Another PC exclusive developer turns to consoles.

[Damned Registrations]

I'd love to see where exactly all this money the gaming industry is losing to piracy would supposedly come from if it suddenly became impossible. Maybe everyone will stop going to see movies or buying music or clothing so they can quintuple their video gaming budget?

 

[Xi]

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but there are both many ways to fool Steam as well as somewhat regularily updated rips of many Steam exclusive games.

I think that the actual success of Steam has other causes:

1. It's a convenient and pretty hassle free way to buy and play games.
2. It carries Valve's games, which many people equal with quality. I'd say Blizzard and Valve are the two big constants of PC gaming.
3. Most games are competetively priced.

I do agree that we'd see less piracy if services like Steam were more common though, but not because of any eventual DRM, more because it's a sound business model that appeals to the consumer. Compared to poorly supported supported services like Direct 2 Drive it's haeven really.

But in the beginning piracy of valve games via steam was extremely low, and still is lower than games not using steam. Nuff said.

In after categorical imperative.
Hey, Xi, the Orange Box was cracked pretty much straight after its release, and the pirated version didn't even require installing steam with all its shenanigans.

Certainly it did, but not in the beginning where, impulse is high, and it has been shown that the difficulty in dealing with DRM from steam boosted its sales. More evidence of this is that Steam allows it's PC counter part to outsell console versions of the same game. So, my point is that good DRM does have an impact, regardless of whether it has been cracked now, or not, is beside the point. It worked for release and piracy wasn't rampant for the game then, boosting sales rather dramatically(According to valve). Once again, PC orange box outsold console orange box(combined), nuff said. DRM works, and once again the Casual game study shows that DRM boosts sales, even if only by a small amount.

There are several studies that have shown that big filesharers are big media consumers in general. That is, they pay for a lot of stuff.

Piracy doesn't cost anything, so people still have their money left. They still spend their money. Who woulda thought?

Bullshit, provide one if there are "several" studies. These people spend their money on other things, not the shit they download, who'd have thought?

Xi, you can always point at a single game say it has srtong DRM and sold well and point at another game without DRM which sold badly and say:"Ha, told you so, you filthy pirates."
Not only do you ignore all other factors (which you even mentioned) you also ignore all examples that do not support your point. And as you have seen with your Valve example you example might not even support your point as strongly as you believed.
After installing the HL2 demo and having trouble with un-installing Steam which I hadn't heard of before I can tell you that I will never purchase anything that has Steam or similar programs.

I don't believe piracy is the only problem, not going to disagree with you on that. My point was that using a system like Steam to handle DRM is very effective and actually boosts sales because more of the pirates bite the bullet and purchase instead. Some of this may be do to the added service of steam, but undeniably it is increasing sales. If anything you could argue that people like the steam, service. Arguing that people do not like steam because it sucks does not prove anything for the piracy side because sales of valve games(and other vendors using valve) are high. Your point is moot.

Besides, the Impulse system is coming out soon and is much like steam. It offers service and online activation. This is coming from stardock too. They've had moderate success without DRM, what they are trying to do now, is convert potential losses in sales(pirates) to customers by making a system that is both appealing and more difficult to pirate.

 

[Xi]

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Life_2

When sales figures were last announced, over four million copies of Half-Life 2 had been sold.

Just the initial game, and we're to believe that Steam had nothing to do with this? Fuck that...(This doesn't include console sales) Steam alone is responsible for 750K-1M digital download sales.

Edit: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/t ... ependents-

Q: How much is piracy a concern for Valve?

Doug Lombardi: Well, Steam allows us to eliminate "Day Zero" piracy - which is between gold and when the game's on the store shelves - and that's when all the real piracy, the damaging piracy happens.

Gamers are generally good people, right? They're pretty intelligent, you know, they usually have a job. They're not derelicts out on the street, looting and robbing all of the time. But when they've been hyped up on a project and they really want to play this game and they can't wait to play it...Maybe they bought a new computer or console just to play it, and it shows up on a torrent site and it's not at the store...Temptation's going to come into play.

But with Steam you can't, right? We tell you to pre-load the game, regardless of where you're going to buy it. Download it now so you're ready to play it the day it comes out. The disc that we send out is useless until we turn it on on launch day. So we don't have the problem of sending the disc to replication and having some punk grab it and put it on a bit torrent site and take the sales away from us.

We saw that in 2004 when we released Half-Life 2. Doom 3, Halo 2 and whichever version of GTA came out that year were all available on the pirate network before they came out at stores. The final version of the games. Half-Life 2 wasn't. The only difference was that Half-Life 2 had Steam anti-piracy stuff in place.

 

[vrok]

Do you really think one of the worlds most anticipated shooters (thanks to the original and its mods, never mind even being in the FPS genre AND having multiplayer) could never sell 4 times more than The Witcher (first RPG from an unknown eastern european developer with no multiplayer) did in a few months while keeping in mind that both games were available within a day of release, cracked? Fuck that.

Short version: Drop the LSD.

PS. I specifically refused to buy HL2 because of Steam and I still don't own a single Steam-powered game. However, with Valve apparently being interested in porting Steam/Source to Linux that may change.

 

[Xi]

Do you really think one of the worlds most anticipated shooters (thanks to the original and its mods, never mind even being in the FPS genre AND having multiplayer) could never sell 4 times more than The Witcher (first RPG from an unknown eastern european developer with no multiplayer) did in a few months while keeping in mind that both games were available within a day of release, cracked? Fuck that.

Short version: Drop the LSD.

PS. I specifically refused to buy HL2 because of Steam and I still don't own a single Steam-powered game. However, with Valve apparently being interested in porting Steam/Source to Linux that may change.

Making things up again eh?

We saw that in 2004 when we released Half-Life 2. Doom 3, Halo 2 and whichever version of GTA came out that year were all available on the pirate network before they came out at stores. The final version of the games. Half-Life 2 wasn't. The only difference was that Half-Life 2 had Steam anti-piracy stuff in place.

The real point is that people who would have pirated the game, and never purchased, did purchase because they wanted to play it so badly. Certainly having an anticipated game like Half-Life helps, but DRM actually made a difference here, and unlike was reported earlier in this thread, pirates apparantly do not later purchase what they pirate.(Or at least the ones who do are minimal as to not matter)

 

[Kraszu]

But in the beginning piracy of valve games via steam was extremely low,and still is lower than games not using steam. Nuff said.

And why would that happen? Definitly not becouse of protection that doesn't work.

Once again, PC orange box outsold console orange box(combined), nuff said. DRM works, and once again the Casual game study shows that DRM boosts sales, even if only by a small amount.

What about Half-life 8 millions copies sold whithout steam. HL2 was expected to sold great on PC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_be ... s_by_genre

Orange box was first (slightly but still) on PC and it had low system requirements,most people prefer to play FPS on PC, and it costed less. Just look at Crysis how low it started, most likely becouse of hardware (what other reasons?) it sold 1mln by now and it looked very bad at start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Box

Release date Windows and Xbox 360
NA October 10, 2007[1][2]
EU October 18, 2007[3]
UK October 19, 2007[3]
AUS October 25, 2007[4]
Windows (download)
October 9, 2007[5]
PlayStation 3 (retail)
NA December 11, 2007[6]

because sales of valve games(and other vendors using valve) are high.

They are?

 

[Xi]

They are?

Uhm, for a PC title yes. It reliably sells more than a million units per release. This number is much higher than the common PC release. 4-5x in some cases.

Compare valve sales to a recent high selling game like sins of a solar Empire:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/864/864651p1.html

First, let's go over the numbers. According to Wardell, Sins of a Solar Empire has sold more than 200,000 copies at both retail and through its online distribution system since launch.

 

[Kraszu]

They are?

Uhm, for a PC title yes. It reliably sells more than a million units per release. This number is much higher than the common PC release. 4-5x in some cases.

I meant links.

 

[vrok]

Making things up again eh?

We saw that in 2004 when we released Half-Life 2. Doom 3, Halo 2 and whichever version of GTA came out that year were all available on the pirate network before they came out at stores. The final version of the games. Half-Life 2 wasn't. The only difference was that Half-Life 2 had Steam anti-piracy stuff in place.

I said within a day of release for a reason. 16th was the official release date for HL2. I present to you the actual release dates for cracked versions. First try even happened on the same day it was available from Steam.

2004-11-20 PC Game ISOs Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *PROPER* *STEAMRIP* *DVD* EMPORIO 32x50 MB 5733137 homemade.iso
2004-11-17 PC Game Dox Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *ONLINE PLAY METHOD* IND 01x05 MB 1285609
2004-11-17 PC Game Dox Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *EMPORiO FIX* *REPACK* APE 01x05 MB 1434919 fix.for.nuke
2004-11-17 PC Game Dox Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *OFFLINE ACTIVATION PATCH* OWNAGE 01x05 MB 2796862
2004-11-17 PC Game Dox Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *EMPORiO FIX* APE 01x05 MB 1978813 fix.for.nuke
2004-11-16 PC Game ISOs Half Life 2 (c) Valve *READNFO* EMPORIO 85x50 MB 6417564 homemade.iso

 

[Xi]

They are?

Uhm, for a PC title yes. It reliably sells more than a million units per release. This number is much higher than the common PC release. 4-5x in some cases.

I meant links.

Find them yourself, I'm tired of repeating the same shit over and over.

 

[Kraszu]

They are?

Uhm, for a PC title yes. It reliably sells more than a million units per release. This number is much higher than the common PC release. 4-5x in some cases.

Compare valve sales to a recent high selling game like sins of a solar Empire:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/864/864651p1.html

First, let's go over the numbers. According to Wardell, Sins of a Solar Empire has sold more than 200,000 copies at both retail and through its online distribution system since launch.

To compare I would need information on both not on one. Beside Steam is global and games like Sins of Solar Empire sell good in Europe.

 

[Kraszu]

They are?

Uhm, for a PC title yes. It reliably sells more than a million units per release. This number is much higher than the common PC release. 4-5x in some cases.

I meant links.

Find them yourself, I'm tired of repeating the same shit over and over.

LOL you made some stuff up, and tell me to find evidence for it.

 

[Xi]

2004-11-20 PC Game ISOs Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *PROPER* *STEAMRIP* *DVD* EMPORIO 32x50 MB 5733137 homemade.iso
2004-11-17 PC Game Dox Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *ONLINE PLAY METHOD* IND 01x05 MB 1285609
2004-11-17 PC Game Dox Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *EMPORiO FIX* *REPACK* APE 01x05 MB 1434919 fix.for.nuke
2004-11-17 PC Game Dox Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *OFFLINE ACTIVATION PATCH* OWNAGE 01x05 MB 2796862
2004-11-17 PC Game Dox Half-Life 2 (c) Valve *EMPORiO FIX* APE 01x05 MB 1978813 fix.for.nuke
2004-11-16 PC Game ISOs Half Life 2 (c) Valve *READNFO* EMPORIO 85x50 MB 6417564 homemade.iso

You could download an ISO that wouldn't work on steam? Amazing...

http://halflife2.filefront.com/news/Hal ... Info;13907

Hey HL2 Gamers!

Recently, one of the HL2Files.com members here, alerted me of a pirated warez version of Half-Life 2, apparently released via the Bittorent network. I immediately, forwarded this to Gabe Newell of VALVe Software. [The great man, we should all be thanking for Half-Life 2 big grin ].

A couple of hours later, Gabe replied with the following:

Quote:We're running a bit of an experiment. We're keeping track of the accounts that do this and will be shutting them off.


So, as you can see, VALVe Software have released a test "warez" version aimed at catching people out. These people will have their accounts deleted and will be banned from Steam.

Therefore, I strongly suggest that you DO NOT participate in these illegal activities as it would only lead to your own harm.

VALVe Software spent over $40 Million to develop Half-Life 2. Show them you appreciate their work. Buy the game! smile

As the saying goes: BURN YOU WAREZ MONKEYS! LoL!

Spread the word!

Happy Gaming,
~azzkiker
azzkiker@hl2files.com
HL2Files.com Site Admin

Later on 20,000 accounts were suspended and then I believe another 30,000. Who knows how many at this point. Certainly people have gotten around the steam activation by now, but valve did a lot to control piracy during initial release.

 

[Kraszu]

More like you could download ISO that did not require steam to work.

 

[Xi]

More like you could download ISO that did not require steam to work.

You also had to run a fake steam server. So maybe that removes the whole "I'm pirating because I hate anti-piracy measures and extra bullshit running on my computer" theories. Anyway, it wasn't an easy game to pirate, causing many more purchases for sure.

 

[vrok]

blah

Sigh. You still refuse to believe. I personally used that release and there was no usage of Steam or a Steam account at all, which is why I used it in the first place. Whatever test version they released had nothing to do with the releases I posted. At all.

And of course it wouldn't fucking work in MP on Steam right away. The only way this happens is when the servers start getting cracked to ignore Steam which is exactly what happens to traditionally protected games with cd keys too (read: every other MP game since what? 10 years ago?). It still takes at least a few days for this to happen with just the cd key protection at first for a game not even Steam related, and patches are always a mess to deal with. Nothing to do with Steam. Get it?

Even for stuff that does require a Steam account to exploit you will always use a blank account (and preferably another IP) for it if you happen to already have a Steam account of worth, which is unlikely.

 

[DefJam101]

Steam has actually turned out to be a fairly nice utility. It was a disaster at launch..

I've grown to like it, the heaps of old classics are also a nice touch, and their support for "indy" companies (DefCon, for instance) is worthy of praise.

 

[Xi]

Edit:

LOL you made some stuff up, and tell me to find evidence for it.

Didn't make numbers up. Look earlier in this thread and you will find some numbers. I'm just tired of chasing the facts for you. You're using the typical debate and it fails on so many levels. Just trying to raise some awareness, but it doesn't seem to be working, so why should I care what you think at this point?

I wasn't blaming the PC game sales stagnancy on piracy alone, what I am saying is that it does account for a loss. I believe this loss to be more than you, however, as you believe it to be so insignificant that you gaily download games thinking the industry can stay alive without your own contribution.

You also disregard the possibility that a developer who makes a game you don't like, and pirate instead, won't someday make a fantastic game but instead crash and burn to a single game that could have been better but lacked sales to sustain the studio. How does having fewer developers ensure more quality anyway? I think this was the point Brennus was making earlier in the thread. You're just being moronic about it though. /shrug

Sigh. You still refuse to believe. I personally used that release and there was no usage of Steam or a Steam account at all, which is why I used it in the first place. Whatever test version they released had nothing to do with the releases I posted. At all.

Yes I refuse to believe your fake factless fanaticism. Praise your Zeus and prepare for an after life in Olympus my friend! It's real!

Edit: If I said that I had friends who tried to pirate HL2 but gave up because it was too difficult, it would be just as relevant as what you're saying and just as proof-less.

 

[vrok]

Go ahead. I already corrected your ass once despite you using the same "trusted" biased source that only mentioned suitable games with early cracked releases. Many more games didn't get cracked prior to release in 2004.

Though the correction was based on your inability and not that of the source it was really splitting hairs in the first place, which then happened to escalate in to this "I DUN BELIV IN PIRUTS LALALA".

 

[Kraszu]

Edit:

LOL you made some stuff up, and tell me to find evidence for it.

Didn't make numbers up. Look earlier in this thread and you will find some numbers. I'm just tired of chasing the facts for you. You're using the typical debate and it fails on so many levels. Just trying to raise some awareness, but it doesn't seem to be working, so why should I care what you think at this point?

You never give any facts you just made some stuff and claim that HL2 good sales prove that steam works despite that HL1 sold 8mln copies whithout it.

I believe this loss to be more than you, however, as you believe it to be so insignificant that you gaily download games thinking the industry can stay alive without your own contribution.

I also buy, but you know better on what I do.

You also disregard the possibility that a developer who makes a game you don't like, and pirate instead, won't someday make a fantastic game but instead crash and burn to a single game that could have been better but lacked sales to sustain the studio.

If x sold I expect more of x not y. If you want to help so much then rather buy 2 copies of game that you like then game that you don't care about.

How does having fewer developers ensure more quality anyway? I think this was the point Brennus was making earlier in the thread. You're just being moronic about it though. /shrug

Supporting what you like leads to more product that you like, supporting products that you don't like leads to more products like that. It can even be damaging as publisher will finance game that will make more $ for him.

Sigh. You still refuse to believe. I personally used that release and there was no usage of Steam or a Steam account at all, which is why I used it in the first place. Whatever test version they released had nothing to do with the releases I posted. At all.

Yes I refuse to believe your fake factless fanaticism. Praise your Zeus and prepare for an after life in Olympus my friend! It's real!

You don't have to be tech savy to understand that easiest way to crack steam is to download everything that steam sends and block steam, and that is how it was done and alweys will be to not have problems whit steam. And it was done pretty fast.

Valve realised fake cracked version that proves that they game is uncrackable? Little annoyance (they had to dll proper version) for less then 1% pirates that explains everything.

Edit: If I said that I had friends who tried to pirate HL2 but gave up because it was too difficult, it would be just as relevant as what you're saying and just as proof-less.

Sure that is as relevant as information for biggest warez sites.

 

[Zeus]

Yes I refuse to believe your fake factless fanaticism. Praise your Zeus and prepare for an after life in Olympus my friend! It's real!

Wait, did someone just say my name? :D

Choppy framerates I can deal with. I played Quake on a 486 DX/33.

Did you kill Shambler's with an axe too? That's what I used to do. It ran so God-damned slow that I could run up and axe them, then jump back before their close-quarters attack got me.

Haha, yeah! Quake on a 486 DX/33 was bullet time before bullet time was cool.

Incidentally, it was also my first experience in a true 3D environment. I'd already played some PSX, but Battle Arena Toshenden, Loaded and Resident Evil all had fixed perspectives. Quake was the first game that let me crane my neck for a better look, or just wander around, "smelling the flowers." Granted, they were rusty, decrepit, Eldritch flowers, but I smelled 'em anyway. To this day, I can't stand 3D games without m-look.

But GTA IV for your Xbox and the only question you have to answer is "Do I have an Xbox?". Buy GTA IV for the PC (when it comes out) and you'll be wondering if you have the right graphics card, enough RAM or a fast enough processor.

Not to mention it's also a factor when trying to assemble a computer. Yeah, it's cheaper, but trying to make sure all the random parts will get along can be daunting, especially with crummy industry practices like naming a slightly upgraded GeForce 2 "GeForce 4 MX" when it's actually much, much worse than your standard GeForce 4. Talk about false advertising.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I wonder if

Edit:

LOL you made some stuff up, and tell me to find evidence for it.

Didn't make numbers up. Look earlier in this thread and you will find some numbers. I'm just tired of chasing the facts for you. You're using the typical debate and it fails on so many levels. Just trying to raise some awareness, but it doesn't seem to be working, so why should I care what you think at this point?

You never give any facts you just made some stuff and claim that HL2 good sales prove that steam works despite that HL1 sold 8mln copies whithout it.

I believe this loss to be more than you, however, as you believe it to be so insignificant that you gaily download games thinking the industry can stay alive without your own contribution.

I wonder if the copy protection would be so annoying if the companies simply (a) recognised the hassle they are placing onto legit buyers and hence (b) gave extra services or quality to make up for it.

Take Steam, since that's already been mentioned. I hate pretty much any copy protection that goes online, and I really really hate it when they force you to go online for x length of time before playing a single player offline game - even though yes I have ADSL so it isn't a problem for me personally but just an issue of principle. However, I don't batt an eyelid at playing and buying stuff over Steam. You know why?

Because I'm a mindless Valve fanbo....Sorry, mind attention slipped for a second. No it is because Steam offers more than just a way to make my life inconvenient. My main problem with copy protection is that if I am buying the thing, limits on my ability to back it up, play it, or anally probe myself with it all DECREASE the property that I am buying. As someone else said, it is like paying the purchase price only to find out you're renting instead. So for me there is a pretty simply solution - the seller is taking some property out of the deal, they can even things by putting property back in. I'm fine with STEAM - it means I don't own the full rights to the games I buy, but it also gives me several services I actually do want: (a) a way to discover and buy games from small developers (Darwinia, Psychonauts anyone?) cheaply and without giving a dime to publishers I hate, (b) an online game matching servce, (c) offline storage from games (so far I've transferred my steam games to 3 comps simply by activating my account on each - there's probably a limit to this, but it goes some small way to giving the property back that they're taking at the other end, and (d) periodic 'free weekends' and 'free week' demos of various games, some of which have been fun enough that they become my most played fps for a while (the Ship, Red Orchestra).

I don't think that puts Steam AHEAD of a traditional sale - frankly the bastards took a pretty big chunk of property rights out of the buyer's end of the deal, but I think it just scrapes in to add enough back in to make the deal a decent one again. At least when you add in the fact that so far I've felt the money I've given to Valve has funded games I've enjoyed thoroughly. I don't want to debate whether these games are 'objectively' good or not, but as an individual I utterly loved HL1, HL2, the episodes, Opposing Force, CS, CS:Source, with Portal being my favourite (I put Portal as a puzzle-shooter alongside stuff like PS:T and FO for RPGs - i.e. once you've made that game you can sell jpgs of your turds for the rest of your development career and you're still a legend. Hell that's better than what Warren Spector's been producing since D-Ex.)

So how about you guys? Would you still feel so annoyed if sellers fessed up that they are taking important property rights out of the deal, and then threw in sweetners to make up for it? Maybe if you bought the copy-protected version you'd get a minor piece of hardware from a selection for free? Something small, like a memory stick, or a flash drive, a good mouse, even a mousepad if it's a cheap game. Gaming companies could almost certainly do a deal with hardware companies to get those items cheaply (they'd be promoting the hardware company - which sponsor them anywaay), you couldn't get the freebe by pirating, and we'd at least feel like our concerns were acknowledged.

 

[Shannow]

I couldn't start TGH because it found my virtual drive

I had the same problem, but whit my orginal Gothic 2,turning them off solved the problem. I had to look for solution on google since there was no message through.

I had that with G2 too, but G2 was an original. I had to un-install Nero and turn daemon tools off. That got on my nerves but G2 was worth it.
I wanted to mount TGH on daemon, so turning it off was not option
I would have had to burn it on cd/dvd and it just wasn't worth the 50 Cent. (Reading this, Xi?)

And Xi, you are still trying to prove a point on one example and ignoring all the factors that influence sales in that example.
Did Steam prevent many pirates from playing HL2? Definately.
Did some of these pirates then buy an original? Definately.
Can you say how many? No.
Did Steam put some people off? Yes.
Is Steam attractive for some people? Yes.
Was HL2 a very anticipated title? Holy, fucking shit, yes!
No you have lots of unquantifiable factors and you just pretend that Steam was mainly responsible for good sales.
Since you like "proving" your point with examples: It took long for a working crack for Titan Quest and still they had to close their doors...And still blamed it on pirates
Kraszu already put you straight on the "you pirates don't buy games" and "you should buy crappy games".

 

[Shannow]

Azrael, I can think of lots of ways to decrease piracy and increase sales besides intrusive DRM.
CDproject with their Enhaced TW edition would be my prime example. Great value in the boxed game and additional content for registered game owners. The additional content may appear on torrent sites but I think people appreciate the mind set behind the decisions. That way CDproject build a loyal fan-base, which is less likely to torrent their games.

All the positve sides of Steam without constant checking. Check for online gaming and for updates but otherwise let the games be playable offline. (At least that is what would be needed for me to consider Steam).

Offer good online gameplay with the need to register + check cd keys.

If you use strong DRM, make sure that the pirate knows that the game doesn't work because he pirated it and not because of bugs/system requirements.

Make games for normal systems, not for futuristic high-end PCs.
Improve stuff apart from graphics.
Invest time in quality assurance. Buggy games may be common but consumers still don't appreciate it.

And I'm repeating myself but don't invest millions of dollars and expect a high profit. Those are the exeptions, not the rule.
If you make an mmo, make it completely different from WoW.

 

[Suchy]

Find me a single game that hasn't been cracked. No matter what is the DRM system, games were and will get cracked.
A significant share of fault behind piracy is on the distributor's side. Terrible localisations, local release delays. What a casual gamer waiting for Halo 23 would do when the game hits the shelves in the US and it's supposed to show up in his country a month later? After a few days from the initial release it's available on torrents, rapidshare forums... The kid was waiting for that game for a year, so what does he do? He torrents. And eventually buys the original later (but most won't care).

Games should be available to download legally the day they are released. Cheaper than in stores, as there are no costs of the box, discs, manual nor other extras. And no intrusive DRM, no phoning home, this puts many people off (steam).