Anachronism in RPGs

[rusty_shackleford]

It's fantasy, as long as it isn't stupid nobody will care. e.g., Lord of the Rings is filled with anachronisms, especially nearly anything regarding Hobbits.

 

[PompiPompi]

How would you call in English like a metal sheet you put on your eyes, but with a slit to see through?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

How would you call in English like a metal sheet you put on your eyes, but with a slit to see through?

visor

 

[Gregz]

Extreme anachronisms like the following destroy immersion

1. Ray guns in Might and Magic II
   
2. Cyborgs, robots, and space ships in Wizardry 8
   
3. The Space Shuttle in Ultima I

The more moderate types of anachronism are much more interesting

1. Karras' clockwork inventions in Thief 2
   
2. Irenicus' Laboratory
   
3. Arcanum's galvanic and steampunk tech

It's something like demanding hard science fiction within the framework of the gameworld. Plausible scenarios such as mad scientists and gnomish inventors are much more interesting than rando buck rogers-esque bullshit.

 

[JarlFrank]

Let's say, like Ultima 7.
For instance in Ultima 7 there was some scientist/magician talking about how he found diseases are caused by micro creatures.
But even Ultima, the avatar is traveling from the future(or another dimension).

For Ultima 7 you could have picked the alien spaceship on a field, that's a Wing Commander reference. That's the only real anachronism.

Why is it anachronistic for a wizard to find out how diseases are caused? There were many disease theories in ancient and medieval times. While people didn't know about bacteria, they were aware of contagion and other phenomena. Why would it be impossible for a wizard to discover bacteria? He has powerful spells at his disposal, possibly including something that allows him to zoom his eyesight in as closely as he would be able to with a microscope.

How is the Avatar being from our world an anachronism? Ever read Narnia? The "modern human goes to fantasy world" trope is as old as fantasy itself. And as far as the Avatar's real world is concerned, the few scenes we see within it are highly consistent with 90s technology.

Fantasy worlds are not real history. They can have different developments from ours without it being "anachronistic". We can even look into real history and see several inventions that could have had a big impact had they been developed further. The ancient Greeks had steam-powered machines which they used to open temple doors. We can easily imagine the Romans copying that technology and using it to power industry, leading to an industrial revolution 2000 years early. It is not inconceivable that Sumerian alchemists could have discovered gunpowder, bringing muskets to the bronze age battlefields.

Fantasy worlds usually have magic which highly impacts technological and societal development. Wizards can do a lot of interesting shit with their spells. Add to that all the potential discoveries that were possible throughout the ancient and medieval periods (that just didn't happen for one reason or another), and you can go wild.

If you want to be pedantic you can even claim that Morrowind is "anachronistic" because Imperial soldiers wear Roman-style helmets while their civilians wear renaissance-style clothing, and IRL those two styles were at least 1000 years apart!!

 

[JarlFrank]

Even if you have a game with Wizards and Dragons, it will be kind of weird if the Orcs start a rap battle with the Elves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyting

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Extreme anachronisms like the following destroy immersion

1. Ray guns in Might and Magic II
   
2. Cyborgs, robots, and space ships in Wizardry 8
   
3. The Space Shuttle in Ultima I

I liked the mix of scifi and fantasy in older RPGs. It required creativity that is sorely lacking now.
In Wizardry 8, it was largely explained by space travel to less technologically advanced planets, no?

 

[JarlFrank]

Extreme anachronisms like the following destroy immersion

1. Ray guns in Might and Magic II
   
2. Cyborgs, robots, and space ships in Wizardry 8
   
3. The Space Shuttle in Ultima I

No I fucking love the scifi-fantasy mashup setting of Wizardry 8 and sincerely wish for its return.

 

[samuraigaiden]

It doesn't count as an anachronism if it's coherent within the fictional setting.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Fantasy worlds usually have magic which highly impacts technological and societal development. Wizards can do a lot of interesting shit with their spells. Add to that all the potential discoveries that were possible throughout the ancient and medieval periods (that just didn't happen for one reason or another), and you can go wild.

This goes the other way too though. I'd argue that any society with magic will by default be less technologically advanced because anyone who is intelligent enough to invent something important is probably a wizard researching magic. The only way this is avoided in a setting is if knowing magic is inherently genetic or similar rare occurrence.
Only game I can really think of that thought about this was Arcanum.

 

[DraQ]

So you believe that wizards (actual kind, tossing fireballs and lightning bolts around), dragons, orcs, elves, undead, etc. are consistent with history.

A game should have some sort of internal logic and internal consistency.

And once you start throwing in fantastical elements, being historical increasingly becomes a piss poor guide for this consistency.

 

[Gregz]

Extreme anachronisms like the following destroy immersion

1. Ray guns in Might and Magic II
   
2. Cyborgs, robots, and space ships in Wizardry 8
   
3. The Space Shuttle in Ultima I

I liked the mix of scifi and fantasy in older RPGs. It required creativity that is sorely lacking now.
In Wizardry 8, it was largely explained by space travel to less technologically advanced planets, no?

It doesn't count as an anachronism if it's coherent within the fictional setting.

"long ago in a galaxy far far away" basically destroys the entire concept of this discussion.

 

[JarlFrank]

Fantasy worlds usually have magic which highly impacts technological and societal development. Wizards can do a lot of interesting shit with their spells. Add to that all the potential discoveries that were possible throughout the ancient and medieval periods (that just didn't happen for one reason or another), and you can go wild.

This goes the other way too though. I'd argue that any society with magic will by default be less technologically advanced because anyone who is intelligent enough to invent something important is probably a wizard researching magic. The only way this is avoided in a setting is if knowing magic is inherently genetic or similar rare occurrence.
Only game I can really think of that thought about this was Arcanum.

Yeah but then you get equivalent magical applications that mirror technological developments of our world. Arguably fireballs are the fantasy worlds' grenade launchers.

 

[DraQ]

Extreme anachronisms like the following destroy immersion

1. Ray guns in Might and Magic II
   
2. Cyborgs, robots, and space ships in Wizardry 8
   
3. The Space Shuttle in Ultima I

No I fucking love the scifi-fantasy mashup setting of Wizardry 8 and sincerely wish for its return.

I would say the later Wizardries and many earlier RPGs specifically aimed for this kind of pulpy feel.
It's definitely not my favourite kind of setting but it can work well enough.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Extreme anachronisms like the following destroy immersion

1. Ray guns in Might and Magic II
   
2. Cyborgs, robots, and space ships in Wizardry 8
   
3. The Space Shuttle in Ultima I

I liked the mix of scifi and fantasy in older RPGs. It required creativity that is sorely lacking now.
In Wizardry 8, it was largely explained by space travel to less technologically advanced planets, no?

It doesn't count as an anachronism if it's coherent within the fictional setting.

"long ago in a galaxy far far away" basically destroys the entire concept of this discussion.

Fantasy and sci-fi mixed together is like peanut butter and chocolate or meth and cocaine.

 

[Gregz]

Extreme anachronisms like the following destroy immersion

1. Ray guns in Might and Magic II
   
2. Cyborgs, robots, and space ships in Wizardry 8
   
3. The Space Shuttle in Ultima I

I liked the mix of scifi and fantasy in older RPGs. It required creativity that is sorely lacking now.
In Wizardry 8, it was largely explained by space travel to less technologically advanced planets, no?

It doesn't count as an anachronism if it's coherent within the fictional setting.

"long ago in a galaxy far far away" basically destroys the entire concept of this discussion.

Fantasy and sci-fi mixed together is like peanut butter and chocolate or meth and cocaine.

I can think of very few fictional universes in which magic and technology are mixed in equal parts successfully. Star Wars and Dune are the only ones that come to mind. Every other attempt ends up being gaudy, stupid, or redundant.

If "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", why have both? It's almost always a failed experiment; Dune and Star Wars excepted.

 

[JarlFrank]

 

[Nifft Batuff]

In CP2077 there are arcade machines in the bars.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

The Age of Decadence puts a Muslim minarets/names/culture into the center of Ancient Roman world. Also Mongols. And aliens (strangely I'm okay with this).

ATOM RPG is the one big time anomaly.

Pillars Of Eternity's mix of fantasy, guns and mechanisms doesn't make any sense. And let's not even start with Numenera...

 

[PompiPompi]

I have decided to add a helmet where you can have two modes for the visors if they are put down or retracted.

 

[Keyboard Vomit]

I can think of very few fictional universes in which magic and technology are mixed in equal parts successfully.

If you would read books instead of watching flicks you'd know better than that. Before the space age what is now perceived as two genres were one. Many like to namedrop Jack Vance because he was in the appendix N but more people need to read his books. Or take Gene Wolfe with his Book of the New Sun. The Pastel City by John Harrison. Not to mention that just about any early science fiction included fantastical elements. Even after Mars was discovered to be barren stories continued to be written about martian civilizations.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

In fallout there are ufos.

 

[Falksi]

 

[AdolfSatan]

I have decided to add a helmet where you can have two modes for the visors if they are put down or retracted.

It's not like you're an AAA company who has to stay conservative because you sell millions or go bankrupt, so do as much crazy shit as you want with your game. It would be way more attractive than a basic roguelike about a boy with a piss fetish tbh.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Extreme anachronisms like the following destroy immersion

1. Ray guns in Might and Magic II
   
2. Cyborgs, robots, and space ships in Wizardry 8
   
3. The Space Shuttle in Ultima I

I liked the mix of scifi and fantasy in older RPGs. It required creativity that is sorely lacking now.
In Wizardry 8, it was largely explained by space travel to less technologically advanced planets, no?

It doesn't count as an anachronism if it's coherent within the fictional setting.

"long ago in a galaxy far far away" basically destroys the entire concept of this discussion.

Fantasy and sci-fi mixed together is like peanut butter and chocolate or meth and cocaine.

I can think of very few fictional universes in which magic and technology are mixed in equal parts successfully. Star Wars and Dune are the only ones that come to mind. Every other attempt ends up being gaudy, stupid, or redundant.

If "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", why have both? It's almost always a failed experiment; Dune and Star Wars excepted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword_and_planet