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Review Pillars of Eternity reviewed at RPGWatch

Zed

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Tags: Obsidian Entertainment; Pillars of Eternity

It's the review we have all been waiting for. After the Codex' penultimate review, it is time for RPGWatch to lay down the final verdict on Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity. Finally!
The review is mostly positive, and stands in stark contrast to Darth Roxor's review of the game.

Some of my comments on this game may seem overly harsh, however, the bottom line is that I really liked and enjoyed this game. It accomplished what it set out to do, was relatively bug free, and hopefully showed the ‘Big Time Developers/Publishers’ that there is still a market for these Old School games. It may not be perfect and there are definitely a number of design decisions I did not care for, but the overall package was greater than the sum of its parts. Bring on the sequel.​

Let's not forget about RPGWatch's Pro-Con-Ratings summary.

Pros

Great story and writing
Excellent character creation
Fabulous quests
Based on the old IE games

Cons

Combat can be a mess
Little or no XP for combat
Some good ideas poorly implemented
Last part of game gets tedious​

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Chalk that down as an 80%-er, Metacritic.
 

Ogg

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Combat can be a mess
Why are they all saying that? It's sure not as clear as a turn based game. But if there's one thing I'm sure is better in POE than in any IE game, it's the readability and clarity of combats.
 

HiddenX

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Tags: Obsidian Entertainment; Pillars of Eternity
The review is mostly positive, and stands in stark contrast to Darth Roxor's review of the game.

Wrong - both reviews criticize a lot of design decisions, but - as always - the Watch is more polite than the Codex.
PoE is NOT a masterpiece, but a game worth playing.
I hope PoE2 will be an enhancement to PoE1 like BG2 was to BG1.

PS:
And I really hope that PoE2 will feature turn-based combat, more world interactivity, more C&C and NPC-schedules.
 

Zed

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Tags: Obsidian Entertainment; Pillars of Eternity
The review is mostly positive, and stands in stark contrast to Darth Roxor's review of the game.

Wrong - both reviews criticize a lot of design decisions, but - as always - the Watch is more polite than the Codex.
PoE is NOT a masterpiece, but a game worth playing.
I hope PoE2 will be an enhancement to PoE1 like BG2 was to BG1.

PS:
And I really hope that PoE2 will feature turn-based combat, more world interactivity, more C&C and NPC-schedules.
One review is short and holistic, and thinks the game is good.
The other review is long and relatively in-depth, and thinks the game is shit.
 

HiddenX

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Zed you are really not used to the language code at the Watch.

RPGWatch: there are definitely a number of design decisions I did not care for.

in Codex language:

RPGCodex: this amateur Josh should go back to school and play some Pool of Radiance to learn how a proper party based RPG should be designed.
 

FeelTheRads

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Zed you are really not used to the language code at the Watch.

RPGWatch: there are definitely a number of design decisions I did not care for.

in Codex language:

RPGCodex: this amateur Josh should go back to school and play some Pool of Radiance to learn how a proper party based RPG should be designed.

And which you say is the faggy one and which is the honest one?
Assuming they both want to say the same thing, of course.
 

Zed

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Zed you are really not used to the language code at the Watch.

RPGWatch: there are definitely a number of design decisions I did not care for.

in Codex language:

RPGCodex: this amateur Josh should go back to school and play some Pool of Radiance to learn how a proper party based RPG should be designed.
oh so they hate the game but give it 4 out of 5 stars. hokay-dokay.
 
Self-Ejected

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One review is short and holistic, and thinks the game is good.
The other review is long and relatively in-depth, and thinks the game is shit.

The Watch review is based on very detailed information, it's just provided in a separate post (already linked to by Zorba):

I. Defining Features


The three core categories Character Development, Exploration and Story that need to be applied and quantified to determine if an interactive computerized game can be labeled as a Computer Role Playing Game (hereafter referred to as CRPG) are listed to show the necessary component elements and qualifying factors.

i. Must Have

Any proposed or purported CRPG must contain all three core categories and their essential necessary Must Have conditions fulfilled to achieve the (minimal) CRPG status.

These core categories must maintain some form of progressive nature that will improve from when the game starts and leads to a conclusive game ending.

1. Character Development
Describes ways to create, change or enhance your characters in order to increase their effectiveness in the game.
  • MC1: You can control and role-play one or more unique characters (➙ avatar or party, not only uniform units.) Yes
  • MC2: You can progressively develop character stats or abilities (➙ e.g. through an in game value (usually exp. points) gained by quests, exploration, conversation, combat, …) Yes
  • MC3: You can equip items to enhance character stats or abilities Yes
  • MC4: Stat checks are required (➙ you need to develop your character in order to progress and finish the game) Yes
2. Exploration
Includes how you can move through the game world, as well as everything you can find, see, manipulate or interact with, like locations, items and other objects.
  • ME1: You can find new locations Yes
  • ME2: You can find and collect items (➙ There is an inventory. There must be more item types than quest items, weapons, ammunition or consumable stat boosters) Yes
  • ME3: You can find information sources (➙ e.g. NPCs, entities, objects that provide info) Yes
3. Story
Concerns all narrative elements like setting, lore, plot, characters, dialogue, quests, descriptions, storyline(s) and similar, including how you can interact with them.
  • MS1: You can get information from information sources (➙ e.g. hints, goals, quests, skills, spells, training, …) Yes
  • MS2: You can follow quests (➙ there is at least one main quest) Yes
  • MS3: You can progress through connected events while playing your character's role. Yes

ii. Should Have

Each core category and the auxiliary category Combat also have related Should Have conditions; the reviewer should make a comment if a sub list item is not fulfilled. Should one or more (SH) not be fulfilled the game is most likely a special CRPG (see Tags) or a CRPG light.

If all (SH) are fulfilled too there's no further discussion necessary — the game is a true CRPG.

1. Character Development
Describes ways to create, change or enhance your characters in order to increase their effectiveness in the game.
  • SC1: You can create your characters. Yes — You can recruite a lot of pre-defined characters, too.
  • SC2: Pre-planning is required for character development No — PoE has a "every char works" policy build in, so you need not much pre-planning
  • SC3: Tactical use of abilities is required (➙ primary means of problem solving, gameworld interaction and overcoming challenges. The player's physical coordination skills are secondary.) Yes
2. Exploration
Includes how you can move through the game world, as well as everything you can find, see, manipulate or interact with, like locations, items and other objects.
  • SE1: You can find NPCs (➙ non-player characters who you can interact with.) Yes
  • SE2: You can choose a path (➙ there is at least some branching.) Yes
  • SE3: You can interact with the game world (➙ e.g. you can pull levers, push buttons, open chests, hack computers, … appropriate to the game's setting) Yes
  • SE4: The gameworld can affect your characters' conditions or circumstances such that you have to learn and adapt to overcome these challenges (➙ e.g. weather, traps, closed doors, poisoned areas, …) Yes — a few closed doors, hidden buttons and traps
  • SE5: Inaccessible areas can be reached due to character enhancements or by solving quests or puzzles (➙ e.g. unlock locked areas, overcome obstacles, repair bridges, dispel barriers, …) Yes
3. Story
Concerns all narrative elements like setting, lore, plot, characters, dialogue, quests, descriptions, storyline(s) and similar, including how you can interact with them.
  • SS1: You can interact with information sources (➙ e.g. NPC conversations, riddle statue questions, …) Yes
  • SS2: You can make choices in those interactions. Yes
  • SS3: Some of those choices have consequences. Yes — only a few
  • SS4: Thinking is required in order to progress (➙ e.g. irreversible choices, moral dilemma, riddles, …) No — The main story is pretty easy to follow
  • SS5: The story is influenced by your decisions and your characters' actions and stats or abilities. Yes
4. Combat (Meta)
Describes how combat (or more general: conflict resolving) corresponds to elements of Character Development, Exploration and Story.
  • SF1: Combat is influenced by character stats or abilities (➙ e.g. amount of damage, chance to hit, weapon access, …) Yes
  • SF2: Combat involves random elements (➙ e.g. game internal dice rolls.) Yes
  • SF3: Combat provides some challenge (➙ e.g. requires preparation, use of tactics or environment.) Yes — at least in the first chapter, later the combat becomes too easy

Pillars of Eternity belongs to a CRPG Subgenre. See tags below.


II. CRPG Elements

Optional elements are listed in the Nice to Have (NtH) list. With it you get precise information which optional CRPG elements are implemented in the game. A general game info questionnaire is added too, to do some rating.

1. Character Development

Choice
  1. You can name your characters. Yes
  2. You can choose a gender. Yes
  3. You can choose looks or voice. Yes
  4. You can choose or create through play your own class, profession or race. Yes
  5. You can choose traits, alignment or disposition. Yes
  6. You can choose abilities. Yes
  7. You can choose spells. Yes
  8. You can modify primary stats. Yes
  9. Lots of different equipment is available. Yes
  10. Lots of different spells or abilities are available. Yes
  11. Abilities can unlock or block others or branch. No
  12. Character classes or development paths can be changed during the game. No
  13. You can have pets as party members. Yes
Interdependence
  1. (Story) Character stats can change NPC disposition towards the PC. Yes
  2. (Story) Stats, abilities or spells can affect available dialogue options. Yes
  3. (Story) Different classes and alignments offer noticeably different experiences (➙ high replayability.) No
  4. (Story) Unique items are in the game or can be made. Yes
  5. (Exploration) Stats, abilities or spells can affect available paths through the game world. No
  6. (Exploration) Stats, abilities or spells can affect the amount of things you can see, find or know in the world. Yes
Interactivity
  1. You can create combos with spells or abilities. No
  2. Your character's stats can be modified by using spells or abilities. Yes
  3. Your character's afflictions can be cured by using spells or abilities. Yes
  4. You can rest or sleep. Yes
  5. Stats can limit in some way what you can equip or carry. No
  6. You can control party members or pets like your main character. Yes
Immersion
  1. You need to specialize (➙ can't have everything.) Yes
  2. You can create or choose a background story for your character. Yes
  3. You can tweak your character lots of times over the whole game. Yes
  4. You can wear normal clothes, not only armor. Yes
  5. Factions provide prizes for your deeds (➙ e.g. houses, medals, ranks, …) Yes
  6. Magic is in the game in some form. Yes
  7. Your characters can be afflicted with negative status effects (➙ e.g. diseases, fatigue, etc.) Yes
  8. Your characters can eat or drink. Yes
  9. You understand how your character and quest fit within the overall game world. Yes

2. Exploration

Choice
  1. You can follow different paths to reach a goal. Yes — sometimes
  2. You can reasonably go where you want. Yes
  3. You can return to previously visited locations. Yes
  4. There are few artificial borders, rare level loading. No — many load screens
  5. There are interesting and helpful things to buy with your money (➙ e.g. trade for better equipment.) Yes
Interdependence
  1. (Character) Char development choices can affect available paths through the game world. No
  2. (Character) Char development choices can affect the amount of things you can see, find or know in the world. Yes
  3. (Story) You can find and recruit new party members or tame pets. Yes
  4. (Story) Exploring off the beaten path yields rewards, e.g. optional quests, secrets or interesting locations. Yes
  5. (Story) You can visit and make use of social locations (➙ e.g. taverns, inns, marketplaces.) Yes
Interactivity
  1. You can gain money. Yes
  2. You can interact with items. No
  3. You can break or destroy items. No
  4. You can repair items. No
  5. You can move items. No
  6. You can combine or disaggregate items. No
  7. You can gather pieces of flora or fauna for later use. Yes
  8. You can craft or customize equipment, spells or items (➙ e.g. alchemy.) Yes
  9. Inventory size is limited. No
Immersion
  1. There is a place you can call home. Yes
  2. You can explore lots of unique, beautiful and interesting locations. Yes
  3. Locations can evolve or change (➙ e.g. town / destroyed town.) Yes — only very few
  4. There are non-hostile creatures (➙ e.g. wildlife.) Yes
  5. Types of creatures make sense in the area they are encountered in. Yes
  6. Creatures are wandering persistently (➙ generally they don't randomly pop up) Yes
  7. At least some encounters are random (➙ you don't always know what's coming.) No
  8. Looting makes sense (➙ no shield on a dead wolf.) Yes
  9. Items are thoroughly and interestingly described. Yes
  10. Time is measured (➙ e.g. there is a day/night cycle.) Yes
  11. Time affects the game world (➙ e.g. some things are only available at night.) No
  12. The economy is balanced (➙ collecting money never becomes pointless.) Yes
  13. There are realistic gameplay sound effects (➙ e.g. combat sounds) Yes
  14. There are interesting and immersive background sound effects. Yes

3. Story

Choice
  1. You can reasonably do what you want when you want to do it (➙ quest order doesn't matter much.) Yes
  2. Some quests depend on each other. Yes
  3. Some quests rule others out. Yes
  4. Quests can be solved in more than one way. Yes
  5. You can join factions, though not all at the same time. Yes
  6. You can make moral choices (or romance choices.) Yes
Interdependence
  1. (Character) Character stats can change NPC disposition towards the PC. Yes
  2. (Character) Char development choices can affect available dialogue options. Yes
  3. (Character) Different classes and alignments offer noticeably different experiences (➙ high replayability.) No
  4. (Character) Unique items are in the game or can be made. Yes
  5. (Exploration) You can find and recruit new party members or tame pets. Yes
  6. (Exploration) Exploring off the beaten path yields rewards, e.g. optional quests, secrets or interesting locations. Yes
  7. (Exploration) You can visit and make use of social locations (➙ e.g. taverns, inns, marketplaces.) Yes
Interactivity
  1. Dialogue is fleshed out (➙ there are multiple options in one conversation.) Yes
  2. There is more than one game ending. Yes
  3. You can have conversations with party members or take care of pets. Yes
  4. There are many side quests. Yes
  5. State of the game changes in accordance with the player's actions. Yes
  6. You can solve or create conflicts between factions. Yes
Immersion
  1. Lore is provided (➙ context, faction rules, laws, history, …) Yes
  2. There are different factions (➙ races, groups, guilds.) Yes
  3. NPCs or party members are well developed (➙ expansive background stories, etc.) Yes
  4. NPCs or party members interact with each other. Yes
  5. NPCs have schedules. No
  6. There are surprises and twists. Yes
  7. The storyline is character-driven (➙ character development within the narrative.) Yes
  8. There is a proper ending or sense of closure. Yes
  9. There are memorable antagonists. Yes
  10. Your main character is defined. Yes
  11. The game features fitting music (➙ atmosphere is enhanced.) Yes

4. Combat (Meta)

Units
  1. Combat can be avoided due to stats (➙ e.g. enemies flee) No
  2. You can control at least six characters. Yes
  3. Your characters are specialized (➙ different battlefield roles.) Yes
  4. Enemies are specialized (➙ require different tactics.) Yes
  5. Resource management is necessary. Yes
  6. Units have multiple attack options. Yes
  7. Delayed attacks are possible (➙ e.g. counterattacks, attacks of opportunity, etc.) Yes
  8. Movement-focused special abilities are available. Yes
  9. Units have multiple resistance options (➙ e.g. armor, elemental resistance, etc.) Yes
Environment
  1. Combat can be avoided through sneaking or gameworld manipulation. No
  2. You can get a good sense of space (➙ e.g. there is a grid.) No
  3. Combat can start at variable distances. No
  4. Directional facing plays a role (➙ e.g. more damage from behind, flanking.) Yes
  5. Terrain is variable (➙ e.g. natural choke points, cover, combat bonuses.) No
  6. Terrain can be manipulated (➙ e.g. you can create barriers.) No
  7. There are elevation effects (➙ e.g. combat bonuses from higher grounds.) No
  8. There can be zones or items on the battlefield that reward units who get there in time. No
  9. There can be Zones of Danger on the battlefield (➙ e.g. environmental damage.) No
Scenarios
  1. Combat can be avoided through dialogue. No — in general no, with a few exceptions
  2. Combat can have different win scenarios (➙ e.g. keep NPC alive, defend town.) No
  3. Combat can have side objectives aside from "win/loss". No
  4. Characters don't die immediately but can be revived during combat. Yes
  5. Decisions on the battlefield have character development consequences. No
  6. There are memorable bosses. Yes

Roleplay Focus: Character : Exploration : Story = 0.83 : 0.76 : 0.92
Gameplay Focus: Choice : Interactivity : Immersion = 0.87 : 0.76 : 0.90
Combat Focus: Units : Environment : Scenarios = 0.90 : 0.20 : 0.43


III. Fun Features
1. Character Development
Describes ways to create, change or enhance your characters in order to increase their effectiveness in the game.
  • FC1: Are there useless skills? Yes
  • FC2: How would you rate character progression? Balanced
  • FC3: Is there auto-leveling of some sort? No
  • FC4: Is the character advancement process satisfying and rewarding? No
  • FC5: Is the magic system (if included) well-balanced? Yes
2. Exploration
Includes how you can move through the game world, as well as everything you can find, see, manipulate or interact with, like locations, items and other objects.
  • FE1: Is Auto-Mapping available? Yes
  • FE2: Is Fast Travelling available? Yes
  • FE3: Are there quest markers? No
  • FE4: Is there a quest compass? No
  • FE5: How much realism is there? Little
  • FE6: How much looting is in the game? Much
3. Story
Concerns all narrative elements like setting, lore, plot, characters, dialogue, quests, descriptions, storyline(s) and similar, including how you can interact with them.
  • FS1: Does the story follow cliched paths? Yes
  • FS2: How linear is the game? Non-linear
  • FS3: How would you rate the suspense? Ok
  • FS4: Are there pre-selected options? (➙ Choice is reduced.) Yes
4. Combat (Meta)
Describes how combat (or more general: conflict resolving) corresponds to elements of Character Development, Exploration and Story.
  • FF1: How much fighting is in the game? Much
  • FF2: Grinding: Is filler combat necessary to develop your character? No
5. Interface
  • FX1: How often is gameplay interrupted with loading? Often
  • FX2: How would you rate the game's interface? Intuitive
  • FX3: Is it easy to understand and evaluate how items compare to each other? (➙ e.g. which weapon does the most damage?) Yes
6. Difficulty
  • FD1: How difficult is the game? (➙ normal = challenging without being exasperating) Normal
  • FD2: Can difficulty be adjusted? Yes
  • FD3: How balanced is trading? Good
  • FD4: How much reloading is necessary to beat the game? Little
  • FD5: How good is the AI? Medium
  • FD6: How much handholding is there? Little
7. Gameplay Features
  • FG1: Are there Easter Eggs? Yes
  • FG2: Are there minigames? No
  • FG3: How is the overall pacing? (➙ good: game is not over too quickly, neither does it drag) Not so good
 

DarkUnderlord

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That's not detailed information, that's just a checklist of features.

The point of a review is to tell you whether those features are any good or not, not just whether they exist or don't.

EG:

FC1: Are there useless skills? Yes

Detailed information would be: What are they? Why are they useless? Which ones are useful by comparison? How does that impact the game?

Not just: Yes.
 

HiddenX

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The CRPG Analyzer is just a checklist for CRPG elements for a given game.
It gives a good overview what elements have been implemented and which not.
The simple yes/no form is very easy to use.

It can be the basis of a review, but it is NOT a review.
I don't know if Corwin used it for his review - I think not.
I posted the link just for additional info about PoE (we Germans like checklists...).

-> background
 
Last edited:

Western

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Zed you are really not used to the language code at the Watch.

RPGWatch: there are definitely a number of design decisions I did not care for.

in Codex language:

RPGCodex: this amateur Josh should go back to school and play some Pool of Radiance to learn how a proper party based RPG should be designed.
oh so they hate the game but give it 4 out of 5 stars. hokay-dokay.

They must be using the IGN scale, any lower than 8 out of 10 and you'd wipe your arse with it.
 

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