Interview Chris Avellone on the Second-Hand Gaming Market

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: Chris Avellone; Obsidian Entertainment

<p>After his&nbsp;<span>&nbsp;<a href="http://www.industrygamers.com/news/chris-avellone-obsidians-chief-rpg-designer/" target="_blank">"</a></span><span><em><a href="http://www.industrygamers.com/news/chris-avellone-obsidians-chief-rpg-designer/" target="_blank">I hope digital distribution stabs the used game market in the heart."&nbsp;</a></em></span>&nbsp;triggered a few negative responses, <a href="http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=933439#933439" target="_blank">MCA clarified the issue</a>.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Thanks, -----. I can understand the greed label by folks, and I appreciate your take on it. That's not my reasoning, although I admit that my reasoning and research stemmed from financial frustration.&nbsp;</p>
<p>We're not independent, we run month to month based on the graciousness of our publishers and our deliverables, and we've had to let people go solely for financial reasons, not for performance reasons. I've had to let those people go personally, even after not being paid myself and other folks have taken pay cuts. It really makes you examine where the money goes.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>That said, the used game market is not to blame for this.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>In short, let me explain:&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>- People are free to sell their purchased games whenever they want. They're like books, cars, your DVDs, etc. This is customary, accepted, and makes sense based on our market.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>- When I say "market," that's too broad for what I mean, and I should clarify. I'll refine that by saying that I wish people would be more careful of the market who they re-sell to, as some institutions I have no respect for and I don't believe they deserve the re-sell business that are given to them - not only because of their business practices with regards to used titles, but other practices those institutions are engaged in that makes me no longer shop there. That said, the concept of selling used games is not to blame and people are free to sell to whoever they want.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>- Lastly, I believe the end result is people want cheaper games. It's why you sell games back in the first place - to get some of the&nbsp;</p>
<p>initial money back. I firmly believe digital distribution makes costs lower, based on my personal experience it makes the games better, and while this may be a PC/Steam-centric attitude, some Steam sales are pretty insane. Furthermore, digital distribution on Steam makes me play many more games than I would otherwise because of the exposure and how the market is organized on the menu screen.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Anyway. Hope this helps. I'd be happy to discuss any of this further.&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Chris&nbsp;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><em>We're not independent, we run month to month based on the graciousness of our publishers and our deliverables, and we've had to let people go solely for financial reasons, not for performance reasons. I've had to let those people go personally, even after not being paid myself and other folks have taken pay cuts. It really makes you examine where the money goes.&nbsp;</em></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>The situation at Obsidian must be worse than expected.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/106137-chris-avellone-on-the-second-hand-gaming-market.html">Gamebanshee</a></p>

 

[made]

Now that publishers have a way to extort more money from pirates than they would earn from actual sales, it's time to move on to the next scapegoat.

 

[Roguey]

"Fucking GameStop."--Chris Avellone
"Wait wait wait, I never actually said 'GameStop' you can't attribute that to me, I love GameStop and I love the continued coverage of South Park: The Game by Game Informer, the official magazine of GameStop Inc."--Chris Avellone for real

I wonder if those events he's talking about are recent or just the triumvirate of failure Seven Dwarves/Alpha Protocol/Aliens-era Obsidian.

 

[Menckenstein]

That's what you get for delivering Alpha Protocol as it was, Chris.

 

[Zarniwoop]

On our next episode: Big industry scumbags players call Steam Holiday Sales "worse than piracy, second-hand games, and Hitler combined"

 

[Dantus12]

"Firepower mate! Separates the Men from the boys. "

Or better:Don't fuck with those that feed You!

He should have learned by now that, such comments about used markets backfire the latest when things like Gamefly acquire D2Drive that is ownership of IGN , and the perfect ability to get high ratings and publicity is now in the hands of a used/renting firm, and can be directly influenced by it.
Same thing what Roguey said , He shouldn't meddle and whine about finances, when stating that finances are not in His hands.

They would do well at Zenimax, free marketing in many European places as part of the PRO Sieben Group.They would be censored on content mostly Mature, but at least they would not lose people in long therms.

 

[Phelot]

Is he complaining about places like Gamestop that buy used games for like $1 and then resell them for way more?

 

[Zarniwoop]

He's complaining about anyone that sells any games second-hand. The publishers don't get their $$$ that way, see. Which is why I'm predicting the next thing they'll blame for "the death of vidyagames" will be things like the Steam sale.

 

[Brother None]

Is he complaining about places like Gamestop that buy used games for like $1 and then resell them for way more?

Yes, that's p much exactly what he's complaining about. The broken market and the archaic methods of it that should be replaced by the digital market.

It's easy to ascribe more dubious motives to his thinking, and you might not be wrong, he needs to make money after all, but that's not what he's saying.

 

[villain of the story]

He's complaining about anyone that sells any games second-hand.

Back to the English class, chav.

 

[Zarniwoop]

He's complaining about anyone that sells any games second-hand.

Back to the English class, chav.

Yes, super genius, I know that in this case he's being specific, but this attack on selling any games second hand in general has been going on for a long time and you know it very well. It's always more hilarious to be an asshole though, so carry on.

 

[Phelot]

It is kind of a strange argument. I don't think Honda and Ford complain about Crazy Dave's Used Car Lot, so what's the big deal with stores like Gamespot?

I do think those stores are rip offs, though. I'm not kidding, they'll give you $1-5 store credit (lolwut?!) and then push the game for $30 or so. Bullshit considering digital stores would likely sell for cheaper, but still.

 

[commie]

Which is why I'm predicting the next thing they'll blame for "the death of vidyagames" will be things like the Steam sale.

But Steam is responsible for the REBIRTH of vidyagames as can be seen by the countless quality Indie productions it hosts. It's what the Codex has been dreaming of for decades, isn't it?

I do think those stores are rip offs, though. I'm not kidding, they'll give you $1-5 store credit (lolwut?!) and then push the game for $30 or so. Bullshit considering digital stores would likely sell for cheaper, but still.

I wish they had offered me credit of $1 when I was selling my old PC games at Cash Converters back in the late 90's instead of the $25 per copy for a 5 1/4 inch game from 1990! I wouldn't have been tempted to sell all my classic games and those wonderful boxes just because I couldn't play them anymore and thought that "no bother, every year just keeps bringing better and better games anyway, so I won't miss these"....

 

[Excidium]

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I wish they had offered me credit of $1 when I was selling my old PC games at Cash Converters back in the late 90's instead of the $25 per copy for a 5 1/4 inch game from 1990! I wouldn't have been tempted to sell all my classic games and those wonderful boxes just because I couldn't play them anymore and thought that "no bother, every year just keeps bringing better and better games anyway, so I won't miss these"....

FFS. What a tragedy.

 

[Wunderpurps]

So if you are eating a meal with a bear every day and he always gives you 2% of the food, just enough to keep you alive to wash the dishes another day, do you really think if the meal were ten times as big you would get the same share?

There's plenty of money for developers already, publishers just don't give a shit if their slave companies continue to exist. If Obshitian folds then the same people will still be in the industry under some new company like Onyx or Sable entertainment. The publishers will just hire them at subsistence wages on a project by project basis instead. They get all the talent and never have to individually hire people or pay raises or benefits. Perfect system! As far as publishers are concerned, anyway.

 

[MuscleSpark]

It is kind of a strange argument. I don't think Honda and Ford complain about Crazy Dave's Used Car Lot, so what's the big deal with stores like Gamespot?

Physical goods depreciate, digital ones don't (yet).

 

[Johnny the Mule]

OH LOOK
A HONEST UNFILTERED THOUGHT SLIPPED THROUGH THE FACADE
QUICK!!! TO THE REVISEMOBILE!!!

 

[commie]

I wish they had offered me credit of $1 when I was selling my old PC games at Cash Converters back in the late 90's instead of the $25 per copy for a 5 1/4 inch game from 1990! I wouldn't have been tempted to sell all my classic games and those wonderful boxes just because I couldn't play them anymore and thought that "no bother, every year just keeps bringing better and better games anyway, so I won't miss these"....

FFS. What a tragedy.

Tell me about it. I sold my big box Fallout in pristine condition as well....Don't know what the fuck I was thinking then, possibly that I was going to pick it up again in a bargain basement sale and PROFIT? They were still many copies of Fallout in the big boxes on shelves at the time in one store at a price less than what I got for it at the 2nd hand place, but by the time I could make a trip to the store in question they were all gone. What a sad fucking joke when you see what Fallout boxes are going for online now! I would have done far better to have just bought 10 boxes or so for the future! Oh but I shouldn't complain, after all I got $30 dollars for it!


FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

"We're not independent"

This statement should be one of financial security, which shouldn't need complaints about used games.
But then...

"we run month to month based on the graciousness of our publishers"

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

Again?

 

[Phelot]

Tell me about it. I sold my big box Fallout in pristine condition as well....Don't know what the fuck I was thinking then, possibly that I was going to pick it up again in a bargain basement sale and PROFIT? They were still many copies of Fallout in the big boxes on shelves at the time in one store at a price less than what I got for it at the 2nd hand place, but by the time I could make a trip to the store in question they were all gone. What a sad fucking joke when you see what Fallout boxes are going for online now! I would have done far better to have just bought 10 boxes or so for the future! Oh but I shouldn't complain, after all I got $30 dollars for it!


FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

While I saved the games, I threw away all my game boxes which looking back I can't believe I did.

I saved a few choice ones like Wing Commander, Ultima 4, and Syndicate, but the vast majority were sent off to the prestigious shelf in the sky aka New Jersey Recycling Program

 

[Grim Monk]

Looks like MCA has failed a speech check, and must roll again.

He must apply more of his dialogue writing skills to himself.

 

[EG]

Simple, Phelot. You thought next year would bring better, shinier, newer boxes and greater games within! Games that'd make those we already bought look like shit.

Oh, what fools we were.

 

[Forest Dweller]

It is kind of a strange argument. I don't think Honda and Ford complain about Crazy Dave's Used Car Lot, so what's the big deal with stores like Gamespot?

It's because the automobile industry is a mature market and everyone in it knows that some people will always want things cheaper and are willing to suffer the downsides in order to get it that way. They accept it as an inevitable part of life and don't try to fight it. Video game publishers (and looks like developers too - shame on you MCA) need to grow the fuck up and realize the same instead of trying underhand tactics like the Catwoman bullshit in Arkham City in order to try to force more people to buy it new. Seriously, this shit pisses me off.