A fun fact about Battlefleet Gothic.

[Awor Szurkrarz]

This is a cover painting of BFG, first edition.

Now, let's take the scale of the game:
The base of a miniature represents at most a few thousands of km of space around the vessel.
According to the manual, the ship itself would be a central molecule of the stem of the base. (BFG Rulebook, page 6)

Shooting happens from tens of thousands of kilometres and even from these distances, the fire arrives almost immediately.
Weapons used are lasers, fusion beams and plasma launchers. (BFG Rulebook, page 18)

The cruiser base has radius of 1,5cm but let's assume that the "at most" means the size of the battleship base. The battleship base has radius of 3cm which would make the scale of the game 1:1000000000.

Looking at Google Earth and the lenght of imperial battleship (around 4,5km), the broken ship in the background is seen from about 45km.

Which means that the broken ship is about 0,045cm from the central molecule of the stem of the base D: .
The situation on the picture isn't even possible to represent in game and there are no rules for such close fighting.

But for some reason it's usually the pictures that are used as a source of information how space combat works for Wh40k novels, not the actual info in the manual.

 

[Xathrodox86]

WH40K is not know for it's logic and consistencies, even if it is fucking sweet. I'm not sure about BFG, but there were many publications since its time that dealt with ship combat, so some of that info you've found can be invalid.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

WH40K is not know for it's logic and consistencies, even if it is fucking sweet.

It's a question of ignorant writers. Aaron Dembski-Bowden is probably the worst of the worst when it comes to space combat.
Also, the art is kinda lazy. IMO they should try to find a new style to represent space combat. For example one that would show two sections presenting the firing ships and effects of fire on them and between them a section presenting the fire in scale.

I'm not sure about BFG, but there were many publications since its time that dealt with ship combat, so some of that info you've found can be invalid.

Ugh, I think I'm going to be sick. Checked out Rogue Trader. To my relief, it's still valid. And they gave a precise scale. BFG is 1:2000000000 as I thought before writing this, not 1:1000000000. One turn is 30 minutes.

 

[Caim]

Also, the art is kinda lazy. IMO they should try to find a new style to represent space combat.

Send in the Space Marines and have them PUNCH EVERYTHING:

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Send in the Space Marines and have them PUNCH EVERYTHING:

It was probably the only Wh40k novel that made use of a ship as a RKV.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Guilliman punching Word Bearers in space was all kinds of cool. After "Know now fear" I've begun to hate people who hate Ultras, "because Matt Ward wrote about them".

And as much as I love ADB, "Betrayer" has shit for ship to ship combat. Two vessels decimate an entire fleet? Really ADB, really?

 

[Caim]

Guilliman punching Word Bearers in space was all kinds of cool. After "Know now fear" I've begun to hate people who hate Ultras, "because Matt Ward wrote about them".

Guilliman's been getting some wonderful development the last two years or so. The whole Imperium Secundus thingis a rather interesting take on a man like him.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Guilliman's been getting some wonderful development the last two years or so. The whole Imperium Secundus thingis a rather interesting take on a man like him.

True and it explains some major parts of 40K like the Sanguinor or why the Tyranids ate the world of Hota first, when they began the invasion of Ultramar.

I like how Guilliman is the only Primarch who didn't go full retard.

 

[Caim]

I like how Guilliman is the only Primarch who didn't go full retard.

I wouldn't go that far though. Dude got his hands on a device that allowed ships to warp travel to any plantet it was pointed to in relative safety, and what did he do? Instead of going off to save his dad and head to Terra he went back home and began to build his own Imperium, and only through the collective paddling by Sanguinius and Lion El'Jonson did he get off of his ass. But then again, he also dropped this line:

"Lorgar of Colchis. You may consider the following. One: I entirely withdraw my previous offer of solemn ceasefire. It is cancelled, and will not be made again, to you or to any other of your motherless bastards. Two: you are no longer any brother of mine. I will find you, I will kill you, and I will hurl your toxic corpse into hell’s mouth."

Not often do the people of 40k (or 30k in this example?) go full Liam Neeson.

 

[Xathrodox86]

I wouldn't go that far though. Dude got his hands on a device that allowed ships to warp travel to any plantet it was pointed to in relative safety, and what did he do? Instead of going off to save his dad and head to Terra he went back home and began to build his own Imperium, and only through the collective paddling by Sanguinius and Lion El'Jonson did he get off of his ass. But then again, he also dropped this line:

"Lorgar of Colchis. You may consider the following. One: I entirely withdraw my previous offer of solemn ceasefire. It is cancelled, and will not be made again, to you or to any other of your motherless bastards. Two: you are no longer any brother of mine. I will find you, I will kill you, and I will hurl your toxic corpse into hell’s mouth."

Not often do the people of 40k (or 30k in this example?) go full Liam Neeson.

Well, Guilliman does posses a particular set of skills.

Ok, you're right. I'm biased. Khan is awesome, so is Dorn and Sangy. I don't like any of the traitors since they've always felt like a bunch of whiny bitches to me, who cracked under pressure (Horus), couldn't stand a few harsh words (Lorgar) or went full autism (Perturabo).

As for the device on Hota. After Calth and Lorgar's revelation Guilliman concluded that Terra could already be lost, since there was no way to communicate with the throne world. So instead of sending his battered men on a loony chase, he decided to fortify his own Empire. For Guilliman the ideals of the Imperium were more important than the Imperium itself. He didn't even acknowledged the Emperor as his father. It was Connor who taught him everything.

 

[Caim]

Oh, I'm not arguing with the awesomeness of Khan and Sanguinius. Dorn's an ass though. Having Perturabo tell him "You can't break into my impregnatable fortress" made him go "watch me" and sacrifice a good deal of his Legion doing so, only to end up in a keep that was empty aside from his brother's mockery (and a pict capture of his ass).

It's the same reason I don't like Cato Sicarius.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Would trade Magnus for Dorn anytime I guess it was true that he was too proud to fall but you forgot about Rus who was not barbarian but very King like and about the Lion was big autistic moron too... and about poor Fulgrim who was really fracked up by his very codexian habit of picking the tainted loot... But yes outside those two all fallen primarchs were assholes pretty much from the start.

 

[Caim]

Fulgrim's story is pretty much Othello except Othello is replaced by a Lucius Malfoy lookalike, Desdemona by a cyborg Scotsman who hates weakness and Iago by a talking daemon-possessed sword.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Would trade Magnus for Dorn anytime I guess it was true that he was too proud to fall but you forgot about Rus who was not barbarian but very King like and about the Lion was big autistic moron too... and about poor Fulgrim who was really fracked up by his very codexian habit of picking the tainted loot... But yes outside those two all fallen primarchs were assholes pretty much from the start.

Autist O'Johnson is a mixed bag. On one hand he's the cool King-Guy who's all nightly and shit. On the other he punches people's heads off because they tend to disagree with him/

Dorn is the most tragic. He never came to terms with being a Primarch and when the Heresy broke out he was devastated, knowing that people would never trust them (the Astartes) again. Also he was the last to die, knowing full well that the time of the Primarchs has come to an end. Altough I'm one of those people who tend to think that he's still on Terra, leading the Custodes.

Damn, Dorn was a bro.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

And as much as I love ADB, "Betrayer" has shit for ship to ship combat. Two vessels decimate an entire fleet? Really ADB, really?

ADB should have a boxer standing over him that would punch him every time he tries to write a space combat scene.

 

[A horse of course]

You are seriously autistic Awor Szurkrarz

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

You are seriously autistic Awor Szurkrarz

Why do you think so :D ?

 

[Xathrodox86]

ADB should have a boxer standing over him that would punch him every time he tries to write a space combat scene.

And hot wymynz getting aquainted with Space Marines.

 

[groke]

I wish BFG had taken off before they redesigned the Zerg Tyranids so I could field space-squids.

 

[SCO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

have fun autists

Space battles are a incredibly retardo concept, but then again, so is a engine with a appreciable fraction of C.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

have fun autists

Scary shit D: . What was the purpose of linking it?

Space battles are a incredibly retardo concept, but then again, so is a engine with a appreciable fraction of C.

What do you think about BFG in comparison to space battles in "sci-fi" novels in general?

 

[SCO]

I have no experience in BFG, but sci-fi novels tend to do a lot of handwaving so readers in general don't really understand what a enormous distance 1 light minute is. In series that try to bring 'gun porn' to space and still try to be 'realistic', they normally introduce 'autonomous auto targeting missile platforms' normally in ambush, because the idea that 2 moving vectors that try to evade eachother and a fraction of the speed of light actually hitting eachother at the same time they're predicting the future of the enemy is dumb as hell. Staying put is also idiotic because you can just accelerate lots of rocks and hit like 3000 nukes, 24/7. If the point defense system is good enough to vaporize that you're still getting a cloud of dust moving at near light speed, not good (they never mention this)

Space battles would be more like space ambushes, with a sufficiently advanced drive & enough refuel points, because the defender could (should) just fuck off whereever. If they're both moving they won't hit eachother, if the attacker is moving the defender is probably dead and if not he wants to move, if the attacker is not moving (in stealth) there's a chance of success depending on the distance and speed of projectile/beam. If you keep your distance you should be safe basically. 'Running down' slower ships is maybe possible but probably makes you too predictable to said missile platforms the defender might want to drop so it's probably pointless too. This is my sci-fi bullshit wisdom. FTL drives would change things ofc, good thing they're impossible.

Space battles fantasies only mean that humanity becomes extinct because some sociopathic moron will accelerate rock(s) at the planet(s). Instant WoPlanetD, just add speed. Fuck, it's already happening in small scale with those tungsten rods that America is transporting into orbit, those are just 'more acceptable' nukes without (much) radiation.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I have no experience in BFG, but sci-fi novels tend to do a lot of handwaving so readers in general don't really understand what a enormous distance 1 light minute is.

In BFG imperial cruisers move at speed of up to 80,000km per hour, that is 0.000,092,593c. They can move up to 2,2 x faster under all ahead full special orders.
To turn 45 degrees, it normally needs to move 20,000km.

So, it takes a ship about 3,78 hours to move 1 light second.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Space battles fantasies only mean that humanity becomes extinct because some sociopathic moron will accelerate rock(s) at the planet(s). Instant WoPlanetD, just add speed. Fuck, it's already happening in small scale with those tungsten rods that America is transporting into orbit, those are just 'more acceptable' nukes without (much) radiation.

That sounds like Orky tactics from 40K, shooting meteors on the planet.

That Tungsten thingie is scary as hell. Suddendly the threat of radiation is removed from the whole "weapons of mass destruction" concept and they become more viable with it.

 

[SCO]

Even a moon colony would be dangerous as fuck, which no doubt is why some countries want it so bad, because shooting from the moon to anywhere on earth can become very cheap and very deadly (and yes, this is a Heinlein plot). I have no doubt we'll see some kind of automated miner cannon thing someday. Moon escape velocity is 2.38 km/s, earth is 11.2 km/s.

in the late 2000s, the U.S. Navy tested a railgun that accelerates a 3.2 kg (7 pound) projectile to hypersonic velocities of approximately 2.4 kilometres per second (8,600 km/h), about Mach 7