Editorial Skyrim - Building Better Combat

[Claw]

Anyone know of a game where blocking is only an instant button tap action and doesn't suck?

Gothic 2.

I like it, I found low-lvl fights against NPCs with high dmg output where I had to time attacks and blocks one of the best parts of the game.



By the way, I hated the spellmaker in Morrowind. Not that I would consider removing it a good fix.

 

[DraQ]

*) Even though it was getting suckier due to removal of spell effects and introduction of simultaneous effect application.

By the way, I hated the spellmaker in Morrowind.

Why? It was somewhat plain and could use more options, but it allowed for some genuinely interesting things when playing as a mage.

 

[ecliptic]

Anyone know of a game where blocking is only an instant button tap action and doesn't suck?

Gothic 2.

I like it, I found low-lvl fights against NPCs with high dmg output where I had to time attacks and blocks one of the best parts of the game.



By the way, I hated the spellmaker in Morrowind. Not that I would consider removing it a good fix.

Same goes for Risen before you become a world-destroying melee implement of death (or that was just me... damned 200 strength) that could though be killed in two to three hits by most end game enemies on hard difficulty.

 

[Mastermind]

Custom spell making only allowed people to trick the system to level up magic skills with spells that did 0 damage.

Err, no. Custom spells were vastly superior to the default shit in most cases.

 

[Mastermind]

*) Even though it was getting suckier due to removal of spell effects and introduction of simultaneous effect application.

By the way, I hated the spellmaker in Morrowind.

Why? It was somewhat plain and could use more options, but it allowed for some genuinely interesting things when playing as a mage.

It was also useless. Enchanting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> natural spellcasting. The only spells I cast naturally were a bunch of utility ones and drain 100 skill on myself so I could train to 100 for free.

 

[riptide]

Not just vastly superior. They were *required* if you wanted to kill your opponents quickly.

 

[DraQ]

It was also useless. Enchanting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> natural spellcasting.

We've already had this discussion, I think.

Untrue.
Due to how damaging magic effects are applied (over time, with minimum unit of time being 1s), machinegun effect from enchantments is mostly useless, with the exception of weakness to magicka self-stacking. At best you can get one spell per second (as opposed to one per three seconds) but that still can be offset by making DoT spells with duration of three seconds. Zero casting time and phenomenal efficiency of enchantments at high skill levels can be very useful for certain applications, but the enchantments are also less flexible (requiring physical items and taking up slots), less powerful (due to EP limit on items), and too costly to make them the main source of caster's power at low levels.

You could reply that Enchant is just one skill as opposed to six schools of magic, allowing you to take any skillset you want to complement your enchanting ability, but I can turn the same argument against you, because there is nothing to keep me from taking enchant and natural spellcasting and benefiting from both depending on circumstances.

@riptide:
Not just "if". They were simply required for a dedicated caster.

 

[Claw]

By the way, I hated the spellmaker in Morrowind.

Why? It was somewhat plain and could use more options, but it allowed for some genuinely interesting things when playing as a mage.

Well, I guess there were multiple issues. First of all, I while the possibilities may be interesting, the spell making itself was thoroughly unappealing to me. I hated having to go to some NPC or having to pay money (what a great way to incentivize experimenting), and when I saw the interface for the first time I was like


I never got very deeply involved in the spellmaking. I never got many spell effects, and from what I recall I couldn't create very potent spells with a high chance of success, so I guess I was scraping at the bottom of what was possible.

I'm not sure what my problem was, I don't recall too much of playing Morrowind except that I fancied crafting enchanted items with just enough charges for one or two uses and used them more than casting spells.

Maybe I just had to buy more of those useless spells I scoffed at to get the basic effects.
Possibly by the time I got access to spellmaking, I was already too demotivated as I believe I quit playing shortly afterwards.
Unfortunately, I found Morrowing, including magic, quite dull. In fact, I was unimpessed by the visual FX and found the spellcasting sounds annoying. I can still hear them when I think about it. Blech.


One thing does interest me though:

Coma (I'm not the author of this one):
fortify fatigue (must last longer than any of the other effects)
damage willpower, strength, agility, endurance

How exactly does this work?

 

[DraQ]

One thing does interest me though:

Coma (I'm not the author of this one):
fortify fatigue (must last longer than any of the other effects)
damage willpower, strength, agility, endurance

How exactly does this work?

This will be a well informed guess more than anything else, but since max fatigue is calculated dynamically based on four attributed mentioned and since fortify effects just remove the same bonus they applied on wearing off, we end up with a character with max fatigue of 0 with bonus applied, who then loses this bonus and ends up plunging deeply into negatives and getting knocked out cold at least semi-permanently (since damaged stats stay at 0).

The thing I liked about MW spellmaker is that, discounting obvious exploits of bugs and leaky mechanics (drain intelligence glitch, soultrap glitch, multiple soultraps, etc.), you pretty much had to think sideways to get anything out of it, but when you eventually did get something out of it, it could be very impressive and very rewarding - you had to do some brain-work and as the result were able to do something awesome.

I don't think any other game captured the essence of being a wizard so well - being powerful *because* you spent time researching spells and experimenting with magic effects.

It was fucking gratifying when my level 3 "filthy lizard", utterly incapable of combat and completely inept at anything related to stealth entered the Balmora Council Club, then left it unmolested by guards to collect the reward for five or so well muscled Cammonna Tong thugs (most of whom would have instacreamed my lizard even in single combat) who turned out to have succumbed to simultaneous heart attack without any apparent outside causes.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Err, no. Custom spells were vastly superior to the default shit in most cases.

It was also useless. Enchanting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> natural spellcasting. The only spells I cast naturally were a bunch of utility ones and drain 100 skill on myself so I could train to 100 for free.

Heh. I guess "dangerously cheesy" could count as "superior", yeah

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They are talking about 85 spells - I assume that means effects, because it's retardedly low for a number of actual spells in game. Even when interpreted as a number of effects it would mean that quite a few effects got the shaft.

Dunno, most preset spells are minor vaiations of each other anyway. Oblivion Example:

Serenity Calm up to level 2 for 10sec on Target
(a.k.a. Calm 10pts for 10sec on Target) 13 Delphine Jend, Ohtesse

Soothing Touch Calm up to level 2 for 15sec on Touch
(a.k.a. Calm 10pts for 15sec on Touch) 13 Delphine Jend

Pacification Calm up to level 2 for 20sec on Target
(a.k.a. Calm 10pts for 20sec on Target) 26 Delphine Jend

Calming Touch Calm up to level 7 for 20sec on Touch
(a.k.a. Calm 30pts for 20sec on Touch) 73 Aurelinwae, Delphine Jend

In some cases, they're even repetitions. Morrowind example:

Demoralize Beast
5pts for 10sec on Target 4 Arielle Phiencel Wolverine Hall, Mages Guild Llaros Uvayn Caldera, Governor's Hall

Demoralize Creature
5pts for 10sec on Target 4 Ethasi Rilvayn Balmora, Morag Tong Guildhall Sirilonwe Vivec, Guild of Mages