Interview Actually, Some Developers Should Read Their Forums

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

The codex is like goatse, it offends you in so many ways yet you can't stop looking.

 

[Mastermind]

I merely used the same logic on you as you used on circ

No, you didn't.

I make a statement rebutting the idea that the codex membership is somehow more intelligent than the average gamer, with the skills debate as an example. The example was about how codexfags whine about skyrim having only 18 skills while pretty much ignoring the fact that Fallout 1 also had "only" 18 skills.

Illiterate fuck who can't comprehend a paragraph that would be considered light reading by an unborn child makes some retarded dumbfuck comment about liking certain games despite their flaws. Liking certain games despite their flaws had nothing to do with my criticism. I did not use the fact that they like Fallout despite its flaws as a reason for why they're retarded. His entire analogy shows little more than the fact that the fucker doesn't actually read posts, he just guesses as to what they mean since the letters don't make sense to his underdeveloped lower primate brain. Apparently that applies to you too since you're more than willing to jump on his retard trainhard cock (it is the codex after all ). Pity, I almost had some respect for you before this. Almost.

using the same sentence slightly altered, I thought it was obvious.

Bro I know you were trying to make a retarded parody of my post. I simply dealt with the meat of your post. Parodies have meaning too, and it being a parody does not preclude the fact that the idea it is meant to convey is retarded faggotry.

What was the purpose? To show you're hypocritical as well.

Except it doesn't. "I point out that they'll reduce the number of skills again in the next elder turds iteration " is not what I'm complaining about. If you were to rewrite your parody with what my actual complaint was it would make absolutely no fucking sense, which is why an attempt to parody my post into making a point that is actually a lie is retarded.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

No there aren't. The codexfags are just as stupid as the rest of the gaming world, only they're considerably more off-putting due to their arrogance and self esteem that far surpasses their actual intellect and skills.

Only on the codex do you see retardedness like praising gothic 2 which has about 10 skills and complaining that Skyrim has "only" 18 even though 18 is about as many as the holy trinity's Fallout 1 had. It's pure unadulterated

Yes, you did. Ventilator is perfectly correct with what he said, while you are making up little fibs. Again.

 

[Mastermind]

No there aren't. The codexfags are just as stupid as the rest of the gaming world, only they're considerably more off-putting due to their arrogance and self esteem that far surpasses their actual intellect and skills.

Only on the codex do you see retardedness like praising gothic 2 which has about 10 skills and complaining that Skyrim has "only" 18 even though 18 is about as many as the holy trinity's Fallout 1 had. It's pure unadulterated

Yes, you did. Ventilator is perfectly correct with what he said, while you are making up little fibs. Again.

Where do I say anything about "point out that they reduced the number of skills"?

My explicit complaint reads "complaining that Skyrim has "only" 18".

Complaining (my words) =/= "pointing out" (VD's words).

The former takes a negative stance. The latter takes a neutral stance.

"only 18 skills" (my words) =/= "reduce skills" (VD's words).

The former is an absolute statement, the latter is a relative statement.

The two are not the same. They have distinctly different meanings to anyone with a serviceable knowledge of the English language.

Stick to eating ass and leave the actual argumentation to the intellectual elite. Which is basically just me ever since Cleve drowned.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

No, you didn't.

I make a statement rebutting the idea that the codex membership is somehow more intelligent than the average gamer, with the skills debate as an example. The example was about how codexfags whine about skyrim having only 18 skills while pretty much ignoring the fact that Fallout 1 also had "only" 18 skills.

Yes, but it's not about the absolute number of skills in comparison to some arbitrary different RPG. The criticism was about the continual "dumbing down", streamlining of the ES char system. 18 is less than 21 right? And 21 was less than 27. Therefore you didn't make much more sense than circ, he started babbling about NWN2 engine, you interpreted the criticism that the number of skills get reduced again as hypocrisy because some other unrelated game has only 18 skills too. Here's your original complaint to illustrate it:

Only on the codex do you see retardedness like praising gothic 2 which has about 10 skills and complaining that Skyrim has "only" 18 even though 18 is about as many as the holy trinity's Fallout 1 had.

See, you're not making much sense too, unless you genuinely believe that because some other RPG had only X skills the reduction of skills in Skyrim must not be mentioned in a negative manner. The hypocrisy!!?? But feel free to take everything personal and go all anal about it.

 

[circ]

Hahaha intellectual elite. You're really trying to suck major cock for that ubermensch tag aren't you?

 

[Mastermind]

Yes, but it's not about the absolute number of skills in comparison to some arbitrary different RPG. The criticism was about the continual "dumbing down", streamlining of the ES char system. 18 is less than 21 right? And 21 was less than 27.

Isn't this an unwarranted assumption? How do you know that this is specifically what I was referring to? Furthermore, lowering the number of skills =/= dumbing down. It is possible to make a game that has fewer skills than another game and yet be more deep and complex. Here, I'll give you an example:

Say we have a game exactly like fallout except the small guns skill is split into pistols, shotguns, rifles, but has no option to target specific body parts. Is this game more complex than Fallout? I would say no. There are more skills, but the skills themselves are still shallow and have turned an otherwise mediocre to useful skill into a mediocre to shit skill. Furthermore, it's missing one of the two main ways of fighting through the game (eye shots). When skills went down from morrowind to oblivion, the depth of a good chunk of them increased. You got new fighting moves. You got "perks" like sneak running or backstab amplifiers. The depth wasn't much on an absolute level but there was a lot more to an oblivion skill than a morrowind skill. However, the codexers (and beth forum fans for that matter, not that there's any significant difference between the two) never perform any deep analysis to determine whether a game has indeed been dumbed down by the reduction in skills (i would say it has in some areas, and done the reverse in others). In fact it's impossible to do this with skyrim as we only know what less than half the skills are and only know what a couple of the perks do. A reasonable intellectual would wait until the perks/skills list was out and then perform a solid analysis of the difference between that and oblivion/morrowind. But that's not what happens here. It's just "HERP SKILLS WENT DONW IT MUST BE DUMBED DOWN CONSOLE SHIT DERP" all the way.

In other words, the reduction of skills is just an excuse. Fallout's poorly balanced 18 skills was more than enough, but the same number in skyrim = popamole shit. And it's not about the number of skills themselves but about the fact that it's made by Bethesda and whereas 18 skills is enough if Fagellone decides it is, they're popamole shit if Turd Howard decides it. Hence the retarded hypocrisy.

See, you're not making much sense too, unless you genuinely believe that because some other RPG had only X skills the reduction of skills in Skyrim must not be mentioned in a negative manner.

No, the reduction of skills can be mentioned in a negative manner if it's actually analyzed and shown to be "dumbing down". Nothing of the sort is done. People see 18, decide it's not enough for whatever reason and just use the number as an argument that it must be dumbed down/decline/whatever.

The hypocrisy!!?? But feel free to take everything personal and go all anal about it.

I didn't take it personally. I'm a troll, remember? I may go overboard insulting people for no good reason whatsoever. FFS

 

[Mastermind]

Hahaha intellectual elite. You're really trying to suck major cock for that ubermensch tag aren't you?

Why would I? If it was genuinely worth getting it would have been given to me on my first day here.

 

[hoverdog]

Show/Hide :: Click here to show/hide the hidden post made by Mastermind.

 

[Lockkaliber]

droog-kun

 

[Silellak]

This thread is now about how much the Codex loves Mastermind.

 

[Lesifoere]

You have successfully added Mastermind to your ignore list.

 

[poocolator]

I was thinking of killing myself the other day;
but then i played minesweeper and it changed my life.

thanks, microsoft!

 

[Mastermind]

You have successfully added Mastermind to your ignore list.

I care deeply that some faggot I've never seen or heard of stuck his fingers in his ears and started chanting la la la.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Did I say that they weren't?

Still, there's more people who know what they're talking about in the Codex than in any other forum I've visited.

No there aren't. The codexfags are just as stupid as the rest of the gaming world, only they're considerably more off-putting due to their arrogance and self esteem that far surpasses their actual intellect and skills.

Only on the codex do you see retardedness like praising gothic 2 which has about 10 skills and complaining that Skyrim has "only" 18 even though 18 is about as many as the holy trinity's Fallout 1 had. It's pure unadulterated .

First, I don't recall Gothic being ever praised for its character system or dialogues. In fact, I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees that they are the weakest aspect of the games.

Second, praising a game doesn't mean praising every feature it has. I don't recall seeing any claims that well liked games like Fallout, Arcanum, Planescape, Bloodlines, Daggerfall, Wizardry, etc were perfect in every way. Quite the opposite is true, actually.

Third, the issue here isn't the number of skills, but the continuous dumbing down. From 36 skills and advantages/disadvantages in DF to 27 in MW to 21 in Oblivion to 18 in Skyrim. I don't think anyone would have complained if there were reasons to believe that Bethesda will do more with less, but it's clearly not the case. Whether or not other games had more or less skills is absolutely irrelevant.

 

[hoverdog]

*Some* developers should focus on finishing their game instead of browsing forums.

 

[denizsi]

I don't think anyone would have complained if there were reasons to believe that Bethesda will do more with less, but it's clearly not the case. Whether or not other games had more or less skills is absolutely irrelevant.

Well they did, sort of, do more with less in Oblivion after Morrowind. Mastermind explained those. They added much needed variation into the combat skills with perks and all the different moves, though honestly I don't know how good or bad they worked. I could never endure through the game long enough to see beyond level 5. Playing Oblivion was like experiencing spiritual death.

 

[Davaris]

"Still, there's more people who know what they're talking about in the Codex than in any other forum I've visited."

No.

Yet you are a member of the Codex, that claims to know what they are talking about.




As for this listening to people on forums or not, the only logical course of action is for the dev to do what works for them.

 

[Volourn]

"Yet you are a member of the Codex, that claims to know what they are talking about."

I'm also a member of other forums. Your point?

Plus, I'm an arrogant piece of shit like everybody else on the net. Your point?




"As for this listening to people on forums or not, the only logical course of action is for the dev to do what works for them."

No doubt.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't think anyone would have complained if there were reasons to believe that Bethesda will do more with less, but it's clearly not the case. Whether or not other games had more or less skills is absolutely irrelevant.

Well they did, sort of, do more with less in Oblivion after Morrowind. Mastermind explained those. They added much needed variation into the combat skills with perks and all the different moves...

Did they?

Let's see, Blade:

* A Novice does a basic power attack with a damage bonus (2.5 times more damage) in all directions.
* An Apprentice gains damage bonuses with a Mastery Standing Power Attack (3 times more damage).
* A Journeyman gains the Mastery Left and Right Power Attacks, which do 2.5 times more damage and have a 5% chance to disarm.
* An Expert gains a Mastery Backwards Power Attack, which does 2.5 times more damage and has a 5% chance of a knockdown.
* A Master gains a Mastery Forward Power Attack, which does 2.5 times more damage with a 5% chance to paralyze. This Paralyze effect ignores Resist Paralysis.

Blunt:

* A Novice does a basic power attack with a damage bonus (2.5 times more damage) in all directions.
* An Apprentice gains damage bonuses with a Mastery Standing Power Attack (3 times more damage).
* A Journeyman gains the Mastery Left and Right Power Attacks, which both do 2.5 times more damage and have a 5% chance to disarm.
* An Expert gains a Mastery Backwards Power Attack, which does 2.5 times more damage and has a 5% chance of a knockdown.
* A Master gains a Mastery Forward Power Attack, which does 2.5 times more damage with a 5% chance to paralyze. This Paralyze effect ignores Resist Paralysis.

Where is the "much needed variation"?

In Morrowind, in case you've forgotten, you could perform Chopping, Slashing, and Thrusting attacks, which actually worked better for certain weapons (axes are good for chopping and slashing, spears (you remember spears, don't you?) for thrusting, long blades for slashing and chopping, etc.

In Daggerfall you could do horizontal slashes (no bonuses/penalties), diagonal slashes (more damage, to hit penalty), vertical chops (a lot of damage, high to-hit penalty), and thrust (less damage, to-hit bonus).

So, how exactly has the system been improved in Oblivion?

 

[circ]

Burn?

 

[Jaesun]

 

[kris]

But Jeff Vogel also makes a good point: The people on your forums do NOT represent the majority of gamers. Therefore, I suggest a compromise.

Read your forums, but don't take them too seriously.

Your posting as Andhaira this time. It seems like you forgot that.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

Where is the "much needed variation"?

In Morrowind, in case you've forgotten, you could perform Chopping, Slashing, and Thrusting attacks, which actually worked better for certain weapons (axes are good for chopping and slashing, spears (you remember spears, don't you?) for thrusting, long blades for slashing and chopping, etc.

Automatically using the highest damage attack type isn't variation.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Only if you pick the "always use the best attack" option.