Game News Posthumous GOTY for Bloodlines at RPGDot

[Spazmo]

Tags: Troika Games; Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

<a href="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPGDot</a> have got their final <a href=http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=1099>awards dealie</a> and this is the big one--best RPG of 2004. Troika's Bloodlines gets the nod from RPGDot's readers as well as its staff.<blockquote>Perhaps representative of all Troika's games, the brilliant but flawed Vampire: Bloodlines was easily the best RPG of 2004 despite some obvious problems. Based on White Wolf's ‘Vampire the Masquerade' license and built with Valve's Source engine, Bloodlines dripped with a dark, suspenseful atmosphere and featured some of the most memorable characters to appear in an RPG – few players will forget the Twins, Jack and many others. Each of the seven playable clans had a marked effect on gameplay, the dialogue was superb with deft touches of humour and many quests had multiple solutions. That Bloodlines had frustrating bugs, performance issues, was overly linear and the end trailed into repetitive combat is a testament to the quality of the first three Acts.</blockquote>Now if only people had bought it...
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Thanks to <b>Mr. Teatime</b> for the heads up.

 

[NeverwinterKnight]

Each of the seven playable clans had a marked effect on gameplay

really? i played thru twice, once as gangrel and once as malkavian. apart from the messed up dialogue for the malk, i didnt notice much difference in how the game played.

 

[Spazmo]

Well, I disagree. My Toreador and Tremere playthroughs were drastically different. The Toreador focused on Celerity and sliced shit up with a sword. My Tremere used guns and Thaumaturgy as well as Dominate to deal with things and the game played totally differently.

 

[DemonKing]

Off BL for a minute, there are a couple of thing about these awards I don't get:

1. How in the Hell is HOTU eligible for GOTY 2004?

2. Why do the editors think Thief:Deadly Shadows was an RPG? It's not like you have any chocie as to who your character is or how he develops.

 

[Volourn]

"1. How in the Hell is HOTU eligible for GOTY 2004?"

I believe that has been answered. Though it was released in 2003; it was so late that year it missed out on the 2003 awards so it got a shot at 2004. Not to mention, they needed filler due to the lack of 2004 RPGs.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Warcraft 3 is an RPG according to RPGDot.

 

[DemonKing]

I believe that has been answered. Though it was released in 2003; it was so late that year it missed out on the 2003 awards so it got a shot at 2004. Not to mention, they needed filler due to the lack of 2004 RPGs.

Then KOTOR PC should be eligible too, seeing as both it and HOTU arrived in my mail box one week apart.

 

[Volourn]

"The KOTOR PC should be eligible too, seeing as both it and HOTU arrived in my mail box one week apart."

And?

 

[DemonKing]

"The KOTOR PC should be eligible too, seeing as both it and HOTU arrived in my mail box one week apart."

And?

Meaning they were both released in the same week (at least in Europe).

Anyway, I can't believe if RPGDOT are just getting around to awarding their 2004 awards in February that a game released in November/December is *too* late for consideration in the proper calender year it was released in.

No biggie.

 

[space captain]

i dont know who's idea it was, but the whole "gothic" thing and all the vampires and shit is like, so 90's.... most people laugh at that shit nowadays

whereas in the late 80s and such, the whole goth movement was taken much more seriously, and/or mostly unknown in the mainstream

bad choice of source material, to be sure.... they should have stuck with D&D or gone with their own thing - they should have pushed and fought for it...

its not enough to say "we dont have much control"... it comes off like a pathetic excuse

 

[Jed]

its not enough to say "we dont have much control"... it comes off like a pathetic excuse

Has anyone from Troika ever actually said that about choosing which franchise to take? If not, it's starting to become quite the canard.

 

[Dhruin]

1. Already explained but 3.) will provide a hint
2. We cover a number of games because we feel our audience might be interested and/or because we want to. Always have, probably always will.
3. KotOR was November, HotU was December. Guess the cut-off.
4. We were hacked and moved to different hosting afterwards that required some changes and this put us way behind. Our other GotY awards have been early-mid January.

 

[Spazmo]

If all RPG sites had the exact same standards as us in terms of which games to cover, well, it'd get kind of dull. RPGDot caters to a somewhat different audience, and that's fine. Plus, reporting on console games and pseudo-RPGs keeps up the volume of news when things are slow for real RPGs.

Not that we're going to start doing that here anytime soon.

 

[Greatatlantic]

Each of the seven playable clans had a marked effect on gameplay

really? i played thru twice, once as gangrel and once as malkavian. apart from the messed up dialogue for the malk, i didnt notice much difference in how the game played.

Yeah, no matter what clan you choose your sire gets done in Louis XVI style. I mean, if you pick another clan, you should play a totally different game!

[/sarcasm]

Clans affected dialogue at different times, and its the little touches that make it nice. I mean, the entire Malkavian dialogue tree was redone just for that one clan, and in a game where dialogue is so central you say there was no difference? Of course its still the same game and the main story arc is the same, but thats like asking for a four lane highway to two different routes.

The real difference in play didn't really come from the clans, necessarily. It came from how you played the game, with the three archetypes being fighter, diplomat, or thief. I stealthy Nosferatu would handle the Elizabeth Dane very differently the a smooth talking Torreador or a beat'em up Gangrel.

 

[Shagnak]

What he said ^

I agree with the "three archetypes" stuff...each of the clans are predisposed to one of the archetypes, therefore giving the impression that they are influencing how you play the game.

There are also the various abilities the different clans get. My Malkavian does a lot of sneaky shit, so in terms of gameplay style I sneak around a lot - just like a Noseferatu would I guess. However, I also have Dementation (which I assume a Nosferatu doesnt), and my use of that would ceratinly change the way I handle certain situations e.g. "influencing" (well, making them bonkers) in conversation, "insta-death" using Shadow of Death, etc.

I don't know how anyone can say there isn't much gameplay difference. Perhaps ceratin clans are more similar to each other than others?

 

[NeverwinterKnight]

Clans affected dialogue at different times, and its the little touches that make it nice. I mean, the entire Malkavian dialogue tree was redone just for that one clan, and in a game where dialogue is so central you say there was no difference? Of course its still the same game and the main story arc is the same, but thats like asking for a four lane highway to two different routes.

that was my point though. yes, the dialogue was different, but the actual choices were pretty much the same. they were just worded differently.

and the biggest thing...

The real difference in play didn't really come from the clans, necessarily. It came from how you played the game, with the three archetypes being fighter, diplomat, or thief. I stealthy Nosferatu would handle the Elizabeth Dane very differently the a smooth talking Torreador or a beat'em up Gangrel.

at about the last 1/3 of the game, they forced you to fight endless amounts of enemies, thus severely hampering anyone who took a thief or diplomat character. if the game truly let you play differently, there would have been ways in which a thief or diplomat would be able to complete the game without having to turn into a fighter.

 

[Shagnak]

at about the last 1/3 of the game, they forced you to fight endless amounts of enemies, thus severely hampering anyone who took a thief or diplomat character. if the game truly let you play differently, there would have been ways in which a thief or diplomat would be able to complete the game without having to turn into a fighter.

Yep, they dropped the ball towards the end, we all know that.
I think we are putting blinkers on and trying to only remember the good bits!!! :wink:
(i.e. the first 2/3 - gameplay style mattered then)

If only the last third had maintained the rp level....*sigh*
Oh well, at least we can say that gameplay style could be different for the majority of the game.

 

[Greatatlantic]

at about the last 1/3 of the game, they forced you to fight endless amounts of enemies, thus severely hampering anyone who took a thief or diplomat character. if the game truly let you play differently, there would have been ways in which a thief or diplomat would be able to complete the game without having to turn into a fighter.

Maybe for the last fourth, and I'd even say the last fifth of the game is a dungeon crawl. However, sneaking past the baddies remained a very valid, even easier path, than combat. Plus, there were locked doors and crates to help you get bonuses. So its not like there was no advantage to skills not combat. But even if you just went combat, there was still the difference between ranged combat and melee.

But going back to the other point, of the words just being different and not changing anything... Are you really expecting another game entire? Dead people are still going to want you to do their dirty work, and as such they address you based on things like clan or gender. Plus, Nosferatu accomplish some missions very differently to reflect their status as "walking Masquerade Breaches".

 

[NeverwinterKnight]

But going back to the other point, of the words just being different and not changing anything... Are you really expecting another game entire? Dead people are still going to want you to do their dirty work, and as such they address you based on things like clan or gender. Plus, Nosferatu accomplish some missions very differently to reflect their status as "walking Masquerade Breaches".

which is why i used the phrase "much difference". obviously there is SOME difference, but i was just commenting that the actual game and story doesnt really differ depending on which clan you play. but as i noted, by the last part of the game (and were not just talking about the final battle, were talking quite a few of the final missions) deteriorates into mindless combat, making any "differences in clans or play styles" completely a moot point.

 

[Greatatlantic]

which is why i used the phrase "much difference". obviously there is SOME difference, but i was just commenting that the actual game and story doesnt really differ depending on which clan you play. but as i noted, by the last part of the game (and were not just talking about the final battle, were talking quite a few of the final missions) deteriorates into mindless combat, making any "differences in clans or play styles" completely a moot point.

Right, if we judged all game on the strength of their endings... Man, no one would be playing games. Endings are the point where it seems every game ever released screw up on. I will concede they definitely dropped the ball on the last two sequences, but until then the game responds to who you are and how you played. I think the only thing we are arguing over is a degree of difference. I think it was less linear than Deus Ex and gave you more play options than System Shock 2. Plus, it was much better written and executed then your namesake.

 

[NeverwinterKnight]

Right, if we judged all game on the strength of their endings... Man, no one would be playing games. Endings are the point where it seems every game ever released screw up on. I will concede they definitely dropped the ball on the last two sequences, but until then the game responds to who you are and how you played.

not to get too technical, but bloodlines fell apart way before the ending. kotor2 fell apart (atleast the consensus think so) at around or just after the meeting with the jedi masters on dantooine, and then of course malachor, which was basically the last planet. bloodlines fell apart pretty much from the point china town was accessible on the map, which constitutes quite a bit more than just the "ending" of the bloodlines saga.
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[Greatatlantic]

not to get too technical, but bloodlines fell apart way before the ending. kotor2 fell apart (atleast the consensus think so) at around or just after the meeting with the jedi masters on dantooine, and then of course malachor, which was basically the last planet. bloodlines fell apart pretty much from the point china town was accessible on the map, which constitutes quite a bit more than just the "ending" of the bloodlines saga.

Nonsense. In Chinatown you had interesting NPCs, multiple ways to complete quests, rewards for doing it differently, Malkavian dialogue was still insane and insightful, there were several optional quests. Plus, it didn't have the Warrens, or any prolonged combat sequence. After that, well... Society of Leopold was combat or sneak, but there were still ways for somebody with lockpick or hacking to make it easier, and once you reached the Professor dialogue was back in vogue. Plus there was that great line about tag teaming with Jesus and still going down. I'd argue that the game's charm remained until the Hollowbrook hotel, and a brief respite of running from a werewolf. Then it was pretty much mindless combat throughout the Golden Palace, though fighting Ming was fun. The Ventrue tower was better done, if for no other reason than the enemies don't respawn. But I'd put that all starting much later than the two thirds through the game, like you seem to be insisting. I haven't played KotOR II, yet, so I won't compare the two. I can compare it KotOR I, but thats for another time or place.

 

[Spazmo]

I agree with Greatatlantic. Yeah, the Warrens were pretty terrible (for melee characters, anyways, my ranged Tremere breezed through them), but Chinatown was actually pretty decent. It's only at the Hollowbrook Hotel and beyond that things get really bad.

 

[NeverwinterKnight]

Nonsense. In Chinatown you had interesting NPCs, multiple ways to complete quests, rewards for doing it differently, Malkavian dialogue was still insane and insightful, there were several optional quests. Plus, it didn't have the Warrens, or any prolonged combat sequence. After that, well... Society of Leopold was combat or sneak, but there were still ways for somebody with lockpick or hacking to make it easier, and once you reached the Professor dialogue was back in vogue. Plus there was that great line about tag teaming with Jesus and still going down. I'd argue that the game's charm remained until the Hollowbrook hotel, and a brief respite of running from a werewolf. Then it was pretty much mindless combat throughout the Golden Palace, though fighting Ming was fun. The Ventrue tower was better done, if for no other reason than the enemies don't respawn. But I'd put that all starting much later than the two thirds through the game, like you seem to be insisting. I haven't played KotOR II, yet, so I won't compare the two. I can compare it KotOR I, but thats for another time or place.

fair enough. admittedly its been a while since i played it (the slowdowns and bugs made me uninstall it after 2 play thrus), so perhaps my estimation of what portion of the game turned to crap is, but overall i felt that once you got to china town, things started to deteriorate. perhaps not right away, but that whole run through the syndicate building (when you were put through "tests") and the bar when you had a bar room full of guys with uzis making it impossible to sneak past them.

in all, the best roleplaying aspects of the game seemed to start on a slippery slope once you got to china town, even if it didnt completely disappear by then.

 

[Greatatlantic]

If your persuasion was high enough you could convince one of the goons to let you see Johnny. See, no combat. Plus, there was a door behind the guard. While the test chambers themselves were pretty buggy, the whole level was fairly short, and I thought it added another dimension to the game, that somebody had hired the Madarin to test Vampires for weaknesses. I wonder who that could have been...

As for the game's best elements being at the start, thats true for pretty much every game I've ever played, to use a little hyperbole. Take the original half life. Is there anyone who actually enjoyed Xen? I mean, it looked all cool and sci-fi, but the jumping puzzles were just too much. Plus, those flying aliens were a nightmare to take on. To say a game's declines in quality is not the same as saying it is no longer quality, however. The game only goes "bad" with the Hollowbrook Hotel.