Editorial Storytelling Bioware-style

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: BioWare

<a href=http://www.gamasutra.com>Gamasutra</a> has posted a <a href=http://www.gamasutra.com/gdc2005/features/20050317/postcard-sanchez-crespo.htm>report</a> on Bioware's Dr.Greg Zeschuk's presentation on storytelling at GDC 2005.
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<blockquote>Finally, Zeschuk explained what makes BioWare different with regards of story telling in three factors. First, he spoke about player influence: all BioWare stories orbit around the player, who is the center of everything. He even mentioned BioWare believed in the concept of games providing a sort of fantasy fulfillment, allowing you to become your secret dreams and desires. The second factor that sets BioWare apart is personalization of the story. All BioWare games allow the player a certain level of non-linearity, often linked to moral choices he must take during the course of the adenture. By doing this, the player is actually asserting who does he or she want to be within the game: a good or evil character, a hero or a villain. In Jade Empire this can notably be seen in the two sides: the way of the Open Hand and the way of the Closed Fist. Last, he spoke about the non-linearity present in all BioWare games. While he said a story-based game needs to have a story by nature, he said at BioWare they believe in non-linearity with guidance, this is, a linear story that can be advanced in non-linear ways. An example architecture for this would be a central hub location used to acquire new quests, and several non-linear satellite locations where actual adventuring takes place.</blockquote>
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Very amusing. To see the full story and to learn about NPCs classification, either register at Gamesutra or see <a href=http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6682>dojoteef's GDC notes</a>
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPG Dot</A>

 

[bgillisp]

Bioware is not unique in regards to stories centering on the player. Heck, most consule RPG's do just that.

 

[Volourn]

Um. This is old news. Anyone who has played a BIO game would know this. Bioware has always been honest about this. They have never ever claimed to try to make a Fallout type RPG. Beside,s rant all youw ant, you'll buy BIO's next PC game and guess what VD, like all their other games, you will enjoy it. And, don't tell me you didn't enjoy NWN as we both know you have bought and/or played the expansions so stop being a faker.

Anyways, BIO's method here has both strengths and weaknesses. As does the fabled Fallout. Deal with it.

 

[bgillisp]

I'm going to agree on this point here. I felt Fallout was a little weak on the story side, but was great on the freedom it offered the player. And BG was great on the story side, and did not do as well on offering choices to the player.

Anyone know a way to have both a good story and lots of choices for the player? I have yet to see a game really do both very well. Arcanum was the best of the games I played in my opinion, but I still felt the story was a little lacking.

Maybe someday a game will come along that does both well. Until then, we will take what we can great.

 

[Volourn]

It's a balancing act. Both BG and FO balanced it well though they both balance dit in different ways.

PST had a good story and did give the player a lot of chocie - of course, it hammerlock players into a very specific role and the combat even using the IE style which I love was absolutely atrocious.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Um. This is old news. Anyone who has played a BIO game would know this.

Did the news post say "Breaking news! Bio ubar secret storytelling revealed!!!"? The news post is about Bio's presentation and Bio's own outlook on Bio's storytelling. For example, we all know that Volourn is an evil jerk, that aint news, but it would be amusing to know how Volourn sees him/her/itself.

They have never ever claimed to try to make a Fallout type RPG.

And that relates to the news post ... how?

Beside,s rant all youw ant...

Rant?

...you'll buy BIO's next PC game

I said many times that I would, so no need for this drama-style predictions.

...and guess what VD, like all their other games, you will enjoy it. And, don't tell me you didn't enjoy NWN as we both know you have bought and/or played the expansions so stop being a faker.

I didn't enjoy all Bio games, I definitely didn't enjoy NWN, and I didn't buy the expansions. You suck at mind reading. Don't quit your day job yet.

 

[bgillisp]

I forgot about PST! Silly me, and I even played the game! Thanks for reminding me.

And, I do agree with VD about NWN. I did not care for it either. Never could get into the game myself, gave up half-way in the first chapter. Still have it sitting around, in the vain hope I will decide to play it again someday. Maybe if I get bored this summer.

 

[Volourn]

" For example, we all know that Volourn is an evil jerk, that aint news, but it would be amusing to know how Volourn sees him/her/itself."

Okay then. Post the following as news if you dare:

Volourn sees itself as evil bastard who is a moronic retard.

Next.


"And that relates to the news post ... how?"

It be obvious to the intelligent.


"I didn't enjoy all Bio games, I definitely didn't enjoy NWN, and I didn't buy the expansions."

Only the gullible would take that as proof.


"I did not care for it either."

Meh. We all can't be perfect.. well... except for me.

 

[bgillisp]

Ok, Volourn, what did you like about NWN? Just wondering as you defend it often.

 

[Volourn]

Everything thst's good about it. :D

Seriously, lots. I think the OC's story's 'crappiness' is overrated. I thought it was ok. I'd rate it about 75%. Surely better than most game sincluding some of the old faves like the GB games or Wizardry for example. I thought the role-playing while NOT at FO's level was solid and was actually an improvement over BIo's work in the BG series (gasp! horror!). I love the combat, and espicially all the combat options. Only TOEE, imo, has a more impressive combat system in place for any CRPG ever. The toolset is fantastic, and thanks to some of the very good suer made mods (and ignoring the crap), NWN is never ending. It is the only game I still play regualry this long after an intitial release - I usually stop playing either 6 months or after 2 or 3 play throughs (whichever comes first).

Of course, it's far from perfect. I dislike the original only 1 henchmen manner, I hated the non stop resting, and insta teleport also got on my nerves. Of course, the expansions have fixed those problems.

Now, I forsee lots of flame coming myw ay (or people ignoring this post). LOL

 

[Vault Dweller]

" For example, we all know that Volourn is an evil jerk, that aint news, but it would be amusing to know how Volourn sees him/her/itself."

Okay then. Post the following as news if you dare:

Volourn sees itself as evil bastard who is a moronic retard.

I said amusing, not newsworthy. :wink:

"And that relates to the news post ... how?"

It be obvious to the intelligent.

So, you don't know and still waiting for someone to explain that to you?

"I didn't enjoy all Bio games, I definitely didn't enjoy NWN, and I didn't buy the expansions."

Only the gullible would take that as proof.

May I borrow a line from you? "It be obvious to the intelligent"

 

[bgillisp]

Thanks for the opinion. I seem to get the impression you are used to flame wars anyways. At least this is what I gather from my lurking days.

I do agree the GB games had crap for story for the most part. Look at Secret of the Silver Blades. Terrible story, if you can call it that. And, what were they thinking with Pools of Darkness? Lousy story, near impossible end fight...still the only game I have never beaten the end battle on normal difficulty to date.

Though, I did like Wizard 7 and 8's story. thought it was decent. Not awesome, but decent. Only played 6 onwards, never played the others.

Maybe what I disliked about NWN was I played it right after TOEE. So, I was used to the combat system, and hated the NWN system. Possible explanation. Maybe I will check it out if I get bored this summer. Still need to play the new Freedom Force game first though. Anyone play it yet?

 

[Volourn]

"Possible explanation. Maybe I will check it out if I get bored this summer."

Just remmeber, do not expect the best story ever with the OC. it's ok. Though; it's story is better than TOEE's. <> That's a whole 'nother issue.


"I seem to get the impression you are used to flame wars anyways."

LOL Yeah. It's great to come to the 'net and have some fun flaming wher ein the end it means nothing. I'd rather take aprt in Net Drama where it is easily ignored than RL drama, anyways.


"Though, I did like Wizard 7 and 8's story."

I stopped playing Wizardrys before that though. I liek thes eries; but ti just got to be there.

 

[bgillisp]

You mean TOEE had a story? Must have missed it . I still managed to get through TOEE, once I treated it as the dungeon crawler it was.

Then again, I managed to finish Secret of the Silver blades too, and that was a terrible story, probably worse than TOEE's. But, I was bored that summer too, and only 13 at the time, so I think it explains a lot.

 

[triCritical]

I don\'t really like the dudes use of nonlinear. I think as far as choices are concerned, its not really non-linear, rather two different linear paths, which for the most part are the same. Furthermore, Its not enough to create multiple hubs and then allow freedom in the order you do things, and call it non-linearity. I would just call something like this piecewise linear and the only game that Bioware did in which they got away with it was BG. Although, as a result it suffered from balancing issues, but not really considering most maps were still shut off until linear progression allowed you to come in.

I have also never seen a non-linear CRPG wihout guidance, which sort of makes that feature pointless as well. But pehap the necessity for Bioware to make you feel as if you fulfilling some dream, is what makes their stories so damn lame.

 

[triCritical]

You mean TOEE had a story? Must have missed it . I still managed to get through TOEE, once I treated it as the dungeon crawler it was.

Then again, I managed to finish Secret of the Silver blades too, and that was a terrible story, probably worse than TOEE\'s. But, I was bored that summer too, and only 13 at the time, so I think it explains a lot.

Uh, yeah it actually had a big glaring story. Its one thing to say that it had a bad story, shallow story or a Bio.. err lame story. But its another to say that something that clearly has a story has no story. Might and Magic 1\'s story is definately questionable.

 

[bgillisp]

I was kidding about TOEE's story, couldn't you tell? Though, I would say it really fell short, as it did not really seem to have much of one at times. I would not say it had a big glaring story though.

And, MM1 is very questionable, I do agree. I did play that game, and felt there was no direction whatsoever. You just made your characters, and had to figure out everything from there. No backstory, nothing.

Seems a lot of older games were like that, in my opinion. Don't recall any names right now. Anyone else recall any that just dumped your characters in the middle of nowhere, no guildance, nothing?

 

[Volourn]

I belive that comment is to be taken tongue and cheek. Every "RPG" has a story. When someone says 'the game had a story?" it's usually a sarcastic way of stating the story sucked. LOL Come on. You are smart enough to know this, Tri.

 

[bgillisp]

Same goes for almost any game. Almost every game has some story, though for some, if you blink, you miss it. Tetris did not have a story though. Maybe someone could come up with one for it? Wonder what that would be like? Earth will be destroyed unless you fill up 500 lines, now go save Earth!

Hmmm...I might have a blockbuster on my hands with this .

 

[Volourn]

There ya go. Instead of selling the million sof copies Tetris did; if it had your story idea it had sold billions!

 

[bgillisp]

And, what if we made it an RPG somehow? Though, the way the mass market is, I think it would hurt sales.

New idea: An RPG - disguised as Tetris. Maybe I should not give developers any ideas, they just might take me seriously.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

NWN SI TEH SUXZORZ!!!11 LEWLEWLEWLEWL!!11!11

 

[Kamaz]

There ya go. Instead of selling the million sof copies Tetris did; if it had your story idea it had sold billions!

No, it wouldnt. People buy Tetris because of its simplicity and amazing ability to kill time. Add story and you have got a loser. Not all games need story. Many games are great simply with their other values, like, gameplay.

Though, on this particular matter, I'd comment that BW games tend to be bilinear - as triCritical said - two pathes, good or evil, open or closed (sounds lame, though) and so on.

There is particulary nothing wrong about it, I respect BW more than any companies, developers simply because they manage to make games, RPG games and earn as profit, as fame. Myself, I havent finished none of the BW games because somehow in the middle I got allways pissed off. Like BG felt really boring and I couldnt force myself further than the first chapter, KOTOR made me furious with its unskipable cutscenes and "You are JEDI even if you dont want" style (which really pissed me off, since I truly hate Jedis and Siths as a kind).

So, yes, its lack of roleplaying, that makes me turn off of the BW games. But even then I truly respect the company because they have talent to make RPG and earn money the same time. That is awesome.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I'll take Bioware's bilinearity over the pointlessness of TOEE and Morrowind. While I enjoy open-endedness, I certainly hope that Bethesda can issue some constraints in Oblivion's storyline to give the game direction it deserves.

 

[Shagnak]

I'm willing to take any of the approaches.
"Bilinearity", open-endedpointlessness, linearity, as long as there are other things present to make up for it.

Elite was "open-minded pointlessness", but I still loved it, even if it was ultimately inter-galactic munchkinism.

Morrowind may have had a lot of open-ended pointlessness, but it also had a linear central story line. That disappointed people in both camps I guess! (But not me, but then again look at my sig :wink: )