looking for building my nation with both strong sides and flaws in such games.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I'll also vote for Sword of the Stars complete pack. Only got it relatively recently, but I've been impressed by it.

I'd also recommend Civ 4. Not sure what it is, but I enjoy it a hell of a lot more than Civ 3, which was the only Civ I actually kind of disliked. Not counting the console Civ since I haven't played it yet. Anyway, I enjoy some of the simplifications of Civ 4 (Way pollution and corruption is handled most importantly) and I enjoy some of the tweaks such as the combat (Much, MUCH better combat) and diplomacy. Almost hate to call it my favorite Civ game since I've played 2 more I believe, but I really did like it.

I wouldn't suggest galciv2. Even though I loved MoO 1 and 2 and galciv2 has more similarities with them than Sword of the Stars does, I just couldn't get into it. Played one game of it and didn't really have a good time and never played it again.

Also wouldn't suggest Sins of a Solar Empire. Starts out kinda cool, but it's more shallow than SotS and oddly enough even though it's real time, slower. A game of SotS will take longer than a SoaSE game, but it will feel more exciting while it's being played, since you can just keep ending turns until you get to something you want to do, whereas your downtime in SoaSE involves floating around in space until your fleets are in position or that research is done. SoaSE reminds me most of the old RTS game Conquest: Frontier Wars, only slower and less fun.

 

[Jasede]

This thread is going to make me try out Sword of the Stars; does it have system requirements?

And I'd like to recommend Master of Magic to you, Skyway, which I'd put squarely into a league with Master of Orion 2 and SMAC. It's a fantasy-based union of Civilization and Colonization, except better, with as much detail as MoO 2, and infinite replayability.

 

[racofer]

This thread is going to make me try out Sword of the Stars; does it have system requirements?

Nope, it runs with computer turned off.

 

[Jasede]

asfghrgh

 

[Shuma]

How is the combat in SotS? Is it interesting or is it just a matter of whoever has the most ships / highest tech?

 

[Zeus]

I'd like to recommend Master of Magic to you, Skyway, which I'd put squarely into a league with Master of Orion 2 and SMAC. It's a fantasy-based union of Civilization and Colonization, except better, with as much detail as MoO 2, and infinite replayability.

I'll second that emotion.

 

[Pegultagol]

Sword of the Stars on Steam at $16.00.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Interesting, though you're generally best off mostly automating it in my very limited experience. You usually want to give a fleet-wide (Or selected group-wide, if you have non-combat ships like tankers in the battle) orders like engage at range or fight up close.\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS4XJkPBrR0
There's a decent enough example of a flashy battle. Some humans getting slaughtered by space dolphins.

One kind of cool thing about SotS, the shots are "Simmed", like Supreme Commander. As in, it's not rolling dice behind the scenes, it's shooting at things as best it can, and if other ships get in the way of the shots, they'll be hit, and if the shots miss, they miss. Makes the space battles much more satisfying than in SoaSE, where basically every shot hit.
You can also autoresolve battles if you're so inclined.

Then for information on the ships, tech and numbers help, obviously, but it's not everything. There are certain defenses that are particularly good against certain weapons, which can change how a battle goes for you. Individual turrets and subsystems can be destroyed, so if you're up against a huge capital ship and don't have one of your own, you can try to cripple it with faster, more numerous smaller ships. If a ship has shields/deflectors, you can try to knock out the generator. Different weapons have different strengths when used different ways. Projectile weapons might be less accurate and damaging than some lasers, but they can knock ships around when they hit, fucking with the ship's accuracy with simmed weapons. Missiles are long range, generally very accurate, and do good damage, but can be shot and destroyed mid-flight. Etc etc.
Also might depend on who has a command ship or the BETTER command ship. You're limited to a finite amount of ships in an engagement at a time, and having a command ship in play increases this number. It also lets you adjust the order your reinforcements come in, and set formations for your fleet so they don't all jump in in a line.
Finally, here's the tutorial movie for combat, to explain things a bit more. http://sots.rorschach.net/Tactical_Comb ... ough_Video

And unrelated to the combat but I just want to mention it, there are some particularly cool random encounters in SotS, such as... Stars start going out. WHAT IS HAPPENING? ARE MULTI-HEADED SPACE DICKS SLAPPING SUN AND STAR OH GOD WHERE ARE THE HEAVEANS?

 

[Jasede]

I'll get it tomorrow, it better not suck...

I honestly remember buying GalCiv 2 Collector's Edition for 50 Euros, all happy, thinking "Yay! A GOOD Master of Orion 2 clone!!", and finding something awfully cold and sterile. It's likely good for some, but not for me. I played it once, then uninstalled it.

I hope Sword of the Stars has some "love" to it- different races, things to do, random encounters... heroes would be perfect, like in MoO 2, but I'll settle for units gaining experience in combat.

 

[circ]

Oh Sins of a Solar Empire. Bleh, that's the one that sucked. It's been a while since I tried Sword of the Stars. For me it was buggy and had a confusing interface for me to play it longer than 30 mins. At which point it probably crashed and I'd had enough.

 

[Damned Registrations]

If you try out Civ 4 make sure to try the FFH mod. Awesome stuff in there. One of my favourite wins involved creating a massively wealthy empire then spending an obscene amount of money to rush some wonders and basically summon a god to go on a rampage. Another was capturing some elephants early on and stomping on everyone in the bronze age with a few war elephants.

 

[Seboss]

Wow, there have been a lot of discussion around Sword of the Stars lately. Nice...

I hope Sword of the Stars has some "love" to it- different races, things to do, random encounters... heroes would be perfect, like in MoO 2, but I'll settle for units gaining experience in combat.

The main difference between races is interstellar travel.
Humans use pre-defined node lines and are super fast, the Zuuls can tore nodelines between stars that only stand for a limited amount of time, Tarkas and Liirs can go anywhere but are super slow, Hivers are even slower but can set up gates that allows instantaneous travel regardless of distance but for a limited tonnage per turn etc...
Each race gets a handful of race-specific techs and ship sections. Ship hulls have different characteristics too (tactical speed, maneuverability, armor...).
And that's about it.

There is a dozen or so random encounters and events. Bug swarms, meteorites strike, slavers etc...
SotS doesn't have any kind of experience or heroes system. It tries very hard to keep micromanagement to a minimum, and I think experience and heroes go against that principle.

 

[NiM82]

For background fluff on the races, there's detailed notes in the manual and on the excellent wiki, there's scarce little in the game though (they expect you to read the manual), so if that kinda stuff floats your boat just be sure to read up on them first, or they will seem a bit lifeless/dull.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Another thing worth mentioning, the randomized tech-tree. Definitely adds some spice to each game.
http://chariot.nickersonm.com/ANY_TechTree.html

 

[ricolikesrice]

...

get Civ4, alone Fall from Heaven 2 is MORE than worth it. best thing since Master of Magic, of which it is highly influenced. highly replayable, unique factions to play, shittons of stuff to find out and play with. and if that isnt enough, try the Orbis modmod which adds even more interesting content to FFH2.

only drawbacks are some occasional crashes (with orbis, FFH2 is pretty stable these days) and that the AI isnt really good with all the new mechanics that set FFH2 apart from civ4.

....then again the AI is still better than the one shipped with total war games :p

dont mistake FFH2 for a fantasy civ 4 reskin, its alot more than that.

since MoM is my single most favourite game i ve been praying for a worthy sequel since over 10 years .... and all the stuff that got recommended (like AoW:SM) didnt do it for me ..... only FFH2 came close (no, it still isnt MoM-awesome )

 

[MetalCraze]

And I'd like to recommend Master of Magic to you, Skyway, which I'd put squarely into a league with Master of Orion 2 and SMAC. It's a fantasy-based union of Civilization and Colonization, except better, with as much detail as MoO 2, and infinite replayability.

Unfortunately I have Master of Magic, great game, but I've played it.

I honestly remember buying GalCiv 2 Collector's Edition for 50 Euros, all happy, thinking "Yay! A GOOD Master of Orion 2 clone!!", and finding something awfully cold and sterile. It's likely good for some, but not for me. I played it once, then uninstalled it.

Actually it was Civilization in space, except without all the awesome stuff.


Hmm many mentions of SotS. I hope it changed during this time to a better side, then again I only played the demo a few years ago, wasn't too impressed.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Well damn, all of this talk about SotS... it looks like I'll have to get it. Sounds kind of like TW in SPACE!!!

 

[entertainer]

Time to torrent SotS again!

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Re: ...

get Civ4, alone Fall from Heaven 2 is MORE than worth it. best thing since Master of Magic, of which it is highly influenced. highly replayable, unique factions to play, shittons of stuff to find out and play with. and if that isnt enough, try the Orbis modmod which adds even more interesting content to FFH2.

only drawbacks are some occasional crashes (with orbis, FFH2 is pretty stable these days) and that the AI isnt really good with all the new mechanics that set FFH2 apart from civ4.

FfH is in a bit of a sorry state right now. Recently, Civ4 was unexpectedly patched while Kael, FfH's developer, was extremely busy with real life. The patch flat out broke FfH and Kael only had time to release a quick, nigger rigged update which let FfH run, but introduced a bunch of really bad bugs. Because these are being fixed at a slow pace, and because most of the community hasn't downloaded the new Civ4 patch and its corresponding FfH update, the community members who mod FfH have lost heart and are suspending their work until it looks like FfH will be fully supported and fixed again.

Take the AI. There are a couple of pretty good AI enhancement mods to FfH.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=320086
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=323536

...except, neither is compatible with the current version of FfH. Both are built around the version from right before the sudden Civ4 patch, which is no longer available to someone new getting into the game (they're forced to run the latest civ4 patch, and thus, download the most recent version of FfH), and the people making the AI enhancements seem to still be interested in continuing their work, but only for the before-patch version. There don't seem to be plans to update the AI mods to the current version. This is fine for regulars who are holding on to the older version, but any prospective new players get fucked over.

tl;dr FfH is usually great for reasons already covered, but now is the absolute worst possible time to get into it. Wait on it, if it sounds interesting to you.

 

[Destroid]

SotS is really not like TW in space at all. Unless something has changed VERY drastically since all the expansions came out. Personally I found the original pretty bad, with basic empire management and uninteresting tactical combat, but the expansions do sound interesting so maybe I shall give them a try.

 

[ricolikesrice]

eh shit, just a few hours i downloaded the new 3.19 patch, the new FFH patch and the new orbis patch ...... is it really that bad in terms of crashes ? if so i guess i m lucky i still have the older versions and will revert back to them.