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Editorial Joystiq: Best Class System in RPGs Belongs to Wizardry VII

Crooked Bee

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Tags: DW Bradley; SirTech; Wizardry VII: Crusaders Of The Dark Savant

Joystiq's Rowan Kaiser has penned an editorial that hails Wizardry VII's class system as the best thing to happen the genre and attempts to promote it to your average layman. Here's a couple of tidbits:

The most impressive class system I've seen in an RPG is in 1992's Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant (as well as its less well-known predecessor, Bane Of The Cosmic Forge). What initially appears to be a straightforward, rigid D&D-style system is given massive depth by two things: the importance of racial base stats in determining class, and a dynamic system that allows for both massive improvement and possible disaster. It's possibly the most in-depth system I've seen in any RPG, and one that I wish was more well-known.

[...] This is the greatest strength of the Wizardry VII engine. It allows you to develop your characters in any number of different fashions. The most normal method may be to start with six fairly simple characters – two fighters, a thief, and three magic-users, and convert them all permanently to more powerful classes like Samurai and Lords when they can change. Or you can build a party of characters designed to constantly switch to and from certain prestige classes like the Valkyrie or Ranger which keep most or all statistics high as well as fairly even. You could never change character classes during the entire game. Some people have even found it possible to play through the game with a single character!

I've never found a game with as deep or effective of a class system as Wizardry VII. The closest comparison is the Final Fantasy V/Tactics system, which allows you to maintain the skills of your old class after switching to a new one, although it lacks the complexity or potential for failure of Wizardry VII. Even the more accessible sequel, Wizardry VIII (2001), did away with critical components of this system. Wizardry VI/VII stand alone with the deepest, most powerful, and best class systems in RPG history. They're difficult, but well worth the trouble.​

You can read the thing in full if you just click here.
 

eric__s

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Isn't Rowan Kaiser the guy you all hate and talk shit about constantly? Guess you owe somebody an apology.

He's using pictures from Wizardry Gold : (
 

Infinitron

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Isn't Rowan Kaiser the guy you all hate and talk shit about constantly? Guess you owe somebody an apology.

He's using pictures from Wizardry Gold : (

Rowan is one of the great stopped clocks of the world.
 

eric__s

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I've been thinking about why the Wizardry 6/7 class system is so good recently and I think it has to do with the fact that each class is made up of lego bricks, or abilities. Basic classes only have one lego brick - fighters have the fighter lego brick, mages have the mage lego brick - but more advanced classes have more bricks - rangers have the fighter, thief and alchemist brick, bards have the thief and mage bricks. None of the advanced classes have anything unique to themselves, they're just more bricks stacked onto one another, giving them more versatility. The really great thing about it, though, is that when you switch classes, you don't lose any of the lego bricks you already have. If you switch from bishop to ranger, you have both the bishop's priest and mage bricks and the ranger's fighter, thief and alchemist bricks. In a lot of ways, it's like starting out with a castle lego set and then putting in parts from the space station set, and then the town set, and then the caveman set until you've got the best parts from the best sets all put together. It's this structural flexibility that makes Wizardry 6/7 so good.

In response to Jaesun, I think the only real difference is the amount of time you get to spend with it. It's a lot easier to never switch classes in 6 because the game is shorter and more linear. It's in 7 where you have more of an opportunity to develop your guys, but I think they're mechanically the same.
 

Duckard

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It's in 7 where you have more of an opportunity to develop your guys

It's less like an opportunity and more like a necessity. Reduces the amount of grinding and backtracking you need to do considerably. Then again, I'm sure if you had 3 years to spend on the game you could beat it without class switching.

Anyway, feel like Wiz 6 and 7 class system tends to lead to who are extremely skilled in various disciplines, so everyone is great at hiding and alchemy and thaumaturgy, etc. This doesn't really happen in Wiz 6, but wiz 7 is longer, and you have more time to develop your characters. So although Wiz 7's class system is more memorable, it can also result in more homogenized characters.
 

Cenobyte

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To be honest, I like the system in Wiz 8 more than the system in Wiz 6/7.

The d100 system is very straightforward, easy to understand and use, and allows for enough flexibility to make it interesting and add to the replayability of the game. In contrast, in Wiz 6/7, you're too much dependent on luck.
 

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Wasn't Wiz VII (and before) the system where you had to constantly relod before levelling up, because randomness could completely fuck up your plan for a character?
If so, then yeah, a really well thought out system... :M
 

Jaesun

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Wasn't Wiz VII (and before) the system where you had to constantly relod before levelling up, because randomness could completely fuck up your plan for a character?
If so, then yeah, a really well thought out system... :M

Yeah. That was rather RAGE inducing.
 

mondblut

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None of the advanced classes have anything unique to themselves, they're just more bricks stacked onto one another, giving them more versatility.

Wrong. Bards are unique in that they can use music instruments. Non-bards cannot use them, even if they previously had a tenure as bards and studied music skill. Ninjas and monks improve their AC as they level up, and they lose that bonus when they switch class. Other classes have their quirks as well, a valkyrie is not the same as a lord despite both being "fighter-priests".
 

mondblut

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Wasn't Wiz VII (and before) the system where you had to constantly relod before levelling up, because randomness could completely fuck up your plan for a character?
If so, then yeah, a really well thought out system... :M

Yeah. That was rather RAGE inducing.

Pfft, those who have no stomach for savescumming have no place playing RPGs. Enjoy your skyrimjobs and ass effects :decline:
 

Bruma Hobo

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Autism_3.jpg
 

Bruma Hobo

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You can still count matches on the floor... But what about the rest of us?
 

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