Preview Another OMG!THIS GAEM IS SO AWSOME!!! Oblivion preview

[merry andrew]

We want to play games, and learning about statistics is about as much fun as, well, doing mathematics.

 

[Lemunde]

I can't help but picture the Mooninites talking every time I read these forums.

Mooninite 1: "Oh, we find your Oblivion's three dimensions cute. Fallout has five."
...
Mooninite 2: "...Thousand!"
Mooninite 1: "Five thousand."

 

[AZ]

Just sad.

Originally I liked consols, mindless gamers bought them and sayed away of pc-s. Now this is over.

 

[7th Circle]

Todd Howard, executive producer of The Elder Scrolls series, has said of Elder Scrolls IV that, "With Oblivion, we're taking the idea of a virtual fantasy world as far as it will go."

It makes perfect sense; you just have to consider the words in context.

• "taking" - To have sex with, esp. nonconsentual sex
  I walked to in to see Stalin Brando taking a Siam shemale over the kitchen bench.
  
• "idea" - a theoretical notion, not yet put into practice
  The very idea that there might be something more revolting than Tubgirl out there terrifies me.
  
• "virtual" - characterised by ugly use of polygons, limited interactivity, and utter disappointment (see virtual reality)
  Dactyl Nightmare brings a virtual fantasy world filled with dinosaurs to wretched unlife.
  
• "as far as it will go" - the degree of sex acts willing to be performed by the participant
  Anal was as far as (she) would go, which meant skullbuggery was out of the question.

So, now we correctly comprehend Todd's quote as "With Oblivion, we're raping the very theory behind a poorly realised fantasy world and subjecting it to as many perversions as it's willing to accept."

Now that's nextgen!

[edit] I know I shouldn't point out the obvious, but - "With Oblivion, we're taking the idea of a virtual fantasy world as far as it will go...and then nerfing everything across the board, because the combination of poor decisions with regard to production, and poorly optimised code means it won't actually run on the intended platform."

Very clever.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

We want to play games, and learning about statistics is about as much fun as, well, doing mathematics.

I didn't know gamers had to do mathematics in order to know that the higher a number the better the skill next to it is. It seems that 'messy numbers' joins up with 'messy reading' and they both take a prolonged vacation in the concentration camps of gamers' idiocy. How long until 'messy thinking' goes the same way?

 

[themadhatter114]

Statistics is nowhere near as fun as mathematics.

 

[JaheiraRocks]

We are just not that interested in spending time reading and learning all about bafflingly complex systems of character stats and suchlike. We want to play games, and learning about statistics is about as much fun as, well, doing mathematics.

Hmmm... Math never was my favorite subject at school, and pretty much the only reason I didn't fail at math the last year was because my teacher was just too nice, and the statistcs stuff just made my head spin. Yet, I have no problems with the things (that used to be?) found in your typical CRPG. At the most, you add some numbers together. You don't have to be freakin' Einstein to do that. Heck, you don't even have to be human.

 

[Levski 1912]

Apparently, one needed a thourough knowledge of linear algebra to play Fallout, and years of experience in calculus to even touch the Planescape box.

 

[Temoid]

I'm a math moron too, one who almost didn't graduate because of a possibility of failing math. I think that crunching D&D numbers is fun.

 

[LlamaGod]

RPG Math is really hard like "15 + 2 = 17, which is less than 20. I needed more than 20 to break the door."

Do they all think we are Math Wizards or something??? Thank god for Oblivion, I wouldn't want to feel like I was still in school and falling Algebra 1 all over again.

 

[Goliath]

RPG Math is really hard like "15 + 2 = 17, which is less than 20. I needed more than 20 to break the door."

Try:

Sword of Uberpowning (2d6 Damage, x3 against Daemon, slashing/pierching)
vs. Megaphallus Mace (4d5, crushing)
vs.
Daemonic Skeleton King of Black Darkness (40% damage resistance against slashing and pierching attacks)

Which weapon does more damage? Quick. Damn it took you more than a second already.
I guess that is what he is talking about.
Many older RPGs had quite complex combat mechanics. I actually like those but it should not be surprising that they are a total turn off to the average Joe Sixpack or Joe "I do not have public hair yet". Remember that a large part of the gamer market is between 10 and 14 years old. Many of those kids probably do not even know how to do percentage based calculations.

 

[LlamaGod]

Mega Phallus Mace, eh

and for that sword, is it either/or on attack or boaf

 

[Rendelius]

About "not needing maths":

Accept it, times have changed. When we played CRPGs back in the late eighties, the general conception of "playing games" was different, as was the music, the movies. Look at video clips from that time: scenes were 3-4 times longer than they are now. I don't talk about technical quality here, but about our viewing habits served by the flicks back then.

Nowadays, the general attention span is much shorter than it was. Youngsters have no problem at all to understand stories told in cuts that are shorter than half a second. The same is true for advertising, the same us true for books, movies - and of course for games.

The audience willing to dig deep into manuals isn't as beig as it was back then. Gaming companies have to accept that, and if they want to survive, they have to adapt. Bethesda is already taking a step out of the ordinary with having a game that will take you 200+ hours to completely finish.

But this posting isn't about Bethesda, it's about the reviewer. Yes, he mightn't have a clue, but he is pretty representative for the gamers out there. No use in ridiculing him, that's just the way it is. Be gentle, people like us are becoming an outdated minority, and we arn't the target group for gaming companies anymore, at least not for the mainstream ones...

 

[Zeb]

We had Generation X, then we had Genereation Y, now we have Generation ADD.

 

[Rendelius]

We had Generation X, then we had Genereation Y, now we have Generation ADD.

About that, yes

 

[Section8]

Accept it, times have changed. When we played CRPGs back in the late eighties, the general conception of "playing games" was different, as was the music, the movies. Look at video clips from that time: scenes were 3-4 times longer than they are now. I don't talk about technical quality here, but about our viewing habits served by the flicks back then.

Nowadays, the general attention span is much shorter than it was. Youngsters have no problem at all to understand stories told in cuts that are shorter than half a second. The same is true for advertising, the same us true for books, movies - and of course for games.

The audience willing to dig deep into manuals isn't as beig as it was back then. Gaming companies have to accept that, and if they want to survive, they have to adapt. Bethesda is already taking a step out of the ordinary with having a game that will take you 200+ hours to completely finish.

But this posting isn't about Bethesda, it's about the reviewer. Yes, he mightn't have a clue, but he is pretty representative for the gamers out there. No use in ridiculing him, that's just the way it is. Be gentle, people like us are becoming an outdated minority, and we arn't the target group for gaming companies anymore, at least not for the mainstream ones...

Interesting post, but it's still a question of the chicken or the egg. People are adaptable too, so an argument could be made that more complex games/movies/books could be made, and people have to deal with it.

The problem is, somebody along the line figured out the whole "lowest common denominator" theory, which appears to change everyone for the worse, in the name of reaching a wider audience. Times may be changing, but if the argument is made that changes are for the worse, then isn't it in our best interests to oppose those changes? Fuck "accept it" for a joke.

As for...

Bethesda is already taking a step out of the ordinary with having a game that will take you 200+ hours to completely finish.

That's horseshit. Games can't be judged by how long it takes to "completely finish," they can only be judged by how long they provide entertainment.

And I don't know if it really is a step out of the ordinary. When you think of comparitive games, Oblivion's closest peers are MMOGs. The similarities are tremendous. And yet, of all the games that are similar, Oblivion's 200+ hours is pretty fucking insignificant.

 

[Solik]

Everyone knows that if an idiot likes something, then it must suck.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

I am not so sure, Rendelius, there are games out there that are pretty complicated, yet widely successful take Civ IV, thats a hard game to really juggle all your options correctly even on intermediate difficulties. Likewise that reviewer that compared it to the options in racing games had a point too - it's been a while, bu I remember being completely clueless as to what the tuning options did, and that there were a ton of them - a very complex mechanic.
Sports management games are popular too, I take it, and those are pretty stats heavy games AFAIK.

Therefore I doubt the need to reduce complexity is as big as some make it out to be. Especially in a case where you can hide complexity so well, as in a CRPG, where most of it cna be behind the scenes.

 

[Solik]

Galsiah's been arguing up and down that stats and so forth should be behind the scenes in TES games. No one (except me) disputed his point.

A previewer comes out and states that stats and so forth are largely behind the scenes in Oblivion. A shitstorm erupts.

I love this place.

 

[Oarfish]

Therefore I doubt the need to reduce complexity is as big as some make it out to be.

Agreed, heavy use of stats seems to be considered ok in sports games but RPG developers are shying away from them. Games with orcs and dragons in them are nerdy by default.

 

[Micmu]

Everyone knows that if an idiot likes something, then it must suck.

Pretty much everybody was addressing the reviewer, not the game itself.

 

[LlamaGod]

No use in ridiculing him, that's just the way it is. Be gentle, people like us are becoming an outdated minority, and we arn't the target group for gaming companies anymore, at least not for the mainstream ones...

That's a perfectly good reason to ridicule him.

 

[bryce777]

I am not so sure, Rendelius, there are games out there that are pretty complicated, yet widely successful take Civ IV, thats a hard game to really juggle all your options correctly even on intermediate difficulties. Likewise that reviewer that compared it to the options in racing games had a point too - it's been a while, bu I remember being completely clueless as to what the tuning options did, and that there were a ton of them - a very complex mechanic.
Sports management games are popular too, I take it, and those are pretty stats heavy games AFAIK.

Therefore I doubt the need to reduce complexity is as big as some make it out to be. Especially in a case where you can hide complexity so well, as in a CRPG, where most of it cna be behind the scenes.

Civ IV is needlessly complicated, too...it doesn't benefit from much of it.

There are and have always been different market segments. Strategy and RPG segments have always been much different from the arcade segment. The problem is that publishers are completely out of touch with these segments. They lump together all platforms into the same general 'video games' label. As if you can compare a game from the civ series to the command and conquer series or a game like oblivion to the later ultimas.

 

[Rendelius]

No use in ridiculing him, that's just the way it is. Be gentle, people like us are becoming an outdated minority, and we arn't the target group for gaming companies anymore, at least not for the mainstream ones...

That's a perfectly good reason to ridicule him.

Only if that's an important source for your self-esteem *g*

 

[Pr()ZaC]

About "not needing maths":

Accept it, times have changed. When we played CRPGs back in the late eighties, the general conception of "playing games" was different, as was the music, the movies. Look at video clips from that time: scenes were 3-4 times longer than they are now. I don't talk about technical quality here, but about our viewing habits served by the flicks back then.

I find this-gen (good) movies and clips much better than the trashy '80s!

Nowadays, the general attention span is much shorter than it was. Youngsters have no problem at all to understand stories told in cuts that are shorter than half a second. The same is true for advertising, the same us true for books, movies - and of course for games.

Not really. Take HARRY POTTER for example. The next volume could be 1500 pages and kids would still read it and probably like it.
I find youngsters much more into "deeper movies" than the ones my generation ('77) saw.

The audience willing to dig deep into manuals isn't as beig as it was back then. Gaming companies have to accept that, and if they want to survive, they have to adapt. Bethesda is already taking a step out of the ordinary with having a game that will take you 200+ hours to completely finish.

true.dat but in most of games today you have tutorials and onscreen popup help and not huge manuals (which I LOVE) like in the old days. GTA:SA is also a game that it'll take a while to explore and finish.
Bethesda is just making a "Morrowind Remix", adding graphics, physics, streamlining, Patrick Stewart, soil erosion, magical compasses and HOPEFULLY making quests a little less boring (on big plus) and much less FED EX-like than the ones from the previous title.
I bet you'll see the same "wow" factor if you look at the Morrowind previews.