Preview Alpha Protocol Makes Sense as an RPG

[MetalCraze]

Shooting a guy 5 meters away from you with an automatic rifle sure do require heavy training


The design idea of console unlockables +10-to-dmg affecting shooter gameplay is one of the most retarded ones out there. FFS

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

"We" implies "we, civilized countries", not african hellholes, DraQ

It still renders the argument invalid.

Firearms are piss easy to shoot with semi-decent accuracy.
Now, morale, maintenance, tactics, coordination, physical fitness, efficient operation of firearms and actually precise shooting do require intensive training and those are the reasons why pros can utterly rape drafted n00bs, but not being able to just shoot someone with a gun at short to medium range is pretty dumb.

Precisely what I was talking about. And we are talking about the case of a single person here, which means all that training is all the more necessary. The principle behind the draft n00b is the same as the musket formation: When enough shoot at the same direction, someone is bound to hit.

You do have to remember that stuff has been like this in RPGs since forever. And yes, it's not the realistic solution, which would be more along the lines of GURPS, where different weapon proficiencies influence the default values of their related weapon proficiencies. But this kind of mechanic is a very gamey thing, and doesn't automatically mean it's a bad thing. The alternative is designing the entire game around making it realistic, not that I wouldn't mind a Twilight 2013 RPG.

 

[DraQ]

Precisely what I was talking about. And we are talking about the case of a single person here, which means all that training is all the more necessary.

But even without training semi-decent accuracy is more than enough to kill someone from several meters with shotgun.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Precisely what I was talking about. And we are talking about the case of a single person here, which means all that training is all the more necessary.

But even without training semi-decent accuracy is more than enough to kill someone from several meters with shotgun.

Then again, realistically most of the time a single hit from an assault rifle at any range puts the target out of commission (not dead, only around the fourth of deaths in war are immediate kills anyway).

That's where we step into the whole game thing. There are only so many ways you can try to balance things.

And in case of realism, it's important to remember that standard buckshot has a lot of trouble with body armor.

 

[DraQ]

And in case of realism, it's important to remember that standard buckshot has a lot of trouble with body armor.

Regardles of skill.

My main peevee with this sort of approach is that it is inconsistent - immersive presentation combined with abstract, game-y mechanics. Such discrepancy is just plain fucking wrong - if you go for detailed, realistic presentation of the in-game events, you should make those events look as would be expected of "realistic" (which may mean "cinematic" in this case) events. Having baddie still standing after receiving several seemingly lethal hits is just retarded.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Precisely what I was talking about. And we are talking about the case of a single person here, which means all that training is all the more necessary.

But even without training semi-decent accuracy is more than enough to kill someone from several meters with shotgun.

Yes, like your sword-wielding warrior could easily pick up a mace and adequately use it if he wanted, but the game still states he will wave it around like a noob because he's not spent any points in Mace skill.

It's a game balance thing, much like "Melee Weapons" makes your guy better at wielding ANY kind of melee "weapon", from clubs to laser katanas.

fake edit: nvm, saw the last post

 

[MetalCraze]

No sorry picking up a mace is a different thing because guns fire and hit instantly from 10 m distances while maces are not as light as guns and require certain skill to actually hit someone who will dodge.

And this is a shooter game. Why ruin it? Any more than console gameplay already did that is.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I was comparing maces and swords + pistols and shotguns, not maces and guns

namely, how this game, like others, doesn't account for "related" skills and is fine with making a pistol / sword user be unable to use a mace / shotgun properly, even though he should.

 

[DraQ]

DX, at least modelled the effectiveness of weapon use somewhat accurately.

Aside from stupid, but not terribly relevant to the actual gameplay, damage bonus skills in DX only influenced how much your aim was messed up by doing anything, recoil management and reload times, plus they had slight effect on maximum accuracy, so you could use weapon very effectively even without proper skills if you could take your time, but if situation heated up, you had to get out of the kitchen.

BG2 is DnD.

 

[MetalCraze]

Gunplay in DX was the worst part of it and exactly because of a bunch of digits ruining it - and I like how the game is constantly brought into AP discussions even though games have about as much in common as Gears of War and Doom - but every time AP looks like shit compared to DX.

And I'm fairly certain that even this morning shotguns and pistols were still guns.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

And I'm fairly certain that even this morning shotguns and pistols were still guns.

...Yeah? I didn't say otherwise.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

The problem with every shooter/RPG-hybrid. Especially got on my nerves in FO3 because the original's mechanics were already more sensible.
But devs seem to think it's easier to balance dmg levels than recticle size, speed, spread, reload time, recoil, etc.

And this makes such little sense when all of the popular shooters have such low damage thresholds especially when compared to the statistics that these Action RPGs are based on or influenced by.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Without making the player choose between being able to shoot pistols or shotguns, it wouldn't be an RPG by modern standards.

Realism doesn't exist in shooters, I'm not going to cry myself to sleep about that.

I was comparing maces and swords + pistols and shotguns, not maces and guns

namely, how this game, like others, doesn't account for "related" skills and is fine with making a pistol / sword user be unable to use a mace / shotgun properly, even though he should.

BG and D&D actually do it pretty well (at least up to the low teens, after which EPOCHness kicks in). The most important thing about a warrior early on is their THAC0, which goes up universally. Adding proficiency increases the attack rate and THAC0 a bit, but a warrior is still able to rape any of the mage or thief classes in straight up melee no matter what weapon he uses.

 

[Lumpy]

Remember that old AP pic where Thorton was jumping straight into a terrorist's assault rifle fire?