Game News Alpha Protocol Not Elite Enough for a Sequel

[MasterSmithFandango]

You do realize the message this failure passes is "Bio's/Beth's way of doing RPGs is better", right? You'll just get more, even shittier rpgs.

How does that logic work again? Is Obsidian's presence in some way inhibiting the number of Bio/Beth RPGs, and with their demise, there will be no stopping TES, FO, and ME titles? Is Obsidian the last bastion of hope for a dying genre?

Or, since Obsidian went with making an ME clone, has the industry already went the way of copying Bio/Beth anyway, and since Obsidian is actually part of the problem, them dying reduces the number of developers making said shit games by one, thereby lessening the amount of shitty "RPGs"?

 

[Davaris]

There is another.

 

[Volourn]

"Come on, Volourn. It didn't have nearly as many previews and pre-release things as FO3. Even random games have advertising on game websites, much like Alpha Protocol."

Come on, Idiot. Nobody claimed it was as high profile as FO3 was; but try to claim that AP wasn't a high profile game is silly.Obsidian is not some 3rd rate shitty unknown developer working out of a closet. Neither is Sega some shirt storm wannabe publisher. Sega is a company with a 20+ year history that is responsible for some of the most popular games ever while Obsidian has been around awhile creating blokcbuster sequels to blockbuster games and wer ehyped from the moment theyw ere created as the 'Next Big Thing'.

AP was not some Iron Tower makebelieve shit; but a top of the line game (lolz) by one of the 'premiere' Western RPG develoeprs (lolz). The game was hyped, pimped, and pushed. It failed because it simply failed.

Stop being an Obsidian fuckin' fanboy. Don't act like the morans on the Obsidian baords who blame everyone BUT Obsidian for AP's failure. FFS

If Obsidian is gonna getc redit for their successes (ie. MOTB0;m they should get blame for their failures. FFS

And, AP being an original IP as an excuse is fuckin' bullshit.

And, this idea it failed ebcause it was a 'true RPG' (which it isn't. it's an action rpg) is bullshit since that surely didn't hurt DA's sales. (like it or not, DA is a RPG flaws and all).

FFS To me, Obsidian is a goodd eveloper that made a subpar game. Fuckin'd eal with it. Just like BIO is a good developer that made a subpar game with Sonic RPG 9and, i say that i didn't even give Sonic a chance, lolz).

FFS

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Is Obsidian the last bastion of hope for a dying genre?

Not really, the wording was awkward. I just think anything that isn't Bio/Beth flopping would just strengthen the already sucessful Bio / Beth way.

 

[Angthoron]

If it strengthens the Bio/Beth way of management and QA (and maybe to a degree PR) for other devs and publishers it would be absolutely wonderful. Most of the other RPG devs can't properly sell their games. Or manage them to not be a pile of bugs and bad decisions.

Obsidian's problem is not that the game itself as a concept was bad - no, as a concept, the game is pretty nice. The graphics are for a change solid, the writing has its moments and the character models aren't in the middle of the Uncanny Valley. However, the way it's all put together is rubbish - the transitions are sewed together with a red thread, the minigames are nonsensical (though I had no problems with getting them done, I found, say, hacking completely stupid), the way the dialogue is carried out is flawed - timer + wheel + one word, wow, the amount of bugs is amazing, the lack of a patch is startling.

Basically the game feels of the whole Obsidian office running like headless chickens trying to put all their ideas together, failing, discarding ideas, making new ones, failing again, then finally in a panicked inspiration put it all into one box and ship it out. They also take a ton of ideas from superiors at various levels of design, a job that the designers are meant to do - not the execs, bleepin' designers! Unless the designers had so little idea what to do that they had to ask the seniors to help them out - but then what sort of designers are those?

 

[commie]

<p>According to Sega West president Mike Hayes, <strong>Alpha Protocol</strong> will <a href="http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=254575" target="_blank">not see a sequel</a>.</p>
<blockquote>"Let's speak very commercially; the game hasn't sold what we've expected, therefore we won't be doing a sequel," said Hayes.<br /><br />"The concept was brilliant, though," he added. "You know this whole thing with Metacritic where you have to be in the high 70s to mid-80s minimum [to have any success] - well, with RPGs you have got to be in the late 80s. <br /><br />"Whilst we had a good game, I don't think we had a game that had enough to get us to that upper echelon and I think that was the issue.<br /><br />"Again, the amount you need to invest to get there is so large because RPGs are naturally big projects. We've decided we won't do a sequel."</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/alpha-protocol-will-only-live-once">Eurogamer</a></p>

Actually Jason you don't even quote the article correctly so who knows if it's genuine.


I agree with CK, there's a lot of cheering here from short sighted fools who don't realise that every failure of something that goes against the formulaic mass production of generic RPG's by Bioware/Beth will INCREASE the amount of turds we get in the future as noone will bother risking anything either making different RPG's or making them in the first place.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You must have some sort of "make the game better" button, because this sure as fuck doesn't work on my game. The only way to save the game after doing any email/shopping is to start another mission.

It works for me just like it works for Djadjamankh

 

[commie]

Fuck, people dare to criticise AP when they don't even know how to fucking save a game? Tetris for you faggots, leave the unpolished diamond that is AP alone!

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Just because AP's failure seems like a step forward for Bethesda and Bioware (which it isn't, you people just suffer from extreme short-sightedness)

Ah, ok then lol, I was worried for a minute, but your detailed reasoning ("no, lol") made me regret my foolishness.

 

[commie]

Yea, you just need to save after replying to the emails or buying shit, which you can do in a safe house. It works.

What happened to your 50 Sheckels alt? Thank fuck I don't have to see that anymore.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

If you really do believe that Obsidian and Bethesda/Bioware are catering to different crowds of people (you all say that you do, but it seems none of you are able to understand what that means) then the success or failure of one has no bearing on the other.

I don't, which is why one I believe flopping will strengthen the other. The same public will flock to the other way.

Use your brian, bro

 

[Shannow]

What irks me is the belief, obviously held by some posters in this thread, that better RPGs will be produced once the current batch of subpar ones fail. No, it doesn't work that way. What will really happen is that companies will stop making RPGs.

The demise of Obsidian will not bring back BIS. It will leave a gaping hole - like the fall of Troika did.

No one said better RPGs would be developed if Obsidian stopped making them. Fewer shitty ones will, though, and that's a plus. I'd rather companies stopped making "RPGs" (are we officially calling AP an RPG?) then releasing bad ones.

You do realize the message this failure passes is "Bio's/Beth's way of doing RPGs is better", right? You'll just get more, even shittier rpgs.

That reasoning is and stays retarded. First there is little difference between Obsidian and Bio (looking at NWN2 vs DA, AP vs MEh, KotOR2 vs KotOR, eg). It's not like the company got into trouble for reviving TB, 2D or putting more "complex" stats into their games. They are in trouble because they made an unpolished MEh clone and have less industry cred/advertising money than Bio/Beth to make up for that.
Do you guys really think Bio/Beth perceive Obsidian as "daring new "things" with superb story-telling"? Think again. Do you really think even if Obsidian did superior story-telling/npcs and staid afloat Bio/Beth would take notice and change their games? Think again.
The only lesson Bio/Beth might learn is that you can get into trouble even if you're rather big if you release unpolished, buggy, "frustrating because of bad design decisisions" games. And that actually wouldn't be a bad lesson for any dev.

Now back to Azarkon's first retarded claim: Please point out all those posts that say we'll get better RPGs if Obsidian dies, because I somehow missed all of them

OT: They still have two slam dunks in the line and if those aren't too buggy or otherwise broken I'm sure they'll sell well and Obsidian won't go down. I'd also like them to stay in business, another studio that might eventually release a game worth playing. The chances between Bio, Beth and Obsidian are slim but they'd be slimmer without Obsidian.

 

[Angthoron]

I don't think there is some Obsidian/Bethesda/Bioware dichotomy, these companies profit from working with each other, and that is something a lot of you don't seem to get.

This. If Bioware came to Obsidian and said, "Hey, make us a ME spin-off with Tali being the protagonist", Obsidian would do it. Alright, they'd make it more philosophical in the dialogues perhaps, and there'd be more imagination used in the said dialogues, but Obsidian would still make ME:Tali. They're already making F:NV. They're not an hero against an world, no. They're a business company that's bad at the whole business thing.

Maybe, if the game industry wasn't what it is today, Obsidian would take their time like Cleve and once a decade publish a gem. Maybe, if they had proper management, they would cut that period by, oh, five, and produce a gem anyway. Unfortunately, they do not. Unfortunately, they do not change their managers, nor do they at least bother to train them all to a proper state. Big mistake. Who knows, maybe their coders actually do not suck, it's that the whole production lacks a proper focus. Maybe. But the fact is, there's no point in sticking up for the underdog when the underdog has repeatedly landed itself in a pile of shit.

You're like a wife excusing an abusive husband, apologists. "Oh, but he hits me because he loves me, and he has stress, and his manager is a dick! The bruises will go away! And where would I go anyway? He's like the bestest in the world! Don't you dare speak badly about him!"

This husband doesn't need your sympathy, he needs a coucillor company doesn't need your sympathy, it needs major restructuring.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Do you guys really think Bio/Beth perceive Obsidian as "daring new "things" with superb story-telling"? Think again. Do you really think even if Obsidian did superior story-telling/npcs and staid afloat Bio/Beth would take notice and change their games? Think again.

Does it really matter what they think? They'll just carry on doing their own thing, it has worked well for them until now. I was thinking it's a message to the public and other companies.

The only lesson Bio/Beth might learn is that you can get into trouble even if you're rather big if you release unpolished, buggy, "frustrating because of bad design decisisions" games. And that actually wouldn't be a bad lesson for any dev.

Knowing them, the lesson learned will be "gotta streamline some more"

 

[Andhaira]

How does this bode for the WOT rpg Obsidian is said to be working on?

 

[commie]

How does this bode for the WOT rpg Obsidian is said to be working on?

Hopefully it won't matter too much. Actually I think Obsidian's fault apart from their limited talent pool, is that they had SEGA as the publisher. What the fuck were they thinking? SEGA only bothered with AP just like with Order of War to try and get a cheap way into the Western market with more than just Sonic the Headjob and Total War. SEGA hasn't the patience for lengthy development or polishing of games and their post release support is laughable. Just see how Total War has really declined under SEGA's rule.

 

[SuicideBunny]

meh, too bad. i was hoping for a sequel that wasn't plagued by shitty decision flipflopping for two years.
one without maps full of doors that close behind you and cannot be opened for no other reason than just to annoy you.
or corridor map design.

 

[Mortmal]

Its really not worth crying about , as said before that game was a mixed bag, its nothing like troika disappearing after making VTMB and TOE, they were doing a mass effect spin offand they are still alive, not for long but still. They went the way of action gaming and dumbing down, the alpha protocol mitsoda envisioned was probably much more close of a rpg. Now they are working on a dungeon siege clone, and a chrono trigger game, anyone really excited about it ?
Another hack an slash so close of diablo 3 release it smells commercial fail , if they keep the same special obsidian camera angles its guaranteed fail.Theres so many hack slash, some for 1$ or so on team like torchlight, the fact dungeon siege 3 is prettier doesnt matter much.

 

[Twinkle]

Just see how Total War has really declined under SEGA's rule.

Yeah, fucking evil japanese overlords, poor CA didn't have enough money to hire some AI programmers and test the whole thing during 5(!!!) years of development. Sounds like totally fucked up project management on developer's side and a design consisting of cramming as must features as possible without a basic thought of how they will work together.

Also, M2TW - Kingdoms came out during SEGA's rule and was the best out-of-the-box Total War title in recent years.

 

[commie]

Just see how Total War has really declined under SEGA's rule.

Yeah, fucking evil japanese overlords, poor CA didn't have enough money to hire some AI programmers and test the whole thing during 5(!!!) years of development. Sounds like totally fucked up project management on developer's side and a design consisting of cramming as must features as possible without a basic thought of how they will work together.

Also, M2TW - Kingdoms came out during SEGA's rule and was the best out-of-the-box Total War title in recent years.

Kingdoms is the exception that proves the rule. CA didn't want to make patches and SEGA didn't want to pay for them and that's why the only improvements came in the expansion. Kingdoms also worked because of the much smaller scale, a few factions and more realistic and constrained 'empire building' which the mediocre AI could at least barely attempt a decent game.

 

[Shannow]

The only lesson Bio/Beth might learn is that you can get into trouble even if you're rather big if you release unpolished, buggy, "frustrating because of bad design decisisions" games. And that actually wouldn't be a bad lesson for any dev.

Knowing them, the lesson learned will be "gotta streamline some more"

How so? Beth/Bio have been dumbing down (as an aside: streamlining by itself isn't bad. Compared to NWN2 KotC is very streamlined, ie everything is easier to use: far less hassle in combat, crafting, camera control, etc. "Streamlining" is just bad when companies use it as an euphemism or excuse for dumbing down. And even then it can be a pure matter of preference.) their games since BG2/Daggerfall. How can you come to the conclusion that Obsidian has any impact on that development, especially since they copied much of it. Again, Obsidian doesn't have problems because their games were too complex and oldschool for consoletards, they're having problems primarily because their games are un-finished/polished/patched and buggy. And secondarily because they failed to copy Bio well.
Seriously, I'm flabbergasted by your ridiculous claims. As VD would say: the mind boggles.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Just see how Total War has really declined under SEGA's rule.

Yeah, fucking evil japanese overlords, poor CA didn't have enough money to hire some AI programmers and test the whole thing during 5(!!!) years of development. Sounds like totally fucked up project management on developer's side and a design consisting of cramming as must features as possible without a basic thought of how they will work together.

Also, M2TW - Kingdoms came out during SEGA's rule and was the best out-of-the-box Total War title in recent years.

Kingdoms is the exception that proves the rule. CA didn't want to make patches and SEGA didn't want to pay for them and that's why the only improvements came in the expansion. Kingdoms also worked because of the much smaller scale, a few factions and more realistic and constrained 'empire building' which the mediocre AI could at least barely attempt a decent game.

Oh yeah...

CA are one of the worst creatures floating around when it comes to QA..

Shogun, admittedly, was fairly good straight from the word go, yet even then there was one patch, and still bugs hanging around when they called it quits.

Then MTW1 steps up. It needs a patch. CA eventually puts one out, then releases Viking Invasion, which creates a few nasty new bugs, and CA initially says "no more patches". Someone creates the "I will not buy Rome TW until Viking gets a patch" thread, in which many, many people register a similar attitude, and finally CA release a patch that fixes most of the bugs.

By the time Rome rolled around, again it takes god knows how many patches, then patches for the expansion (we are talking years between patches), then fixes made by fans before it is anything half decent....and don't bring up MTW2. What a bug infested POS. And the funniest thing is that you had to buy the Kingdoms expansion to get the patch for the vanilla game!! Haha! Brilliant!

So, we have 3 publishers....Same problem every time. If only someone else would release clones of these games, polished clones, CA would fall over within 6 months. They basically make the same game, time and again, except the graphics get better, the bugs get worse, and the AI becomes increasingly more stupid.

 

[.Sigurd]

and a chrono trigger game

Uh?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Seriously, I'm flabbergasted by your ridiculous claims. As VD would say: the mind boggles.

Don't be so fucking dramatic. We're talking about fucking game companies, just explain how I'm wrong.

*reads post*

Ah, ok.

 

[Forest Dweller]

What irks me is the belief, obviously held by some posters in this thread, that better RPGs will be produced once the current batch of subpar ones fail. No, it doesn't work that way. What will really happen is that companies will stop making RPGs.

The demise of Obsidian will not bring back BIS. It will leave a gaping hole - like the fall of Troika did.

No one said better RPGs would be developed if Obsidian stopped making them. Fewer shitty ones will, though, and that's a plus. I'd rather companies stopped making "RPGs" (are we officially calling AP an RPG?) then releasing bad ones.

You do realize the message this failure passes is "Bio's/Beth's way of doing RPGs is better", right? You'll just get more, even shittier rpgs.

That reasoning is and stays retarded. First there is little difference between Obsidian and Bio (looking at NWN2 vs DA, AP vs MEh, KotOR2 vs KotOR, eg). It's not like the company got into trouble for reviving TB, 2D or putting more "complex" stats into their games. They are in trouble because they made an unpolished MEh clone and have less industry cred/advertising money than Bio/Beth to make up for that.
Do you guys really think Bio/Beth perceive Obsidian as "daring new "things" with superb story-telling"? Think again. Do you really think even if Obsidian did superior story-telling/npcs and staid afloat Bio/Beth would take notice and change their games? Think again.
The only lesson Bio/Beth might learn is that you can get into trouble even if you're rather big if you release unpolished, buggy, "frustrating because of bad design decisisions" games. And that actually wouldn't be a bad lesson for any dev.

Now back to Azarkon's first retarded claim: Please point out all those posts that say we'll get better RPGs if Obsidian dies, because I somehow missed all of them

OT: They still have two slam dunks in the line and if those aren't too buggy or otherwise broken I'm sure they'll sell well and Obsidian won't go down. I'd also like them to stay in business, another studio that might eventually release a game worth playing. The chances between Bio, Beth and Obsidian are slim but they'd be slimmer without Obsidian.

Pretty much this.