Preview Alpha Protocol redefines the RPG genre for next-gen gamers

[sabishii]

gritty modern day realistic backdrop

grtty

modern day

realistic

:splodes:

 

[KreideBein]

It certainly was. Read the vision statement.

It's right on top of page 14.

Oh god that's like totally the main feature of PS:T and says "you can fuck all chicks!"

That picture pretty clearly indicates that it was a main selling point. Not the main selling point, mind you, but one of them. Just like AP, actually.

Are there any games that have this rare and elusive "real" breed of C&C?

Yep, and non-linearity which is called by next-gen codexers "C&C" is certainly not a main feature of PS:T either.

The only game to my knowledge which features "C&C" (I've really come to hate that phrase) to the extent that the Codex loves to extol is Way of the Samurai, which isn't even marketed as a CRPG. Every other game -- Fallout, Arcanum, et cetera -- fall far short of standards set forth by people on the Codex.

It sure did. You could strangle Dustmen in the Mortuary or twist an arm of a thug who tried to rob you. EXTREME dialogue include in the second case. That's just from the top of my head.

Sorry that's not EXTREME. Collar grabbing random people, doing headslams, punching reporters in the face is EXTREME. Punishing thieves and enemies while saving your money/life is not.

So, EXTREME = stuff you don't like, and NOT EXTREME = stuff you do like. Yeah, 'kay, whatever. Both games feature violent dialog options. And besides, what's so bad about having physical stats come into play in dialog? It's actually nice to see a game in which the character's strength or dexterity or whatever opens up new avenues of progressing through a conversation.

And freedom in PST was reduced because Avellone was copying the console shit of the time: jRPGs, amirite?

Just what the fuck PS:T has to do with AP can you answer me? Why do you fanboys constantly bring it into the discussion of any shitty Obsidian game considering that it has next to none relation to Black Isle? Why don't you bring Avellone's Descent to Undermountain, Dark Alliance, KotOR2, his rape of Fallout or the official inspiration aka Mass Effect as examples? Why is it always 10 years old PS:T that "should've had more combat" (c) Avellone?

People bring PST up because many of the same criticisms which are leveled at various Obsidian games apply to PST as well. Since PST is generally very well-regarded here, the obvious reason is to argue that attacking a game for having some (positive) feature which existed in PST is silly.

 

[Zomg]

Keep in mind that thing was a pitch to the suits.

 

[Murk]

Jesus fucking christ, reading over the 'Last Rites' vision statement I was nearly shitting out the WTF.

That document reads 50000x more retardedly than any EXTREME option in Mass Effect or anything ever presented in Alpha Protocol.

 

[Phelot]

People bring PST up because many of the same criticisms which are leveled at various Obsidian games apply to PST as well. Since PST is generally very well-regarded here, the obvious reason is to argue that attacking a game for having some (positive) feature which existed in PST is silly.

I would say that PST has some serious faults and even some downright "Why did they do that?" moments. The scantily clad, default townspeople are among the more serious offenses, especially since the wonderful dialogue often times describes female characters counter to their sprites.

This doesn't change the fact that PST had one of the greatest stories and some of the greatest writing ever done in a video game. And isn't that what is loved about it? No one goes on about how awesome the combat is or how cool the stats are (though I personally enjoyed them) I don't believe in a perfect anything, let alone a perfect RPG so we can excuse PST it's faults because were it does come through, it's so great and so memorable, that it's difficult to dwell on whatever problems we had with it.

Will AP be like this? Who knows... we haven't played it yet, but if it's anything like the more recent games to come out then I suppose it will be fun for however many hours of gameplay the marketing machine says it will and then we'll be bored and ready for the next game.

 

[Phelot]

Jesus fucking christ, reading over the 'Last Rites' vision statement I was nearly shitting out the WTF.

That document reads 50000x more retardedly than any EXTREME option in Mass Effect or anything ever presented in Alpha Protocol.

I'd imagine the design presentation for most games are pretty out there and over the top. It's a sad fact that creative minds and visionaries often times have to stoop to the base level of producers,whether they be music, movies, or video games.

This reminds me of eXtreme Advertising. Pretend it's in all caps and Billy Mays is screaming it from Hell:

Forget fragile elves, rock-humping dwarves, worthless hobbits and with them, the mind-numbing boredom of every RPG ever released. Planescape will leave you groping for a secure foothold…and just when you think you have a feel for the place, the environment will kick you in the ass, changing the rules before your thoughts can tumble back into order.

FUCK YOU NOW THATS EXTREME

 

[KreideBein]

People bring PST up because many of the same criticisms which are leveled at various Obsidian games apply to PST as well. Since PST is generally very well-regarded here, the obvious reason is to argue that attacking a game for having some (positive) feature which existed in PST is silly.

I would say that PST has some serious faults and even some downright "Why did they do that?" moments. The scantily clad, default townspeople are among the more serious offenses, especially since the wonderful dialogue often times describes female characters counter to their sprites.

This doesn't change the fact that PST had one of the greatest stories and some of the greatest writing ever done in a video game. And isn't that what is loved about it? No one goes on about how awesome the combat is or how cool the stats are (though I personally enjoyed them) I don't believe in a perfect anything, let alone a perfect RPG so we can excuse PST it's faults because were it does come through, it's so great and so memorable, that it's difficult to dwell on whatever problems we had with it.

Will AP be like this? Who knows... we haven't played it yet, but if it's anything like the more recent games to come out then I suppose it will be fun for however many hours of gameplay the marketing machine says it will and then we'll be bored and ready for the next game.

I actually agree with everything you wrote. I love the hell out of PST (it's my favorite game, actually), even if it is a bit poor in certain regards. Mostly I was continuing Lestat's points about how criticisms about AP could also be leveled at PST because skyway insists on being a retard in his analysis of AP. It might turn out bad -- there are certainly some worrying things known about it at this point -- but skyway's unhinged ranting about it has reached a singularity of stupidity.

 

[MetalCraze]

So, EXTREME = stuff you don't like, and NOT EXTREME = stuff you do like. Yeah, 'kay, whatever. Both games feature violent dialog options.

All RPGs feature violent options, it's the way they present them. In case with AP it tries to copy Mass Effect's over the top EXTREME. Twisting thief's hand because he tried to rob you and shooting a guy point-blank in the face because it's cool - are two different things.

And besides, what's so bad about having physical stats come into play in dialog? It's actually nice to see a game in which the character's strength or dexterity or whatever opens up new avenues of progressing through a conversation.

Except there are no physical stats in AP just as there are no dialogue stat checks. Let's compare to PS:T huh? AP's interaction part is just an interactive movie where you pick which cutscene you want to watch much like in the crappy Fahrenheir Indigo Prophecy which Avellone called the source of inspiration.

People bring PST up because many of the same criticisms which are leveled at various Obsidian games apply to PST as well. Since PST is generally very well-regarded here, the obvious reason is to argue that attacking a game for having some (positive) feature which existed in PST is silly.

No, they bring PS:T into a discussion because Avellone took part in it 10 years ago - and because it was cool - Obsidian game X will be cool too - because they do that every time any Obsidian's game is mentioned.
Comparing AP to PS:T insults Black Isle's work - because PS:T wasn't an immature dumbed down crap on a par with AP/ME which didn't have minigames instead of skills and all stats didn't end with "big guns". I understand your point about "girls as main feature" - but it surely wasn't hyped on every single presentation.
Try comparing AP to ME - you will find much more similarities, up to just another Obsidian game looking like a mod for just another Bioware game - they even stole GUI from ME.

Jesus fucking christ, reading over the 'Last Rites' vision statement I was nearly shitting out the WTF.

That document reads 50000x more retardedly than any EXTREME option in Mass Effect or anything ever presented in Alpha Protocol.

I think it only proves that PS:T turned out to be good just because there was a creative designer of Planescape setting (Collin McComb) working on it which means that WotC had strong control over Torment. Because all other Avellone's projects had just about enough retarded in them.

 

[Murk]

The writing was definitely there for PS:T, you'd have to credit that to Black Isle. I'm not sure how much of it was from current Obsidian Developers, but aye.

The design document is written atrociously but most of the content it idiotically hypes is still, mostly, solid. The part where there's "truck loads of babes" is identical to about 50 other sections that have the same style, and is roughly 2 sentences long - ass opposed to the areas devoted to characters or other features of the game. That is, not really all that MAIN of a feature.

Still sounds like you're reading one of those retarded pictures you see about Shamwow.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Why don't you bring Avellone's (...) KotOR2 (...) as examples? Why is it always 10 years old PS:T that "should've had more combat" (c) Avellone?

the writing and roleplaying design of KotOR2 are infinitely superior than in most of all (roleplaying) games that came out since its release (and some years before).
if only all other parts of the game were on a par.
damn I want to play this game again, but knowing how much cut content are there and that TSLRP is still not ready I can't.

UH OH.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Why don't you bring Avellone's (...) KotOR2 (...) as examples? Why is it always 10 years old PS:T that "should've had more combat" (c) Avellone?

the writing and roleplaying design of KotOR2 are infinitely superior than in most of all (roleplaying) games that came out since its release (and some years before).
if only all other parts of the game were on a par.
damn I want to play this game again, but knowing how much cut content are there and that TSLRP is still not ready I can't.

UH OH.

Lol, the e-persona was really created THAT recently? I figured it must have been developed at least 18 months ago.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Still sounds like you're reading one of those retarded pictures you see about Shamwow.

B...b..bbut it's a shammy AND a towel!

 

[MetalCraze]

UH OH.

Uh oh what?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Uh oh flip flopping e-persona detected.

 

[MetalCraze]

Where exactly? I never said that writing parts in KotOR2 were bad and other parts were not subpar nor did I discuss it in this thread. What are you talking about anyway?

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Where exactly? I never said that writing parts in KotOR2 were bad and other parts were not subpar nor did I discuss it in this thread. What are you talking about anyway?

It's pretty amazing. I just did a search, and you really didn't bash the writing in KotOR 2 in AP-related threads. Which raises a different question: why do you think Avellone will fail this time?

 

[MetalCraze]

Because, as you've probably noticed, writing is by far not the only thing which bothers me in AP.
I certainly don't think that writing = the whole game.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Thank god I'm not next-gen gamer then, future looks boring.