Editorial Age of Decadence May Update

[Infinitron]

Tags: Age of Decadence; Iron Tower Studios; Vault Dweller

The Age of Decadence Early Access release received an update today adding two more locations to the game, which along with last month's Ganezzar release brings it to 21 out of 22 planned locations complete. With an end to development now truly in sight, Vault Dweller appears to have entered a contemplative mood, which has motivated him to finally release a new development update post on the Iron Tower forums (my badgering may also have helped). It's a chronicle of the game's 11 year long development, which attempts to explain why it took so long. Here's the beginning:

Every now and then, someone asks, “What’s taking them so long? Why is the game still in development?” The questions are understandable. You hear that a game has been in development for more than a decade and you think that a decade is a very long time. Only the infamously mismanaged projects like Duke Nukem Forever take that long and nothing good ever comes out of it.

Since we’ve just released 2 new locations – 21 out of 22 locations are now available – and the light at the end of the tunnel is shining impossibly bright, now would be a good time to tell you a tale.

***

It starts deceptively simple.

You’ve been imagining your own RPG for a while. One day you decide to take it a step further and start toying with a character system in Excel. Then you start jotting down notes on the setting; maybe you even write a few quests as a mental exercise. Why, you’re half way there already! All you need is an engine to scotch-tape it together and you’re done!

Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Months later you have an engine, one or two likeminded, overly enthusiastic and always inexperienced (if they were experienced, they wouldn’t be there) people, the very first, hastily created screen to reinforce the notion that you’re in the business of making RPGs and the business is a-booming.

You make plans. Big plans. I want my dream RPG to have a crafting system! And an alchemy system! And a reputation system! And three factions with mutually exclusive questlines! No, make it four! Four? You have to think BIG! Make it seven!

Shortly afterwards, the honeymoon phase of imagining an RPG ends and the hard work of making one begins. That’s where most new undertakings wither and die. That’s where you discover how insanely complex RPGs are and that it would take a couple of years just to put together a functioning combat system.

You’re stubborn or stupid (or both) and you push forward. After all, when the combat system is done, you’ll almost be there. Not really. Well, if you want to make a combat game and you don’t mind cutting a few corners, maybe. Make some maps, sprinkle them with enemies, and your masterpiece is complete!

But what if you want to make a game with a complex story and branching questlines? What if you want to a make a game where Choices & Consequences aren’t an afterthought but the main feature? Then you’d best get ready for the long haul because the combat system is only the first step on a very long road.
​

Read the whole thing there, it's quite a tale. It would be interesting to juxtapose this with the developments of other indie RPGs.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

With an end to development now truly in sight...

Bold statement.

 

[Infinitron]

sea reply:

Truer words never spoken and well worth reading for any up-and-coming developer.

To share a bit of my experience:

It's very easy to take for granted that nothing in your game exists until you make it - not just graphics and art, or systems, but the code and data structures to even support the existence of all those things in the first place. Even with lots of middleware, it's a huge effort. God help you if you try to write your own engine from scratch.

I'm a producer/designer, and even writing design docs, editing Excel sheets, or filling in fields in an editor, take months and months of tweaking and back-and-forth. It is a battle of constant tweaking, adjustment, polishing and refinement. Everything you do has consequences for the game that no team can ever reasonably predict all of, which leads to even more work. That work exists both for you as well as for engineers, scripters and artists, and you have only finite time and budget. Questions like "can we reuse art here?", "do we have tech for this?", or "is bigger problem X solved yet?" are usually much more relevant than your perfect ideal design.

A very rough guide to game project management: make an estimate on the amount of time it will take you to make any feature or content. Double it immediately. Then double it again for all the debugging, design reviews and QA. Then double it again for all the times you'll need to change it when the game's design changes, or technology changes. Consider it wasted time when you inevitably cut a bunch of it because you can't afford to keep it. Even taking all this into account, you will still have more to do than you ever expected.

The silver lining is that it's very easy to under-estimate how big a game is or how many features are "enough" for it to feel complete. If you target a 40 hour length, it'll probably end up being 80 hours if you cut nothing. Players much prefer consistently fun and engaging games, and they'd rather have 1 awesome feature than 5 features that are mediocre. If someone would never guess a feature or content was removed from the game, then it probably deserves to be removed - it almost always makes for a better experience.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

It seems Sea became bashful and just deleted that post, apart from the first line. Perhaps he thought people would troll him with this paragraph given that he works for Inxile?

"The silver lining is that it's very easy to under-estimate how big a game is or how many features are "enough" for it to feel complete. If you target a 40 hour length, it'll probably end up being 80 hours if you cut nothing. Players much prefer consistently fun and engaging games, and they'd rather have 1 awesome feature than 5 features that are mediocre. If someone would never guess a feature or content was removed from the game, then it probably deserves to be removed - it almost always makes for a better experience."

 

[Kem0sabe]

Hey look its Sea the game producer/designer speaking words of wisdom, from years of experience, to every young boy who dreams of working in game development.

If my interns start having such delusions of grander i make sure to bitchslap them into reality.

Anyways, everything is finally coming together at last, just hope iron tower is not too burned out with the long development to continue doing quality work, they need a rest.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hard to be burned out when you're doing what you truly love and always wanted to do. Can't wait to start working on the colony ship RPG.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Hard to be burned out when you're doing what you truly love and always wanted to do. Can't wait to start working on the colony ship RPG.

So the combat focused dungeon crawler is scraped for now? I thought you guys were working on that first before the scifi game.

 

[Goral]

Thank you Vince, Nick and Oscar for persevering and creating such masterpiece. I wish you over million copies sold in one year :]. I first learned about this game about a year after I registered on the Codex but didn't think much about it then. Only after Teron demo had been released the game got my attention. My first impression was bad - ugly looking (or so I thought at the time, I immediately forgot about aesthetics and presentation, the game was so absorbing that I forgot I have to eat or work ;P) game that only has one town. Oh, boy was I wrong. This game has soul that most contemporary games lack. The setting is one of the best if not the best ones ever created, the characters feel alive and are brutally realistic and the quests are exquisite.

There are no fillers here, no copy-pasting and no bloat. You can't grind here either because every fight is meaningful and there are no trash mobs. In fact, quite often it's more advantageous to skip a fight and skill points because the price is too big to pay, e.g. by making enemies of a powerful faction your options are limited and in the end you get less skill points. Now that's truly unique way of making cRPGs. Usually you're a leader of a fearless party that fears nothing - and I mean nothing, be it a dragon or Jewish condominium. Who in his right mind would flee from a fight right? You're after all destined to become a demi-god that can destroy a whole town if you wish so even though a while earlier you had problems with rats or goblins. Well, not in in Age of Decadence.

Oh, and I said at the beginning that this game looks ugly - it's anything but. Locations are varied and some of them look amazing while the rest is decent at least. In fact I've never had immersion breaking, contrary to Fallout new Vegas for example (characters there look terrible and their mimics can give a headache, not to mention bugs and copy-pasted locations).

 

[likaq]

We started taking pre-orders when we released the second playable demo. We hoped to sell a few thousand copies but sold only 242 copies in the first month, less than half in the second month, 25-40 copies a month after. Thus we had no choice but to continue working part-time

This is the most sad part of the post.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hard to be burned out when you're doing what you truly love and always wanted to do. Can't wait to start working on the colony ship RPG.

So the combat focused dungeon crawler is scraped for now? I thought you guys were working on that first before the scifi game.

Nope, not scrapped, but it will be an $8 combat-heavy game with minimum dialogues set in the AoD world; the main feature - party-based combat. We already did the overall design and I can write the dialogues in a month or so (i.e. not much for me to do as a writer/designer). Overall, we're aiming for an 8-10 months development cycle.

So, while Nick, Ivan, and Oscar are working on the crawler, Mazin and I will work on the colony ship RPG (concept art, setting, the first areas).

 

[Kem0sabe]

Hard to be burned out when you're doing what you truly love and always wanted to do. Can't wait to start working on the colony ship RPG.

So the combat focused dungeon crawler is scraped for now? I thought you guys were working on that first before the scifi game.

Nope, not scrapped, but it will be an $8 combat-heavy game with minimum dialogues set in the AoD world; the main feature - party-based combat. We already did the overall design and I can write the dialogues in a month or so (i.e. not much for me to do as a writer/designer). Overall, we're aiming for an 8-10 months development cycle.

So, while Nick, Ivan, and Oscar are working on the crawler, Mazin and I will work on the colony ship RPG (concept art, setting, the first areas).

I assume the engine will be the same, but are you planning at this early stage to use more of an open level design for the colony ship RPG or more in line with the vignette style design we have seen in AoD and Dead State?

Sorry to derail thread from AoD discussion, but Scifi rpg's are an itch thats rarely been scratched, cant help myself.

 

[Gakkone]

Overall, we're aiming for an 8-10 months development cycle.

Shouldn't take more than a few years then.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I assume the engine will be the same, but are you planning at this early stage to use more of an open level design for the colony ship RPG or more in line with the vignette style design we have seen in AoD and Dead State?

Sorry to derail thread from AoD discussion, but Scifi rpg's are an itch thats rarely been scratched, cant help myself.

We're aiming to:

- switch to Unreal 4 (Nick and Ivan already explored this option, so far it looks good)
- create a different experience with the same core ('hardcore', TB, C&C). So combat would be TB but focused on ranged rather than melee (earth-made laser guns - rare but powerful, ammo even more rare, so save for special occasions - vs crude ship-manufactured firearms), level up to distribute skill points and unlock new feats, focus on the individual and more dynamic C&C, focus on exploring rather than working your way up in a faction; you'll be one of the 'freemen' who aren't born into a caste-like faction, possibly that TB stealth idea.
- go with a more traditional open level design

It doesn't mean that we're done with the "AoD design" but we don't want to make the same game in a different setting over and over again. If we survive and stay in business, we'd like to make another AoD game and explore the Qantari culture. This game would have the exact same design as AoD.

 

[likaq]

We're aiming to:

- switch to Unreal 4 (Nick and Ivan already explored this option, so far it looks good)
- create a different experience with the same core ('hardcore', TB, C&C). So combat would be TB but focused on ranged rather than melee (earth-made laser guns - rare but powerful, ammo even more rare, so save for special occasions - vs crude ship-manufactured firearms), level up to distribute skill points and unlock new feats, focus on the individual and more dynamic C&C, focus on exploring rather than working your way up in a faction; you'll be one of the 'freemen' who aren't born into a caste-like faction, possibly that TB stealth idea.
- go with a more traditional open level design

It doesn't mean that we're done with the "AoD design" but we don't want to make the same game in a different setting over and over again. If we survive and stay in business, we'd like to make another AoD game and explore the Qantari culture. This game would have the exact same design as AoD.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I assume the engine will be the same, but are you planning at this early stage to use more of an open level design for the colony ship RPG or more in line with the vignette style design we have seen in AoD and Dead State?

Sorry to derail thread from AoD discussion, but Scifi rpg's are an itch thats rarely been scratched, cant help myself.

We're aiming to:

- switch to Unreal 4 (Nick and Ivan already explored this option, so far it looks good)
- create a different experience with the same core ('hardcore', TB, C&C). So combat would be TB but focused on ranged rather than melee (earth-made laser guns - rare but powerful, ammo even more rare, so save for special occasions - vs crude ship-manufactured firearms), level up to distribute skill points and unlock new feats, focus on the individual and more dynamic C&C, focus on exploring rather than working your way up in a faction; you'll be one of the 'freemen' who aren't born into a caste-like faction, possibly that TB stealth idea.
- go with a more traditional open level design

It doesn't mean that we're done with the "AoD design" but we don't want to make the same game in a different setting over and over again. If we survive and stay in business, we'd like to make another AoD game and explore the Qantari culture. This game would have the exact same design as AoD.

 

[Blackmill]

I assume the engine will be the same, but are you planning at this early stage to use more of an open level design for the colony ship RPG or more in line with the vignette style design we have seen in AoD and Dead State?

Sorry to derail thread from AoD discussion, but Scifi rpg's are an itch thats rarely been scratched, cant help myself.

We're aiming to:

- switch to Unreal 4 (Nick and Ivan already explored this option, so far it looks good)
- create a different experience with the same core ('hardcore', TB, C&C). So combat would be TB but focused on ranged rather than melee (earth-made laser guns - rare but powerful, ammo even more rare, so save for special occasions - vs crude ship-manufactured firearms), level up to distribute skill points and unlock new feats, focus on the individual and more dynamic C&C, focus on exploring rather than working your way up in a faction; you'll be one of the 'freemen' who aren't born into a caste-like faction, possibly that TB stealth idea.
- go with a more traditional open level design

It doesn't mean that we're done with the "AoD design" but we don't want to make the same game in a different setting over and over again. If we survive and stay in business, we'd like to make another AoD game and explore the Qantari culture. This game would have the exact same design as AoD.

On the IT forums you mentioned you wanted to do something "different and tactical" with dialogue in your next RPG. Is that still part of the plan?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yes, that too. Forgot to mention it.

 

[AbounI]

I assume the engine will be the same, but are you planning at this early stage to use more of an open level design for the colony ship RPG or more in line with the vignette style design we have seen in AoD and Dead State?

Sorry to derail thread from AoD discussion, but Scifi rpg's are an itch thats rarely been scratched, cant help myself.

We're aiming to:

- switch to Unreal 4 (Nick and Ivan already explored this option, so far it looks good)
- create a different experience with the same core ('hardcore', TB, C&C). So combat would be TB but focused on ranged rather than melee (earth-made laser guns - rare but powerful, ammo even more rare, so save for special occasions - vs crude ship-manufactured firearms), level up to distribute skill points and unlock new feats, focus on the individual and more dynamic C&C, focus on exploring rather than working your way up in a faction; you'll be one of the 'freemen' who aren't born into a caste-like faction, possibly that TB stealth idea.
- go with a more traditional open level design

It doesn't mean that we're done with the "AoD design" but we don't want to make the same game in a different setting over and over again. If we survive and stay in business, we'd like to make another AoD game and explore the Qantari culture. This game would have the exact same design as AoD.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

It doesn't mean that we're done with the "AoD design" but we don't want to make the same game in a different setting over and over again.

*tsk tsk* Not learning from Bethesda's example, I see.

But seriously, good on you bros for wanting to continue to push the limits and take full advantage of your status as an indie developer. And good choice with the unreal engine as I think it's easier to make a mobile/tablet version after you're done with the PC version.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why else be an indie (i.e. free) developer if not to experiment and try new things?

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

Vault Dweller -- like Goral, I first found out about the Codex while looking for upcoming indie games for a series of articles in a small gaming magazine, back in June 2006 (I still have the e-mail I sent to the ITS archived). I covered quite a number of games, some of them RPGs, some not, some from newcomers, some from fairly established developers. A lot of them looked quite a bit impressive, at least visually (Project Offset for one). The thing is, and admittedly I'mnot 100% sure as I don't have all of the printed magazines any more, while many of them spent very long time in development and had something to show for it (like The Broken Hourglass), not a single one of those games was eventually finished and released, for various reasons (the then unnamed project that later turned out to be Subversion notably almost sunk Introversion who were at the time the poster child of indie success). Most of those other titles didn't look half as complex as AoD and it would have probably been my last pick for the one to actually make it. Looking at the game in my Steam library and latest updates all I can say is - hats off to you guys. When I feel like giving up on something I've worked on for a long time these days, I literally think of "how must VD have felt when halfway through he realized AoD would take years to complete?*".

The game is pretty cool, btw, and I really hope it sells, too.

*Which based on the latest update is not exactly what happened, but you get my point.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Why else be an indie (i.e. free) developer if not to experiment and try new things?

Exactly. Might want to ask Jeff Vogel that question sometime though...

 

[AbounI]

Vault Dweller
Have you change your mind for a kickstarter fundraising campaign for the Generation Ship RPG?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller
Have you change your mind for a kickstarter fundraising for the Generation Ship RPG?

To be honest, if both AoD and the dungeon crawler fail to sell enough to keep us in business, I can't imagine going to KS and saying 'Hi, our games don't really sell but we want to keep making them...". If they sell, we won't need KS.

 

[Athelas]

Vault Dweller
Have you change your mind for a kickstarter fundraising for the Generation Ship RPG?

To be honest, if both AoD and the dungeon crawler fail to sell enough to keep us in business, I can't imagine going to KS and saying 'Hi, our games don't really sell but we want to keep making them...". If they sell, we won't need KS.

Why do you hate free money?