Preview In unrelated news - here's another Bloodlines preview

[Whipporowill]

Tags: Troika Games; Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

In the recent torrent of previews based on Activision's (apparently genious marketing ploy) Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines hands-on event, <a href="http://www.worthplaying.com" target=_blank>Worthplaying</a> steps up to drop their <a href="http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=21112" target=_blank>feelings</a> on the subject:<blockquote>I’m not a big fan of Vampire (remember what I said about redlining the angst-meter? There you go), but from what I played of it, Bloodlines is actually pretty cool. Each run through the game could easily take you sixty hours, and once you finish, you can try again as a totally different kind of character. If you’re looking for a good way to use up a few weeks at a time, Bloodlines has you covered.</blockquote>It might be worth mentioning (no pun intended), that this preview is a safe read as it is totally free of any real spoilers - which certain others were packed with. Also, it's good to hear good things about the game from someone who's not even into vampires to begin with.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.bluesnews.com">Blue's News</A>

 

[Volourn]

"However, in a show of the prince’s infinite mercy"

ROTFLMAOATWTKKUYADYT


"You also can’t commit diablerie, the practice of drinking another vampire’s blood to gain his powers. According to Troika, this was deliberately left out, since diablerie opens up a serious can of worms. Not only could it easily break the game, but it carries a host of unfortunate social consequences, i.e. every other vampire wanting to kill you on sight."

Boo... What a cop out.


"Bloodlines manages to convey an atmosphere of decay and desperation without redlining the angst-meter, simply by putting you into such a matter-of-factly dark world and making you an intrinsic part of it; it’s remarkably easy to become part of the problem or to do something about it."

Good stuff.


"Sadly, in Bloodlines, you can’t play as any of the nonaffiliated or Sabbat clans, though one or two of them will show up over the course of the game.)"

Yeah, it's best to force the player into a certain group of clans.


"Your clan, Disciplines, and skills can all work together to create a wide variety of possible characters"

Kewl.


"If you manage to survive that and keep flaunting your vampirism in public, the prince of the city will get involved; game over."

No comment.


"The controls will be familiar to anyone who’s mastered an FPS"

Can I throw up now?

 

[Whipporowill]

"However, in a show of the prince’s infinite mercy"

ROTFLMAOATWTKKUYADYT

You know what, I think he's being sarcastic there...

"You also can’t commit diablerie, the practice of drinking another vampire’s blood to gain his powers. According to Troika, this was deliberately left out, since diablerie opens up a serious can of worms. Not only could it easily break the game, but it carries a host of unfortunate social consequences, i.e. every other vampire wanting to kill you on sight."

Boo... What a cop out.

Nope, there's genuine reason for not allowing diablerie - could fuck up the storyline as the Prince would have to ask every vampire in his control to kill you. Pretty hard to get anyone to talk to you, if that was the case.

"Sadly, in Bloodlines, you can’t play as any of the nonaffiliated or Sabbat clans, though one or two of them will show up over the course of the game.)"

Yeah, it's best to force the player into a certain group of clans.

7 Clans not enough for you Volo? The othe's are bad guys or neutral, wouldn't fit in the storyline - as the prince wouldn't be able to demand their obediance.

"The controls will be familiar to anyone who’s mastered an FPS"

Can I throw up now?

As long as you mop up after yourself, go ahead!

 

[Volourn]

"You know what, I think he's being sarcastic there..."

Maybe. 1 point for Whip.


"Nope, there's genuine reason for not allowing diablerie - could fuck up the storyline as the Prince would have to ask every vampire in his control to kill you. Pretty hard to get anyone to talk to you, if that was the case."

BIO sure as heck wouldn't get away with that exuse. If the storyline is so dependent on that... 1 point for Volourn.


"7 Clans not enough for you Volo? The othe's are bad guys or neutral, wouldn't fit in the storyline - as the prince wouldn't be able to demand their obediance."

A. No. 7 clans is not enough for me.

B. Ooo.. They're bad or neutral. So, i gues you can only play good guys here? Weird... I thoguht you could murder. death. kill.. Hmm..

C. It's all about the Prince, i see. You gotta be babysat by him. Wow. What limiting storyline there. ia lreayd hit the Prince, and not in a good way. 1 point for Volourn.


"As long as you mop up after yourself, go ahead!"

Draw.

Volourn 2 Whip 1 Tie 1


I WIN!!!111

 

[Whipporowill]

The 7 clans of the Camarilla are the ones following the Masquerade - and the clans originally in the pnp game. The sabbath was set up as an oposing faction not caring about the masquerade, but somewhat more out-and-out bad guys. Vampires in the Camarilla may be as evil as they choose as long as they don't disobey the prince or breach the Camarilla rules.

So, no. I wouldn't say you get points for that. That's like being upset that Bio didn't implement goblins as playable characters in the OC.

And diablerie is punishable by death - how would you get it in the game without making everyone your enemy? You, as a vampire, can't keep it secret as it shows on your aura - and you'll be killed on site.

 

[almondblight]

BIO sure as heck wouldn't get away with that exuse. If the storyline is so dependent on that... 1 point for Volourn.

I dunno...if it'd be just an instant death screen it'd seem kinda pointless. If they wanted to do anything useful with it they would probably have to create a whole second storyline where the vampires are after you - too much work for them.

C. It's all about the Prince, i see. You gotta be babysat by him. Wow. What limiting storyline there. ia lreayd hit the Prince, and not in a good way. 1 point for Volourn.

Think of how you can only be the Vault Dweller in Fallout, not the mutants, not the raiders, etc. Like the above example, for the other clans to make sense they would have to make a whole seperate mission string, essentially making two games - too much work.

 

[Sol Invictus]

That stuff about the Prince of the city getting involved is definitely an instant death screen, hence the 'game over' remark by Worthplaying. That's definitely a lame way of doing it, and if it were anybody besides Troika, (especially Bioware) Whip and everybody else would probably be on their case for doing it in such a lame way.

Saying that it's 'too much work for Troika' is just a lame cop out. If it were Bioware, someone would probably be on their case, for having the manpower to do that alternate storyline but not wanting to, or whatever. Double standards are rife with Whipporowil.

 

[Whipporowill]

First off Rex, did you read that the game keeps several updated autosaves that makes a final death or a game over screen less of a game breaker? While I don't think that a game over screen is a good thing, I can see why total masquerade breach - like diablerie, aren't implemented. But that's my opinion.

And yes, I've said I'm not neutral when it comes to this game, you can ask everyone? I even asked Spaz to post one of the previews so the site wouldn't look fanboy. OMG.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Why shouldn't diablerie be implemented? What's wrong with Troika making it so that the Vampires you encounter DO want to kill you and your only recourse is to, well, die? Removing Diablerie is just lame, even if the alternative meant fighting each and every one of them.

I think it's funny how you'd probably bust Bioware a new asshole if they were making a game this linear, with very little choices when it comes to stuff like this. I'm willing to bet that any DM of a Vampire campaign would allow a lot more flexibility in terms of adventuring instead of forcing the player to not perform diablerie, and not allow any methods of redeeming himself after he's broken the Masquerade.

 

[Whipporowill]

Rex, I'm not anti-bio. I have all of their games, I just like Troika's style more than theirs. It's a personal opinon, nothing else. I don't recall bashing bio beyond a possibly stupid annoucement or something. Check your facts.

As for the diablerie thing - I have played Vamp pnp, and was really interested in aquring new powers and thought it sounded like a smart way. My Storyteller did all he could to avoid the situation, as it would fark up the relations with the prince - which we incidentally were working for in the campaign. While I agree that it would be cool to be able to gain power from it - it's a gamebreaker. Should a developer allow someone to break the game? They did that with Morrowind and it annoyed me - popup that said the game was farked, and you would be playing on your own risk.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Becoming a Vampire in Morrowind was pretty cool, especially since they allowed you to do it, though you were in no way obligated to do it. It was a gameplay choice, and you had every right to decide what you wanted to do with your character, as it is your game. While I don't mind 'games on rails' in action RPGs like Diablo and Dungeon Siege, single player CRPGs like Vampire really suffer from lack of choice because it limits replayability. Fallout had a lot of open-endedness, and that was the reason most of us here enjoyed it. Planescape Torment was a lot more restrictive and as such, not everybody here likes it. Deus Ex even more restrictive, and on and on.

As a "Troika style" CRPG I have come to expect a lot more open-endedness and gameplay choices, even if one of them meant 'breaking the game' in some way, it would at least be a choice you could make, and I'd rather have Diablerie possible in the game, instead of the game forcing you not to be able to commit it. That is just weak, and it's like setting up walls everywhere the player goes in order to guide him.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Why shouldn't diablerie be implemented? What's wrong with Troika making it so that the Vampires you encounter DO want to kill you and your only recourse is to, well, die? Removing Diablerie is just lame, even if the alternative meant fighting each and every one of them.

There's several reasons that come to mind for this not being included, one of the more poignant ones being the balance issue. It seems a player that would diablerize every vampire he could he would eventually become too powerful. The other obvious reason is that adequate reactions for your diablerie spree would likely entail a complete lack of direction from the gameworld. If you go off killing every single vampire, they obviously won't care to deal with you. If you start killing vampire "lords", I assume treks through their areas would also be a nightmare to deal with. This kind of situation also seems to promote a higher rate of possibly breaking the Masquerade.

I think it's funny how you'd probably bust Bioware a new asshole if they were making a game this linear, with very little choices when it comes to stuff like this.

I think many people would complain about any company that did something like this with their games. That many people here complained about ToEE should be an indication of this.

I'm willing to bet that any DM of a Vampire campaign would allow a lot more flexibility in terms of adventuring instead of forcing the player to not perform diablerie, and not allow any methods of redeeming himself after he's broken the Masquerade.

Great thinking there Rex, comparing two different mediums which have different ways of handling the same gameplay structure. Of course a DM of a Vampire campaign can create that kind of scenario, he or she has the imagination and means to pull it off. They're not an electronic medium with finite improvisation capability and finite development resources, are they? Why compare a DM to a game when the DM, as we all know, has advantages and abilities a videogame cannot have?

 

[Whipporowill]

On the other hand, Bloodlines is a game about Vampires, not one were you can choose to become one... aren't you going to run off saying that it not allowing you to play a human is lazy of Troika? Just like you were rail-roaded into playing a Jedi in Kotor. It's because of the storyline. We know you like games when there's not much story to talk about, so what do you care really?

 

[S4ur0n27]

aaallo

 

[Sol Invictus]

So I happen to like games where storylines aren't important, e.g. action RPGs, but that has absolutely nothing to do with my like of regular RPGs, and why should it? Can't a person like both takes? Your words sound like they would come from the kind of person who would railroad people into liking only a certain genre of music, or a certain genre of movie. Weak.

Maybe you think I bear only ill regard for Bloodlines, but I don't. In fact, I, more than anybody else want the game to be good. I didn't at all like Arcanum and TOEE left much to be desired, and as such, I've lost quite a bit of anticipation for the title, but if Bloodlines turns out to be some sort of successor to Fallout, I'd be very pleased. I just can't say things are looking too bright with the limitations that the game seems to impose on the player, at this point.

Just as I didn't like how KOTOR forced you to be a Jedi, there's no reason why I should feel any different about Bloodlines.

 

[S4ur0n27]

It's a fucking game about Vampires, and there are what, 10 types of Vampires? That's more than enough. Who wants to be Blade anyway, he's black.

 

[Volourn]

"That's more than enough."

No. And, it's seven. Learn to read, dumbass.

 

[S4ur0n27]

Well 7 is at least enough, seeing as they're kind of customizable.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well you look like a white guy with black features, so I wouldn't say things like that if I were you. You've probably had blacks in your ancestry.

 

[S4ur0n27]

Oh no I'm gonna cry, you're a gook, so fuck me.

 

[Sol Invictus]

You really shouldn't say that over here, Sauron. This isn't #fallout and most people don't know you as well as I do. You might actually offend someone with that.

 

[Sarkile]

I would have rather played as a Lasombra Antitribu than any of the seven base clans, but it's fine.

 

[EEVIAC]

Well 7 is at least enough, seeing as they're kind of customizable.

No, they're not. You pick a clan and get three clan disciplines. No freebie points to invest in other disciplines, no learning new disciplines along the way. A Brujah will never acquire Fortitude, a Gangrel will never get Auspex. This has bothered me a whole lot more than diablerie (which I couldn't give a fuck about) ever since Leon announced it.

 

[space captain]

damn there sure are alot of whiny bitches around here... maybe all you complainers should give up games altogether and reduce the stressors in your life... just a thought - although im sure you'll have a complaint for that too

 

[Seven]

Well 7 is at least enough, seeing as they're kind of customizable.

No, they're not. You pick a clan and get three clan disciplines. No freebie points to invest in other disciplines, no learning new disciplines along the way. A Brujah will never acquire Fortitude, a Gangrel will never get Auspex. This has bothered me a whole lot more than diablerie (which I couldn't give a fuck about) ever since Leon announced it.

I could be wrong, but I think you're mistaken. I recall the demo videos stating and demonstrating otherwise.