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Editorial Skyrim - Building Better Combat

VentilatorOfDoom

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Tags: Bethesda Softworks; Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

<p>Gameinformer <a href="http://www.gameinformer.com/games/the_elder_scrolls_v_skyrim/b/xbox360/archive/2011/01/24/skyrim-building-better-combat.aspx" target="_blank">put up a piece</a> spiced up with Todd Howard quotes on how Bethesda is about to improve their whole combat system for <strong>The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim</strong>, for instance by drawing inspiration from BioShock for their magic system. Makes sense. BioShock had one of the best magic systems of all RPGs I ever played.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>A good offense must be accompanied by a good defense. To make defending a less passive activity, Bethesda has switched to a timing based blocking system that requires players to actively raise their shields to take the brunt of the attack. If you hold down the block button, your character will attempt to execute a bash move. If you catch a bandit off guard with the bash while he's attacking, it knocks him back and exposes him to a counter or power attack. Players can block and bash with two-handed weapons as well, but it isn't as effective as the shield. Warriors who prefer the sword-and-shield approach can increase their defensive capabilities with shield perks that give them elemental protection from spells.</p>
<p>Bethesda also smartly changed the pace at which characters backpedal, which removes the strike-and-flee tactic frequently employed in Oblivion. In Skyrim you can't bob and weave like a medieval Muhammad Ali as you could in Oblivion. Players can still dodge attacks from slower enemies like frost trolls, but don&rsquo;t expect to backpedal out of harms way against charging enemies. If you want to flee, you must turn your back to the enemy and hit the sprint button, leaving you exposed to an attack as you high tail it to safety.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>And another one:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Keeping in line with the philosophy of making the combat more tactile, Bethesda took inspiration for its spell casting from an unlikely source in Irrational Games' BioShock. Fighting his way through the city of Rapture, Howard was impressed with how Ken Levine's team visualized the power of the plasmids in your hands. They're adopting a similar approach for Skyrim.</p>
<p>&ldquo;Before when we had magic, it never felt to us like you were actually doing it,&rdquo; Howard admits. &ldquo;It was a separate button, it flew out of your fist, and you could have a shield in your hand or a two handed-weapon &ndash; you could do it with anything.&rdquo;</p>
<p>In Oblivion spells were cast with a face button, which allowed you to equip traditional weapons for melee combat and deftly cast spells between swings. By forcing players to equip a spell with one of their hands, players must make more of a commitment to learning the arcane arts. The ability to equip two different spells on your left and right hand raises the question &ndash; can you combine more than one spell? &ldquo;We're not talking about that,&rdquo; Howard says with a smile. &ldquo;We're not sure. We'd like to; it'd be awesome.&rdquo;</p>
<p>Even if you can't combine spells, magicka students will have no shortage of options, with over 85 spells divided into five schools of magic &ndash; destruction, restoration, illusion, alteration, and conjuration. Longtime Elder Scrolls fans may notice that the school of mysticism is absent. That's an intentional move on Bethesda's part. &ldquo;It always felt like the magical school of mysticism &ndash; isn't that redundant?&rdquo; Howard says. The spells formerly housed under the domain of mysticism have been moved to other schools of magic.</p>
<p>One of the more alluring changes to the spellcasting in Skyrim is how you can employ spells in different ways. For instance, you could blast enemies with a flame ball from afar, hold the button down to wield the spell like a flame thrower, place a rune on the ground to create an environmental trap that spontaneously combusts when an enemy steps on it, or equip the spell with both hands to deliver high damage fireball attacks that drain your magicka reserves quickly. The shock and frost spells give players an equal amount of flexibility.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That doesn't sound too bad, does it? I'm a sucker for spellcasting.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.rpgwatch.com/?rwsiteid=1#16598">RPGWatch</a></p>
 

Mastermind

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I take it this means custom spellmaking is more or less gone. Can't wait to hear Todd's excuse for this one: "the spells players made were shit anyway amirite guys?"

Then again that's not too bad seeing how spellmaking went in severe decline after daggerfall. Of course it also means we're stuck with the spells Todd came up with. I can only hope he delegated that task to someone else.

Prosper could do a decent job with it, with spells that impale enemies on dicks or create vaginas on walls that devour anything that walks past them. :smug:
 

racofer

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And here I was, hoping they would've simply copy/pasted Dark Messiah's melee combat mechanics on their game.

:(
 

1451

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The new combat systems reminds me Demon's Souls which is good.
On the other hand, it would disappointing if they don't include the ability to equip two different spells.
 

SoupNazi

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1451 said:
On the other hand, it would disappointing if they don't include the ability to equip two different spells.

You'll be able to do that it seems.

PCGamer said:
While you can only equip one spell to each hand, each spell can be used in a number of ways. A fireball spell can be turned into a flamethrower with an extended button press, or planted on the ground as a proximity bomb. It’s possible to dual wield the same spell for massive damage.
 

Castanova

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It actually sounds like they're making a couple improvements. Not being able to leap around enemies seems like it would make combat more methodical. Not sure how to interpret the inability to cast while holding something with that hand... seems like it could be good or bad.

Then again, I don't know why I'm thinking about this considering the game will probably be full retard anyway.
 

Xor

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I don't think I've ever seen a 1st person game with a useful block mechanic.
 

Suchy

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Xor said:
I don't think I've ever seen a 1st person game with a useful block mechanic.
Mount&Blade. Actually it has the best first person melee combat so far, in terms of realism and stats affecting the PC. Characters are too stiff though.
There's also that old game similar to Dark Messiah, can't recall the name atm... You could switch between tpp/fpp and combat was way better than in DM. More moves, more dynamic, and I liked that you couldn't see shit as a dwarf hiding behind a tower shield. I played some awesome melee matches on LAN with this game.
 

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Suchy said:
Xor said:
I don't think I've ever seen a 1st person game with a useful block mechanic.
Mount&Blade. Actually it has the best first person melee combat so far, in terms of realism and stats affecting the PC. Characters are too stiff though.
There's also that old game similar to Dark Messiah, can't recall the name atm... You could switch between tpp/fpp and combat was way better than in DM. More moves, more dynamic, and I liked that you couldn't see shit as a dwarf hiding behind a tower shield. I played some awesome melee matches on LAN with this game.

Severance: Blade of Darkness? Fucking best melee combat ever.
 

denizsi

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Suchy said:
Xor said:
I don't think I've ever seen a 1st person game with a useful block mechanic.
Mount&Blade. Actually it has the best first person melee combat so far, in terms of realism and stats affecting the PC. Characters are too stiff though.

:roll: I don't know about stats affecting the PC but realism in M&B? Heh.

There's also that old game similar to Dark Messiah, can't recall the name atm... You could switch between tpp/fpp and combat was way better than in DM. More moves, more dynamic, and I liked that you couldn't see shit as a dwarf hiding behind a tower shield. I played some awesome melee matches on LAN with this game.

One can only hope you don't mean Die By The Sword.
 

DraQ

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Castanova said:
It actually sounds like they're making a couple improvements. Not being able to leap around enemies seems like it would make combat more methodical. Not sure how to interpret the inability to cast while holding something with that hand... seems like it could be good or bad.
Seems good actually. Maybe they will at least make the combat system workable.

They are talking about 85 spells - I assume that means effects, because it's retardedly low for a number of actual spells in game. Even when interpreted as a number of effects it would mean that quite a few effects got the shaft.

If they actually decided to drop spellmaker, that's it - I won't need any extra info to declare that TES:V sucks.

And no, mysticism wasn't "redundant", it was basically "others" category.
I don't really see detection, metamagical, teleportation or soultrap spells in any of the remaining schools. Todd should shut the fuck up instead of jumping on every clueless press comment like horny, adolescent pooch on someone's leg.
:x
 

Luigi

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Breaking news. Beth games suck.
They would fail at implementing Rock-paper-scissors...
 
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The way it's described you can no longer just hold a shield in front of you, you can only tap a button to instantly block an incoming blow, or hold the button to perform a special attack.

In action games this layout is typically used for parrying/deflecting/counter-attacking, not for blocking, which is usually a continuously held function.

Anyone know of a game where blocking is only an instant button tap action and doesn't suck?
 

racofer

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CrunchyHemorrhoids said:
The way it's described you can no longer just hold a shield in front of you, you can only tap a button to instantly block an incoming blow, or hold the button to perform a special attack.

In action games this layout is typically used for parrying/deflecting/counter-attacking, not for blocking, which is usually a continuously held function.

Anyone know of a game where blocking is only an instant button tap action and doesn't suck?

They're doing that because that deadly reflexes mod for oblivion included this feature (it was optional) so Toddler probably thought everyone liked blocking this way and now it's an untoggleable "feature".
 

Garm

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Mastermind said:
I take it this means custom spellmaking is more or less gone. Can't wait to hear Todd's excuse for this one: "the spells players made were shit anyway amirite guys?"

Then again that's not too bad seeing how spellmaking went in severe decline after daggerfall. Of course it also means we're stuck with the spells Todd came up with. I can only hope he delegated that task to someone else.

Prosper could do a decent job with it, with spells that impale enemies on dicks or create vaginas on walls that devour anything that walks past them. :smug:

Custom spell making just gave you another automatic I WIN button anyway. All it took was a fire touch spell with 1 sec paralysis and you could one shot just about everything...if not just hit em again after they get up from the paralysis knockdown.
 

DraQ

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Garm said:
Custom spell making just gave you another automatic I WIN button anyway. All it took was a fire touch spell with 1 sec paralysis and you could one shot just about everything...if not just hit em again after they get up from the paralysis knockdown.
Go away beth apologist newfag.
:smug:
 

Drakron

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Garm said:
Custom spell making just gave you another automatic I WIN button anyway.

Custom spell making only allowed people to trick the system to level up magic skills with spells that did 0 damage.

Of course instead of fixing the issue its just better to remove it, Bethesda school of game development.
 

Suchy

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Tolknaz said:
Suchy said:
Xor said:
I don't think I've ever seen a 1st person game with a useful block mechanic.
Mount&Blade. Actually it has the best first person melee combat so far, in terms of realism and stats affecting the PC. Characters are too stiff though.
There's also that old game similar to Dark Messiah, can't recall the name atm... You could switch between tpp/fpp and combat was way better than in DM. More moves, more dynamic, and I liked that you couldn't see shit as a dwarf hiding behind a tower shield. I played some awesome melee matches on LAN with this game.

Severance: Blade of Darkness? Fucking best melee combat ever.
Yeah, that's it. Couldn't find FPP gameplay video though, all the newfags play in third person, ffs.
 

Yeesh

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Drakron said:
Garm said:
Custom spell making just gave you another automatic I WIN button anyway.

Custom spell making only allowed people to trick the system to level up magic skills with spells that did 0 damage.

Of course instead of fixing the issue its just better to remove it, Bethesda school of game development.
Barry's right. But there have been a great many CRPGs without spell making systems, so is it really so wrong of Beth to pull a faulty system and implement instead the far more commonly accepted system of "this spell does that, deal with it"?

Which is to say, leaving their original system in place would generate complaints, taking it out would generate complaints, streamlining it would generate complaints... It's so hard to please a bunch of angry cunts.
 

DraQ

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Yeesh said:
Barry's right. But there have been a great many CRPGs without spell making systems, so is it really so wrong of Beth to pull a faulty system
Given that "faulty system" was one of increasingly less numerous good things about their games left*?
 

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