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Interview Gamebanshee Wasteland 2 Interview with Chris Avellone

Crooked Bee

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Tags: Brian Fargo; Chris Avellone; Kickstarter; Wasteland 2

With the assumption that the $2.1 million milestone is going to be reached, Gamebanshee have interviewed Chris Avellone on his potential input on Wasteland 2.

GB: Jason Anderson already spent a great deal of time working on Wasteland 2's storyline, and Brian Fargo has already made it pretty clear what the team's design goals are for the game. Assuming you'll reach the $2.1 million milestone, where does Obsidian Entertainment come in? Will you be tweaking existing story elements, adding more, or contributing in other areas?

Chris: It’s up to the design goals of the project. While Jason Anderson isn’t at inXile anymore, I have a lot of respect for Jason's story skills based on Fallout 1 and the story layouts for Fallout 2. I suspect I'd be doing area and narrative design, and fleshing out a piece of the wasteland, but we'll have to see what the needs of the project are.

Also, a game story is always a starting place - it provides an overarching vision for the game. If it’s anything like Obsidian’s narrative structure process, stories and areas get divided for individual designers to flesh out – it’s easy to say “Quartz is taken over by a gang that’s holding the mayor hostage,” or “New Reno is home to 4 mob bosses” but going from there is a long, fun design journey.

GB: Could Obsidian's Onyx engine handle a top-down/isometric perspective and a turn-based combat system like inXile is shooting for with Wasteland 2? If so, have you talked to Brian about the possibility of licensing your Onyx engine, if only to make it easier for you and the rest of the team at Obsidian to contribute content at a faster pace?

Chris: Sure. To be clear, the Onyx engine isn't being used for Wasteland 2 - that said, there's information and structure components we can share based on how we've constructed RPG mechanics (notably conversation systems and editors, for example) that Brian has expressed interest in and we'd be happy to provide metrics and layout suggestions for. All of the programming and coding is in inXile's hands, however, as our programmers and tools programmers are focused on our other titles.

GB: You've hinted at the prospect that Obsidian Entertainment might pursue their own Kickstarter project in the near future. Does your collaboration on Wasteland 2 affect those plans at all? If not, when might we see a crowd-funded Obsidian project surface?

Chris: No, it won't affect our own Kickstarter projects. We do feel that there was a lot of benefit in learning from Brian's experience with Kickstarter, and I believe there's a lot of smart ways he engineered the process that I'd love to learn from, both in what's shown to the public and how he strategizes internally. Also, Brian's a good guy... I'm sure if we ever came out with a project and asked for help, he'd be willing to put in a good word with us with the community - just as he's already done extensive efforts to "Kicking it Forward" already.

GB: As someone who has worked on previous titles with player-created parties (notably the Icewind Dale series and Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir), how do you approach narrative design in a party-based game (Wasteland 2) vs. a single protagonist game (Fallout: New Vegas)? What are the primary areas that you need to get right in order to make the experience as fulfilling as possible to both story-seeking and tactically-oriented player types?

Chris: It's a matter of how you design the conversation systems to allow for the inputs of individual characters and allow those individuals to make skill or experience-based contributions.

Equally important, you also want to allow for checks and conditionals where the person you're speaking with can react to the actions of any individual within the group where it makes sense (Ex: “Hey, you there – I see you got a sniper rifle... if you know how to use it, I have a job for you.”). This isn't as hard to do as it may seem, although it's a subject for larger discussion and often comes down to how you want to present that mechanic and reactivity to the player (I feel Storm of Zehir and Icewind Dale accomplished this, although Storm of Zehir felt more elegant to me - and to give thanks where thanks is due, we owe that to the design lead Tony Evans and the UI programmer at the time, Anthony Davis, who got that system in and working).

The short goal: As long as people feel that their individual party members matter, not just in the battlefield, but in other interactions as well, that's what you're shooting for.​

Read the interview in full here.
 

Crooked Bee

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In related news:

mca_troll.png


:love:
 

Grunker

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My feelings on Wasteland 2 are so fucking mixed. I donated (anything for just a small chance to revert the decline), but still... I can't help having this eerie feeling.
 

Mrowak

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My feelings on Wasteland 2 are so fucking mixed. I donated (anything for just a small chance to revert the decline), but still... I can't help having this eerie feeling.

Yes, I know what you mean. It's a little bit like someone is trolling us with all the goodness that happened - Bioware fucking up ME3, of all the people former Bioware employees kickstarting a turn-based tactical RPG, AoD demo being released and finally the promise of Wasteland 2 - but was about to pull out the plug.

Deep down your heart you just know that Bioware will make amends with a stupid-ass ending DLC every Biodrone will buy, the former Bioware employees will escape with all the money they collected to Costarica, AoD will suck as the result of all the changes implemented in the short period of time, and Wasteland 2 will never see the light of the day because there won't be any nosey accountant counting every cent the team will be scuandering on pizzas, hookers and beer. The world just doesn't work the way we would want to.

Ok, call it paranoia ;). Still, against my better judgement, I will donate another $65 today.
 
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How is Chris' responses different from what he's already attempted in Obsidian's previous games? Basically he could have replied with one sentence stating "Obsidian will be bringing what we know to the table, but Brian has the final say".

$1 Dollar thaaank you!
 

Oesophagus

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My feelings on Wasteland 2 are so fucking mixed. I donated (anything for just a small chance to revert the decline), but still... I can't help having this eerie feeling.

Yes, I know what you mean. It's a little bit like someone is trolling us with all the goodness that happened - Bioware fucking up ME3, of all the people former Bioware employees kickstarting a turn-based tactical RPG, AoD demo being released and finally the promise of Wasteland 2 - but was about to pull out the plug.

Deep down your heart you just know that Bioware will make amends with a stupid-ass ending DLC every Biodrone will buy, the former Bioware employees will escape with all the money they collected to Costarica, AoD will suck as the result of all the changes implemented in the short period of time, and Wasteland 2 will never see the light of the day because there won't be any nosey accountant counting every cent the team will be scuandering on pizzas, hookers and beer. The world just doesn't work the way we would want to.

Ok, call it paranoia ;). Still, against my better judgement, I will donate another $65 today.

I guess that's because if W2 doesn't cut it, then all hope is lost. Really, it's all or nothing here. If W2 succeeds then perhaps publishers will take notice of the fact that turn based old shool rpgs are still a viable market. If it fails then it's just the final nail in the coffin, and we will look forward to more streamlined gameplay and emotional engagements.

I'm optimistic, however. If Fargo keeps his head straight, then I don't see why W2 shouldn't be at least a good rpg.
 

Semper

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If W2 succeeds then perhaps publishers will take notice of the fact that turn based old shool rpgs are still a viable market.

to make this happen they have to sell at least 3-5mio copies to attract the attention of big publishers. they already know that there's and always'll be a niche market for this kinda game but the copies sold are way too low for a triple a production with a sky high budget. no publisher or shareholder is interested in a "small" gain of 10mio or lower.
 

Oesophagus

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to make this happen they have to sell at least 3-5mio copies to attract the attention of big publishers. they already know that there's and always'll be a niche market for this kinda game but the copies sold are way too low for a triple a production with a sky high budget. no publisher or shareholder is interested in a "small" gain of 10mio or lower.

True, but they may at least take the rpg fabase into consideration when making future titles. Anyway, the big deal is that inXile can possible make a living out of this. We don't really need a big name to make the games that we want. And also, if this works, Obsidian's next up for a kickstarter.
 

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This isn't as hard to do as it may seem, although it's a subject for larger discussion and often comes down to how you want to present that mechanic and reactivity to the player (I feel Storm of Zehir and Icewind Dale accomplished this, although Storm of Zehir felt more elegant to me - and to give thanks where thanks is due, we owe that to the design lead Tony Evans and the UI programmer at the time, Anthony Davis, who got that system in and working).
The short goal: As long as people feel that their individual party members matter, not just in the battlefield, but in other interactions as well, that's what you're shooting for.​

Exactly my thoughts. Storm of Zehir accomplished something really good here. In fact if SoZ system would have been in place (including overlandtravel) NWN2 would have been a great game. I like the sound of including a similar dialogsystem into W2.
 

Haba

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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
My feelings on Wasteland 2 are so fucking mixed. I donated (anything for just a small chance to revert the decline), but still... I can't help having this eerie feeling.

Yes, I know what you mean. It's a little bit like someone is trolling us with all the goodness that happened - Bioware fucking up ME3, of all the people former Bioware employees kickstarting a turn-based tactical RPG, AoD demo being released and finally the promise of Wasteland 2 - but was about to pull out the plug.

It will just keep getting better. AoD will be finalized after massive fixes in a short time, Wasteland 2 will have a playable beta on horizon, Xenonauts will prove to be the true spiritual successor to X-Com, Cleve will start taking pre-orders for Grimoire, Codexers will fund a codex-driven dream RPG project leaded by Chris Avellone...

...and then the world ends. On Wednesday.
 

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I too hope they take inspiration from Storm of Zehir's dialogue system. It's very well-suited to a party-based game where different party members have different strengths and weaknesses.
 

Cosmo

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Having read a lot of MCA interviews, i think he is well-suited to this task : he often insists on one thing concerning his experience as a DM, a thing that can apply to party-based RPGs. This thing is creating opportunities for every character type during location and quest-design. That's basically by doing this that he learned design and there's no reason he'll try to enforce a torment-like approach to the game.
 

Mrowak

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I too hope they take inspiration from Storm of Zehir's dialogue system. It's very well-suited to a party-based game where different party members have different strengths and weaknesses.

Yeah, but it would be cool if you couldn't see the whole content the game has to offer even with that mechanic. SoZ is partially so cool because you can't accomplish everything with the party you have no matter what. There were always som "hidden" options for Druids, Rangers, Dragon Disciples, and you simply couldn't have all those classes in the party.
 

Semper

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I too hope they take inspiration from Storm of Zehir's dialogue system. It's very well-suited to a party-based game where different party members have different strengths and weaknesses.

imo that's also the weakest point of such a party conversation. the dialogue and the connected checks become meaningless because you can just switch to the character with the perfect stats for the given check. you simply roll through dialogue.
 

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I too hope they take inspiration from Storm of Zehir's dialogue system. It's very well-suited to a party-based game where different party members have different strengths and weaknesses.

imo that's also the weakest point of such a party conversation. the dialogue and the connected checks become meaningless because you can just switch to the character with the perfect stats for the given check. you simply roll through dialogue.

That's not inherent to the system. It is possible to make it so that certain responses are locked out after you've gone deep enough in the conversation with a certain character, so that switching can't help you.
 

Crooked Bee

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I too hope they take inspiration from Storm of Zehir's dialogue system. It's very well-suited to a party-based game where different party members have different strengths and weaknesses.

imo that's also the weakest point of such a party conversation. the dialogue and the connected checks become meaningless because you can just switch to the character with the perfect stats for the given check. you simply roll through dialogue.

Well, I hope a single party won't be able to exhaust all possible options or max out everything. That'd be just bad (i.e., too easy) design.

EDIT: Also, what Mrowak and Infinitron said.
 

Mrowak

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I too hope they take inspiration from Storm of Zehir's dialogue system. It's very well-suited to a party-based game where different party members have different strengths and weaknesses.

imo that's also the weakest point of such a party conversation. the dialogue and the connected checks become meaningless because you can just switch to the character with the perfect stats for the given check. you simply roll through dialogue.

Well, I hope a single party won't be able to exhaust all possible options or max out everything. That'd be just bad (i.e., too easy) design.

EDIT: Also, what Mrowak and Infinitron said.

One way of fixing the issue would be employing skill synergies between party members with similar skill setups. For example, let's say you have two members with high [Speech] skill. This enables you to enter conversations otherwise blocked if you had just one charismatic party member e.g. playing good cop - bad cop routine. However having two more charismatic party members would mean there's less place for medics, demolitions experts, scouts, scientists etc.
 

Infinitron

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One way of fixing the issue would be employing skill synergies between party members with similar skill setups. For example, let's say you have two members with high [Speech] skill. This enables you to enter conversations otherwise blocked if you had just one charismatic party member e.g. playing good cop - bad cop routine. However having two more charismatic party members would mean there's less place for medics, demolitions experts, scouts, scientists etc.

Exactly! I meant something like that when I mentioned 'conversation combos' (edited it out since), but you phrased it much better.
 

grotsnik

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The sniper-rifle example is interesting, because IIRC, SoZ's conversation checks, despite their breadth, could be pretty half-assed in how they actually engaged with dialogues and quests, and I don't think they ever had NPCs openly reacting to the party from the start*. There were quite a few conversations where the NPC would deliver some information, a party member would get to say (Spellcraft) 'Ah! I already know about this!' or (Intimidate) 'Get to the point!'...and then the dialogue would continue as per normal.

If they are going down a similar route for W2, I'd like to see them go nuts with something a lot more involved and finickety: the locals see your low-intelligence, low-charisma, high-strength dimwit party-member and want to buy him off you as a circus freak, your ranger equipping a lab coat gets mistaken for a doctor and gets asked to perform a triple-heart bypass, your bluffer can manipulate your well-read type into pretending to be a prophet of a new religion, etc, etc.


*Not true, as it turns out - I've been reading the dialogue in-editor and you get a couple of drow who react to the gender of the PC initiating conversation, and some mindflayers will momentarily mistake a gnome PC for a slave.
 

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