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Achtung Panzer: Operation Star just got inclined

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,413
Thanks for that, Trash. I'll keep a lookout for that review of yours. Just one more thing: overtenemy mentioned a patch that made it possible to field more units, since apparently pre-patch battlefields felt somewhat empty. Do you have any opinion on this change, has it improved the game for you?
 

Father Walker

Potato Ranger
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,282
I'd do LP of this one, but I don't have time and will at the moment. So, I'll try to be brief.

Pros:
- Realistic presentation of squad-level combat, pretty much on par with CM. Models everything you would expect from such game, i.e. morale, fatigue, suppression and stuff.
- Campaigns, Tactical + Strategic layer. Basically AP has stuff which Combat Mission lacks. You actually need to think about your losses and ammo during the battles, because it might affect your situation later.
- Focused more on the big picture than micromanagement.
- Pretty customizable. You can change default battle size, its length and other stuff.
- Decent enemy AI. It's not perfect, but makes the game playable and enjoyable. I've little experience on how AI handles offensive, because I prefer to play the attacking side myself.

Cons:
- Interface is, well, strange. IMO the whole order system should be ditched. You select various options in the sidebar: method of movement (assault, move, etc.), whether the guys should move using roads, hide, etc. There is a selection of quick presets, but most are not perfect. As your last choice is applied to any move order you direct to a unit, you find yourself constantly fiddling with the settings.
- Pathfinding sucks in the forests and some sectors are very havily forested. Inability to separate mechanized squads from their halftracks makes it annoying to cross forests.
- AP maps are composed of invisible squares, so when you order a unit to move somewhere, it moves to a square somewhere near the place you've chosen. It is annoying when moving tanks and shit around the forest using roads - they will almost always stray from the road at the end of their travel so that they can sit at the square they have been ordered to move.
- Individual soldiers act strangely at times. Don't know whether it is a feature or a badly written AI. I've seen a lot instances when individual soldiers, often squad leaders, separated themselves from the squad and moved towards the enemy situated 50-200 m away. Results in their death 99,9% of times. Loosing a squad leader means that leadership of an unit goes doooown, so you need to watch out for any lemming behavior among your troops.
- Lack of ability to order single units to fire at specific targets or areas is frustrating at times. Then again, it adds to the feeling that there is an actual chain of command out there.
- Performance could be better (though it might have something to do with my laptop).
- No multiplayer is a shame.
- Developer's PR seems non-existent.

It might seem that the game is bad or mediocre at best, but it isn't. If you like the genre, then give it a try. If you like to micromanage everything, then go for CM Normandy instead. All in all, I'd say that AP is a solid Eastern European title. It's hardcore, has some hit-and-miss ideas, is a bit rough on the edges but still manages to deliver solid gameplay. Also, it seems pretty stable and I didn't find any glaring bugs.

Just one more thing: overtenemy mentioned a patch that made it possible to field more units, since apparently pre-patch battlefields felt somewhat empty. Do you have any opinion on this change, has it improved the game for you?

It improves the game a lot. New system isn't perfect but clearly, it's a step in the right direction.
 

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,413
Brofists all around. I'll give it a go this weekend and see how it goes. Man, I love the feeling of plunging into a complex game, there's nothing like it.:obviously:
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
Brofists all around. I'll give it a go this weekend and see how it goes. Man, I love the feeling of plunging into a complex game, there's nothing like it.:obviously:

Cool. Tell us how it went. Do start with the Taranovka February 13 campaign. It's pretty easy and serves as a good way to get acquinted with the game.
 

Syril

Liturgist
Queued
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
1,385
Bros, as I've said, AP has pretty decent 2D mode. You can control all tactical action from the map. You can even toggle to display individual soldiers or the whole units... It's as good as you can get in 2012

But it's no close combat pretty look.

I give AP a plus for the tactical part

but the combat is not as fun as close combat and this game is like 15 years old? and CC also has tank penetrations etc.

Having no direct attack button is probably the most retarded idea i have ever seen in a video game.
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
Yeah, I miss that as well. Nothing like screaming at your tank to stop machinegunning hapless infantry and instead turn on that panzer that's rolling up. Do disagree strongly about the combat part though. Just played a huge battle in which I attacked a fortified German village. Artillery barrages, burning halftracks, collapsed houses, tracer rounds flying everywhere and ending in gruelling, grinding close combat it's about the perfect wargame for me. The AI really is tenacious when it wants to keep a point in its possesion. Battles can be highly mobile events in which points quickly change side or turn into the kind of meatgrinders when the AI decides a point is too valuable to lose. I actually didn't manage to take the village in the end as my attack ran out of steam and worse, men. Awesome.

The turn based campaign map also needs some extra mentioning. There are plenty of campaigns and I've never seen them play out the same twice. My latest win was a very narrow victory by encircling four enemy platoons in the second to last turn and then wiping them out in the battle part. Awesome stuff and again the AI providing a decent challenge here as well only makes it better.
 

Burning Bridges

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
27,562
Location
Tampon Bay
In any event it's a fantastic engine. But there are some problems for me, like I said, the interface, the 3d camera and visibility. Ah yes, and I think everything should not look that bleak, textures and all.
 

Father Walker

Potato Ranger
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,282
Close Combat's appeal comes from meaty and visceral combat. Just watching little men run around, scream and die horriby is lots of fun. So, CC is like Cannon Fodder of tactical games. Sure, it was great to play back in the day, but many of the underlying mechanics are just weak in comparison to other games.

Just played a huge battle in which I attacked a fortified German village. Artillery barrages, burning halftracks, collapsed houses, tracer rounds flying everywhere and ending in gruelling, grinding close combat it's about the perfect wargame for me. The AI really is tenacious when it wants to keep a point in its possesion. Battles can be highly mobile events in which points quickly change side or turn into the kind of meatgrinders when the AI decides a point is too valuable to lose. I actually didn't manage to take the village in the end as my attack ran out of steam and worse, men. Awesome.

Oh yes. Just played company-sized night battle which reminded me that AI is pretty decent. It tends to miss its artillery barrages and group units in a erratic way, but still gives a good fight. It broke through my left flank (which was moving to counter-attack, lulz) and beaten the centre pretty badly. All ended with a cease-fire and a draw fortunately.

Having no direct attack button is probably the most retarded idea i have ever seen in a video game.

I bet that they'll get rid of it in some update or perhaps another in iteration of the game. Latest update give hopes, that they're actually trying to fix stuff that's not working.
 

Syril

Liturgist
Queued
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
1,385
Too bad all those screenshots are from 300000x zoom, because from playview the view is shit.

Most 2 important things that other strategy games usualy have are borked here,

- main view

- no attack button


I'm not saying the game is bad, because it's good, but those 2 things are really irritating and make me rage when i play it.
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
I usually zoom out to about halfway and tilt the camera so I can see the horizon to give orders in pauze mode and then zoom back in to see them performed. It's working splendid so far and I do enjoy the visuals greatly. The camera is shit in that it's too sluggish not in that it's unusuable. Make it quicker and possible to tilt up and down at any angle and I'd be happy with it.
 

overtenemy

Augur
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
293
I'd like to point out that you can specify what targets a unit should shoot. It's called set priority targets. But just because you set it doesn't mean they will engage said target right away. They have to be able to see it, and sometimes orders have issues being followed, especially by tired troops. But test it out sometime - it DOES work.
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
It tells the AI to prioritise that target. It usually does work but sometimes stuff like my earlier example of the AI panzer happily mowing down infantry while tanks are rolling up does happen. It feels more like you suggest something to the AI then order it. I don't mind but I can see why people rage at it.
 

Father Walker

Potato Ranger
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,282
I'd like to point out that you can specify what targets a unit should shoot. It's called set priority targets. But just because you set it doesn't mean they will engage said target right away. They have to be able to see it, and sometimes orders have issues being followed, especially by tired troops. But test it out sometime - it DOES work.

Sadly, you have to know about the target. The inability to recon enemy positions by fire is annoying, especially during night battles.
 

Syril

Liturgist
Queued
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
1,385
Goddamn on XP SP 3 everything was working fine and on Win 7 i get occasional CTD :x
 

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