Game News Age of Decadence May Update

[CorpseZeb]

You just don't grasp how indie AoD is.

Don't argue with that, sir. But its not 'bout my grasp, but steam grasp of indienesesssesses'es.

 

[DwarvenFood]

I would love AoD to be on Steam if only for the unlocks of achievements. I have declined.

 

[Elwro]

Well, one bad thing is patching. Eschalon players who bought the game on Steam had to wait more than a month, I think, to get the patches (after they were released of course) -- which was entirely out of control of the devs. In the unlikely case that AoD will require a patch, this could be bad. I say: go on Steam when the game is fully patched and in no need for further technical support.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Oh noes! What will we do now?

I don't really care about Steam (in a "I don't expect it to perform miracles" sense) or other portals because I'm not sure that AoD has the right appeal to benefit from such exposure. Text-heavy, turn-based RPGs without monsters and magic don't tend to sell a lot, do they?

How could they sell if there are none games like AoD on the market? If you would not even try then it will not sell for sure. What was the last game that feat your description? FO2? That sold well, at least let your game fail in sales before declaring decline. So what if popamole360 will sell 500x better then your game? The market is much bigger now, taking much smaller cut from it can be as big as mainstream cut in 1998. If you think that everybody who liked Fallout either visits codex or will not be interested in AoD then you are delusional.

Your game could be pretty popular in Poland, and yes mostly because of people that don't visit the codex or other sources that could inform them about your game, but why believe somebody who actually lives there, you would be shocked if you would see how much shelve space there is for PC games in big shops, you would be paid more potatoes then you had seen in your life, you would be living like a king never being hungry again, and throwing away yesterdays potatoes to always eat the fresh ones.

Yeah, we actually have Mount and Blade getting sold in stores.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If it gets added on Steam, GOG, Direct2drive, Gamersgate and other DD stores, people will know about it. AoD isn't targeted at the mainstream gamer who buys anything the TV advertises. Gamers who enjoy this type of game are very likely to be using these services.

Yeah, but VD had said that even those services are to mainstream to benefit AoD.

I didn't say that they are too mainstream. I said that AoD is a game with a very limited appeal and I'm not sure if the mainstream exposure will help us much.

How could they sell if there are none games like AoD on the market?

Ask yourself why. Is it because AoD features are so innovative that it's the first game of its kind or is it because these games never sell well?

FO2? That sold well...

Did it? From what I've heard the game sold 60-80,000 at full price and under 200,000 (Desslock said "slightly less than 150,000") overall. Compare it to BG and Diablo sales.

If you think that everybody who liked Fallout either visits codex or will not be interested in AoD then you are delusional.

I'm not saying it and I think we did a good job spreading the word about the game. I'm just trying to be, well, realistic.

Your game could be pretty popular in Poland, and yes mostly because of people that don't visit the codex or other sources that could inform them about your game, but why believe somebody who actually lives there, you would be shocked if you would see how much shelve space there is for PC games in big shops, you would be paid more potatoes then you had seen in your life, you would be living like a king never being hungry again, and throwing away yesterdays potatoes to always eat the fresh ones.

I'm aware of it and we'll do our best to reach them.

 

[LibertyRansom]

Distribution is one of the most important elements in the marketing mix. Spread your web as far as possible to catch the most flies.

Consumers live in a market place where they drop off if it's not a button click away or if they need to navigate to someplace they've never heard of. Even having to put their credit card information in again is enough of a hassle to detract a majority of impulse buys. There are a lot of market segments and potential consumers that may never hear of your game if not for steam.

When it comes to selling entertainment, you have to come to the consumer, you can't expect to the consumer to come to you (or your website).

I don't know the contract agreement between steam and whether they want all distribution rights but if all steam does, once accepted in their program, is host and accept a commission, there is really no reason not to. At the very least it serves as more promotion and will catch more eyes.

 

[SuicideBunny]

I said that AoD is a game with a very limited appeal and I'm not sure if the mainstream exposure will help us much.

you could always ask the winter voices devs if going steam did anything for them. they seem to have sold at least a couple copies through steam.

besides, any exposure is good exposure, especially if you do not have a big marketing budget.

 

[Severian Silk]

You might want to give WildTangent a shot. I know computer savvy people hate it, but anytime the name of your game appears next to Bejeweled it's going to be good for sales.

 

[Lumpy]

Distribution is one of the most important elements in the marketing mix. Spread your web as far as possible to catch the most flies.

Consumers live in a market place where they drop off if it's not a button click away or if they need to navigate to someplace they've never heard of. Even having to put their credit card information in again is enough of a hassle to detract a majority of impulse buys. There are a lot of market segments and potential consumers that may never hear of your game if not for steam.

When it comes to selling entertainment, you have to come to the consumer, you can't expect to the consumer to come to you (or your website).

I don't know the contract agreement between steam and whether they want all distribution rights but if all steam does, once accepted in their program, is host and accept a commission, there is really no reason not to. At the very least it serves as more promotion and will catch more eyes.

Precisely.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that your only customers are hyped-up fans. For a relatively cheap game like AoD, there should be a lot of potential customers who might buy your game if it's not too much of a hassle. You can't expect them to read up on the game, carefully reflect whether it's a rational purchase, and then go though whatever one-off buying procedure you set up on your website.

True, Steam takes a share of the profits. But you're a budding developer - you don't need only profits, you need fans. "From the makers of AoD" won't mean anything on your next game, if only 10000 people have played it in total.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Like I said, I'm not against putting AoD on Steam to see what happens and I'm not against splitting revenues. We'll definitely consider it and similar sites. More exposure is better than less exposure and all that.

As I'm sure you know, we've always tried to spread the word and get in touch with different gaming sites and magazines, and we're not planning to sit on our asses and hope that enough people will visit our site.

 

[J_C]

Now instead of arguing about Steam, get back to work you slacker! We need AoD!

Seriously, do you have a release date? I will be satisfied with a year. 2011 or 2012?

 

[Kraszu]

I didn't say that they are too mainstream. I said that AoD is a game with a very limited appeal and I'm not sure if the mainstream exposure will help us much. .

That is what I had meant. Anyway in worst case scenario you would loose much if you would sell AoD on your website for some time, and then try to get it on Stream.

Like I said, I'm not against putting AoD on Steam to see what happens and I'm not against splitting revenues. We'll definitely consider it and similar sites. More exposure is better than less exposure and all that.

As I'm sure you know, we've always tried to spread the word and get in touch with different gaming sites and magazines, and we're not planning to sit on our asses and hope that enough people will visit our site.

Oh ok. I should refresh before posting.

FO2? That sold well...

Did it? From what I've heard the game sold 60-80,000 at full price and under 200,000 (Desslock said "slightly less than 150,000") overall. Compare it to BG and Diablo sales. [/quote]

1)Aren't those numbers only for USA? I was thinking that it sold 200k on full price. Still PS:T didn't sold good either yet it offers the same quality of graphics, gameplay, and D&D as BG so the reason for how many copies a game had sold vary from allot of factors. Morrowind did offer strange world rather then classic fantasy settings like BG yet it did sold good.
2)Those numbers are big enough to stay profitable with small development team, no? Now the play base is much bigger, it would be strange if TB strategy games with mediocre graphics like GC could sell yet AoD could not, it seem odd that there isn't at least some big minority of people who would like both TB strategy, and TB crpg games.
3)Arcanum had sold over 300k. I have hard time to believe that people who had enjoyed Arcanum were retarded enough to think that its RT combat was better then TB combat is. 300k was pretty good for 2002 no? Ironically Troika had flopped because they did try to be more mainstream with VTM:B that sold much worse then Arcanum despite conventional wisdom that FPS/TPS combat sells better.

You or other indie developers don't require the game to sold very fast, CRPG do sell over long period of time that doesn't look good for publishers who want to reinvest they income.

btw. how good did FO1 did in sales?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Still PS:T didn't sold good either yet it offers the same quality of graphics, gameplay, and D&D as BG...

Generic action fantasy with Drizzt Fucking Do'urden? Playing a heroic young lad coming of age and discovering that he/she is special? That's gold, Jerry! Gold!

PST was about playing an old corpse and reading dialogues to figure out what's going on, which, according to this thread, was very boring.

BG was action driven. PST was text driven. Hence the difference.

Morrowind did offer strange world rather then classic fantasy settings like BG yet it did sold good.

Because it was a first person action game. You run around exploring the world looking for monsters to kill and loot. That's the game in a nutshell.

Those numbers are big enough to stay profitable with small development team, no?

The numbers are great for a small team but an indie game will never sell as much as a "professional" game from a reputable company that was sold in stores. We can only hope for a fraction of that.

Now the play base is much bigger...

More people are playing Call of Duty, you mean?

3)Arcanum had sold over 300k. I have hard time to believe that people who had enjoyed Arcanum were retarded enough to think that its RT combat was better then TB combat is. 300k was pretty good for 2002 no?

It sold 234,000 copies generating 8.8 mil, according to NDP. It wasn't "pretty good" by any standards. Even 10 years ago a game selling under 500k was considered a flop.

Ironically Troika had flopped because they did try to be more mainstream with VTM:B that sold much worse then Arcanum despite conventional wisdom that FPS/TPS combat sells better.

They had no choice. After Arcanum tanked and they've lost the license, they could only work with what was offered. He who pays the piper calls the tune and all that.

I'm sure you know that they wanted to make a post-apoc isometric game and shopped it around but the publishers' reaction was "what is this I don't even!!!"

btw. how good did FO1 did in sales?

150-200k from what I've heard. Some claimed 400k but if that was the case Fallout 2 would have sold more and Interplay wouldn't have had to put FO3 on hold multiple times to make IWD games.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Should definitely try AoD on Steam. That kind of wide-spread exposure can't hurt (you'll get a lot of eyeballs just from being in the Newest Releases list, I know I check that everytime I check Steam). In fact, for some devs it has turned looming failure into great success (Amnesia)

Also, Eschalon is on Steam and it is every bit as niche as AoD. In fact, why not fire off an email to ol' Basilisk Wrangler and ask him what impact, if any, being on Steam has had?

Other niche titles on Steam : Depths of Peril, Age of Wonders, Gothic series, Space Rangers 2, Dangerous High School Girls in Trouble, Europa Universalis, Oddworld : Abe's Odyssey, SpaceChem, Monkey Island, Jagged Alliance 2.

Seriously, there are much more niche products on Steam than an old-school TB RPG. It's just a marketplace, pre-assuming anything about the type of gamer who uses it is folly, a digital marketplace can cater to any niche or all niches at the same time, unlike a physical store where you fight for shelf space. Personally, I will always look to buy a game on Steam first, just for convenience.

 

[Kraszu]

Morrowind did offer strange world rather then classic fantasy settings like BG yet it did sold good.

Because it was a first person action game. You run around exploring the world looking for monsters to kill and loot. That's the game in a nutshell.

Yet it did have walls of text, and you had to find things on your own just with a directions given. Also the combat wasn't really action-y it sucked so much gameplay wise that nobody was playing the game just for it right? Anyway the strangeness didn't put the people off it is not like they didn't have action games in more traditional fantasy too choose instead of MW.

3)Arcanum had sold over 300k. I have hard time to believe that people who had enjoyed Arcanum were retarded enough to think that its RT combat was better then TB combat is. 300k was pretty good for 2002 no?

It sold 234,000 copies generating 8.8 mil, according to NDP. It wasn't "pretty good" by any standards. Even 10 years ago a game selling under 500k was considered a flop. [/quote]

I had miss reader 234 for 324

Ironically Troika had flopped because they did try to be more mainstream with VTM:B that sold much worse then Arcanum despite conventional wisdom that FPS/TPS combat sells better.

They had no choice. After Arcanum tanked and they've lost the license, they could only work with what was offered. He who pays the piper calls the tune and all that.

I'm sure you know that they wanted to make a post-apoc isometric game and shopped it around but the publishers' reaction was "what is this I don't even!!!"

I didn't know the timing of that.

 

[OSK]

The key to selling big on Steam is exclusive TF2 hats.

 

[SuicideBunny]

The key to selling big on Steam is exclusive TF2 hats.

also a price between 5 and 15€

 

[KevinV12000]

I don't see any real downside to taking it to Steam if possible.

So, say they take 25%. The only way that is a loser for Iron Tower is if they believe they will be losing direct sales to Steam. If they feel the two groups of potential buyers are in large part separate then receiving 75% of a sale otherwise not made is a huge gain.

I know the lads aren't in it for money and it's a labor of love, but, still, the more support they get, the more they can continue with that labor, and maybe--just maybe--a good showing would demonstrate to the oh-so-smart MBAs out there making game production calls that there is a market for these types of games.

Best of luck to you VD. I'm really rooting for you guys. It's one thing to bitch and moan about dumbed down modern games, but quite another to fucking do something about it.

 

[Lumpy]

I don't see any real downside to taking it to Steam if possible.

So, say they take 25%. The only way that is a loser for Iron Tower is if they believe they will be losing direct sales to Steam. If they feel the two groups of potential buyers are in large part separate then receiving 75% of a sale otherwise not made is a huge gain.

I know the lads aren't in it for money and it's a labor of love, but, still, the more support they get, the more they can continue with that labor, and maybe--just maybe--a good showing would demonstrate to the oh-so-smart MBAs out there making game production calls that there is a market for these types of games.

Best of luck to you VD. I'm really rooting for you guys. It's one thing to bitch and moan about dumbed down modern games, but quite another to fucking do something about it.

That isn't quite true. I think most everyone who already has Steam would prefer to buy it there.

Can you go on Steam after the release? If you kept it off Steam for one month, you'd probably have most of the fanbase buying it from you directly - plus, when it hits the "New Releases" list, it will probably be at the peak of its popularity on the Internet.

 

[LibertyRansom]

That isn't quite true. I think most everyone who already has Steam would prefer to buy it there.

Can you go on Steam after the release? If you kept it off Steam for one month, you'd probably have most of the fanbase buying it from you directly - plus, when it hits the "New Releases" list, it will probably be at the peak of its popularity on the Internet.

There's a pretty palpable solution to this problem:

The game is listed on steam (or whatever digital or physical retailer you prefer) for $20. the game is listed on the Iron Tower's website for $19. Therefore consumers who know of the game prior to seeing it in a distributor's hand will, as all of us of the internet generation do, find the cheapest deal. This will serve to direct all AoD aware consumers to the Developers website to download (giving Iron Towers the Full 19) and additionally, they might stop by the forums, join the community, be further integrated and reeducated etc. While at the same time this will benefit Iron Tower, as those potential consumers that are unaware of AoD or just lazy, will still consume the product upon becoming aware of it by seeing it at their favorite digital/physical retailer (Iron Tower makes $15).

Business Savy Musical Artists do this all the time. The download on itunes is $10 but if you download from the bands website you get it for $9.

 

[J_C]

be further integrated and reeducated etc. .

I like that part! We brainwash and reeducate the newfags and make them our slaves on the Codex. :]

 

[Lumpy]

That isn't quite true. I think most everyone who already has Steam would prefer to buy it there.

Can you go on Steam after the release? If you kept it off Steam for one month, you'd probably have most of the fanbase buying it from you directly - plus, when it hits the "New Releases" list, it will probably be at the peak of its popularity on the Internet.

There's a pretty palpable solution to this problem:

The game is listed on steam (or whatever digital or physical retailer you prefer) for $20. the game is listed on the Iron Tower's website for $19. Therefore consumers who know of the game prior to seeing it in a distributor's hand will, as all of us of the internet generation do, find the cheapest deal. This will serve to direct all AoD aware consumers to the Developers website to download (giving Iron Towers the Full 19) and additionally, they might stop by the forums, join the community, be further integrated and reeducated etc. While at the same time this will benefit Iron Tower, as those potential consumers that are unaware of AoD or just lazy, will still consume the product upon becoming aware of it by seeing it at their favorite digital/physical retailer (Iron Tower makes $15).

Business Savy Musical Artists do this all the time. The download on itunes is $10 but if you download from the bands website you get it for $9.

I'd expect Steam to have some further demands regarding the price. I know VD mentioned how Direct2Drive imposes that the digital version cost the same as the boxed version. Probably not the case with Steam, but I'd venture to say that they wouldn't accept another digital version to be sold cheaper.

 

[LibertyRansom]

I'd expect Steam to have some further demands regarding the price. I know VD mentioned how Direct2Drive imposes that the digital version cost the same as the boxed version. Probably not the case with Steam, but I'd venture to say that they wouldn't accept another digital version to be sold cheaper.

I expect you might be right about that. Another possibility would be to offer some sort of bonus content from downloading from Iron Towers. Though they may contract against this as well.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

By it very nature AoD is a niche game, and word of mouth doesn't work all that well on niche games. It's not like it's a sorta new implementation of an existing concept elsewhere like Minecraft or a popular genre with a sorta new twist like Braid or just something that used to be really fucking popular like Meat Boy. Chances are niche games are known already to a sizeable fraction of their target audience long before they're released.

 

[Jezal_k23]

If worst has to happen, AoD on Steam will sell a couple to people that clicked on the wrong button.

Well I'll buy it without having clicked the wrong button.