Interview Feargus talks about NWN 2 the action RPG

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Neverwinter Nights 2; Obsidian Entertainment

<b>Feargus Urquhart</b>, who has become very <a href=http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5066>popular</a> lately, has added another <a href=http://www.gamepro.com/computer/pc/games/features/37596.shtml>interview</a> to his PR collection.
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<blockquote>On the multiplayer perspective, when we reacquainted ourselves with the first Neverwinter, we found that you just didn't seem to get access to all the things you wanted to do fast enough. Your characters could do all these cool things, get new feats as you go up in levels, but you just couldn't get access to them--it was always like you had to hotkey everything and use multiple function keys. So we're trying come up with key mechanisms to give players direct access to the feats they want to use. An example that I was kind of using was instead of point-and-click, a more third-person view than isometric, using the "WASD" keyboard to control the character in the world. When they're facing a monster and double click the forward key (W) that will do like a power attack. Some people will criticize that and say, "You're making it more like an action game." But we're not making it more into an action game; it's something it already does, but you now have better access to it. And so we want to have things like that. Also, because a lot of us play MMOs, we're looking at targeting things, so you can kinda run around targeting that creature--that'll great for a spell caster--you wouldn't have to worry about constantly clicking. You could just fireball where you were previously targeting so it leaves you free to move around and combat better. I guess they make sense in single player as well but it's more useful for multiplayer because people aren't pausing the game and there's a lot more going on.</blockquote>
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And some people were afraid that NWN2 is going to suck...
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Thanks, <b>Pope_Viper</b>!

 

[Spazmo]

"On the multiplayer perspective, when we reacquainted ourselves with the first Neverwinter, we found that you just didn't seem to get access to all the things you wanted to do fast enough."

Nonsense, Fearg, hitting alt + F4 will get you where you really want to go with NWN ASAP. In extreme cases, that little button next to "POWER" on your case will do it, too.

 

[FrankHorrigan]

It was only a matter of time before his mouth got him into trouble again, i was thinking his stupid gene would kick in soon, but seriously, what the fuck is he talking about, personaly i didnt think much of NWN but NWN2: Dark Alliance! will be so much worse.

How does "using the "WASD" keyboard to control the character in the world" equate to "something it already does, but you now have better access to it" . How can anyone with a functioning brain say a WASD system gives you better access when you can control everything with the mouse in an isometric system? Also how can he reconcile changing from isometric to third person with his comment "We don't want to try to screw that up by doing something radically different" ? My interest just went from medium to non existant.

 

[Human Shield]

He strikes out.

You can already program up on 36 hotkeys; from items, text messages, spells, or attacks. It isn't enough for a heavy spellcaster, the game should have better access then the stupid radial menu but combo attack moves?

Down - Down/Right - Right = MAGIC MISSILE!! 20 HIT COMBO!!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yes, running in circles and casting fireballs sounds very cool.

Btw, don't miss "Fallout fans are the worst fans there are" comment. Thanks, Feargus, we love you too.

 

[plin]

Yes, running in circles and casting fireballs sounds very cool.

Btw, don't miss "Fallout fans are the worst fans there are" comment. Thanks, Feargus, we love you too.

haha, I had a good laugh with what Pope_viper said at NMA to that comment.
"Brutal honesty must be offensive to him."


And to you and your buddies, friend.

Don't forget all the "fuck you fergie"'s.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Oh, goddamnit, Feargus.. Dungeon Lords is already in the works. Why make NWN2 in to Dungeons & Dragons Lords?

Sorry, but which is more accessible? Hitting the F2 for a power attack or tapping the W twice? I think it's rather obvious that the function key works better than the WASD Streetfighter method. All you have to do is provide options in the combat to make it more interesting, and you're going to either have to limit those options with the WASD Streetfighter method or end up with silly special move bullshit. WW+A+Half-Moon-Right+S stuff would just be annoyingly stupid in a PC D&D game.

 

[DamnElfGirl]

I do like having the option to move around and target foes effectively with the keyboard. I don't like mouse-based movement. Not so sure about the combo moves thingie, though.

 

[FrankHorrigan]

You should try Gothic then if you havent already... but it justs wrong in a d&d rpg, it would be like Captain Aheb turning up at a save the whales meet.

 

[Vault Dweller]

And to you and your buddies, friend.

Don't forget all the "fuck you fergie"'s.

First of all, I've never said "fuck you fergie", second, there is a huge difference between fans and developers/producers, and third, whatever criticism the Fallout fans had (other then "you suck" comments) was justified.

 

[Voss]

Between the menu and the function keys...
no, sorry. even if its just double tapping keys, it makes no sense to change to this. why would power attack be hitting forward twice? Wouldn't that be something movement related?
It isn't clearer, it isn't more accesible, and its functionally a step backwards from the existing system.

And the WASD thing. Gods. Ooh you don't have to click the mouse to move. But you have to tap (or hold) keys to move, clearly superior on some level that makes sense to someone, I'm sure.

If the player can assign hotkeys that make sense to them and the character they're playing, then fine.

And its a stupid example anyway. Power Attack is something you set for at least a round. -x to hit, +x to damage. Its an on/off situation- for the entire round at least, not a single strike. I would've hoped that they would have improved it over NWN 1 (when it turned off if you manually moved, or finished all opponents) but instead it sounds like Fergie is going to make it even worse. Joy.

 

[plin]

And to you and your buddies, friend.

Don't forget all the "fuck you fergie"'s.

First of all, I've never said "fuck you fergie", second, there is a huge difference between fans and developers/producers, and third, whatever criticism the Fallout fans had (other then "you suck" comments) was justified.

It wasn't directed at you (if anyone, it's to Viper and the NMA bunch), I just thought it was funny. I quoted you because you were on subject with it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ok, but my point still stands. When a guy who oversaw one game and produced another in an acclaimed game series, that still sells because of the fans support, says in an interview that these fans are the worst, that doesn't sound right and there is no excuse for that.

 

[Stark]

And the WASD thing. Gods. Ooh you don't have to click the mouse to move. But you have to tap (or hold) keys to move, clearly superior on some level that makes sense to someone, I'm sure.

from what i read it makes sense to me. you move around using WASD, freeing your mouse to do other stuff such as the targetting. yeah, it sounds arcady to me too, until i realized all these activities are already possible in the game, but just alot more accessible now.

If you want to move using mouse it should be possible too. The WASD thingy sounds like an addition, not a substitute.

as for performing special moves using double taps... not sure how that will turn out. personally i don't use power attack so i'm not too excited by this (besides there's already a button specifically for it). probably a lousy example to begin with.

now imagine playing as a thief that you're already controlling movement using WASD and u can go into "sneak" mode using double W tap... sounds handy to me.

 

[Spazmo]

Hey, 10 points for anyone who can name another RPG that had a WADS movement scheme and arcadey elements. An extra 20 points if you can name the non-PC platform that game first appeared on. Could Feargie be gearing NWN2 up for Xbox Live?

 

[FrankHorrigan]

now imagine playing as a thief that you're already controlling movement using WASD and u can go into "sneak" mode using double W tap... sounds handy to me.

In what way is that handier than me selecting sneak mode with my radial menu and just left click to where i want to go? A good example of why this is just bad is monkey island 4, it just feels wrong. Going from doom(wasd) to duke3d(wasd+mouselook) step forward, going from almost the entire history of pc rpg gaming(mouse) to nwn2(wasd)=step backwards.

 

[Stark]

In what way is that handier than me selecting sneak mode with my radial menu and just left click to where i want to go?

well, radial menu-->"move mouse to sneak"-->click sneak button-->sneak.

in the mean time the radial menu is blocking your view so you can't very well move around.

Of course one can still short-key the sneak option to the shortkey-bar, so it'll still be one click process. But it is handier with the double-tap if you're already moving using WASD.

Fromthe article I gather it's just an addition, not a substitution, hence I don't see what's the problem really.

 

[plin]

Ok, but my point still stands. When a guy who oversaw one game and produced another in an acclaimed game series, that still sells because of the fans support, says in an interview that these fans are the worst, that doesn't sound right and there is no excuse for that.

I agree. But I don't think he is talking about the whole normal fanbase that is the beef of those sales, that probably never go to a fan site or fan forums. I think he just means the small groups on these web-sites that have almost a culture or organized view and attitude towards everything. And I understand why he would dislike that fanbase, because I do as well.

I dunno, I can understand if you don't agree, but at the same time, I understand fergie's destest of them.

 

[FrankHorrigan]

Of course one can still short-key the sneak option to the shortkey-bar, so it'll still be one click process. But it is handier with the double-tap if you're already moving using WASD.
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I aint going to argue the point with you all night but how can simply clicking the mouse, once, to get to a point be less convienent than have to keep your figure on the keyboard, adjust direction, until you arrive their? Point and click is the most logical, simple way to achieve the result and is the reason every d&d pc rpg has used the system. Do you think BG:Dark Alliance had a better system than Baldurs gate 1 ?

 

[Stark]

yeah. we can argue round and round and achieve nothing in the end. I can even argue with you that not every D&D crpg has used the point and click movement system (think EoB) but really it's beside the point.

done right, WASD can work too. Gothic has that scheme and it works alright.

besides, using the radial menu blocks your view, so usually (for me at least) I'll need to stop moving and then select the radial menu into sneak (for that matter quite a few other activities too). I think the Obsidian guys are thinking of multiplayer where pace of game is not interrupted so often with a bunch of guys playing together.

I agree point and click and move to that spot is handy, and probably more suited for NWN type of game. there.

 

[FrankHorrigan]

And i agree wasd worked great in gothic, isnt it wonderful when we all get along?

 

[Voss]

now imagine playing as a thief that you're already controlling movement using WASD and u can go into "sneak" mode using double W tap... sounds handy to me.

And when you're hurrying trying to get away from monsters that you're sneaking by and you accidently hit W twice, and are thus no longer sneaking, it doesn't sound quite so handy.

As for the radial menu blocking:
A) pause
B) hotkeys
C) sneak is on the hotkeys by DEFAULT. (F1 or F2)
D) thinking ahead. 'oh, there are monsters in the distance, they haven't noticed me yet. Maybe, just maybe, I should sneak now'
E) if the pace is thrown off by someone opening the radial menu and choosing one, commonly used thing, then there is something seriously with the game or those people that WASD isn't going to help

 

[jiujitsu]

Dammit, Feargie!

Got our hopes up with all that "learn from old style rpg" talk. You don't seem to be implementing anything you are learning!

Please for the love of God don't screw up BG3....

 

[Surlent]

Could Feargie be gearing NWN2 up for Xbox Live?

Using double buttons instead of separate hotkeys means less buttons used.
Console controllers have very limited button selection unlike PC keyboard.
IMHO those controls sound like made for console port.

 

[dunduks]

I dont get why everyone is so worked up about this. Feargus already mentioned that this is addition (as in not mandatory replacement) for control scheme and mainly targeted at multiplayer where you can not pause so often or can't pause at all. His point was the efficiency of control scheme - pressing F1 key will take a split second longer then double tapping W and in multiplayer that can matter. I could understand bitching if he was to change NWN from RPG to arcade (not that NWN is very RPGish, its more RPG lite), but this is just a minor adjustment.