AoD music

[Twinfalls]

The second artist's set is certainly more ambitious, grandiose - but ends up a little too melodramatic. His first piece initially impresses but the high registers then start to grate as they meander about without real focus.

I was initially more 'wowed' by the second artist, but ended preferring the first, being more restrained and better on repeat listens, keeping in mind there's a game to play in the foreground.

Perhaps the second artist is more suited to cutscenes or set-pieces, whatever shape these might be in the game. On what's here however, the first is your better bet for a general set of background tunes.

 

[Zomg]

I have a tin ear, so no recommendations on one or the other. Just make sure whoever you get has a good ear for the difference between foreground and background music. You might also want to think about getting away from background music altogether. Just use FO-style ambient noises and save foreground music for those nice art splash screens you've shown. I find the "town music" cliche very irritating.

 

[galsiah]

I like them all, but I'd say the second pair work better in putting over the mood you want - the first two sound a little happy (and I get a Braveheart-meets-Morrowind impression for some reason).

Perhaps the first pair give a clearer "small refuge town" idea, but they don't say anything about conflict / strife / impending doom... to me. The second pair could fit other settings - e.g. steampunk -, but I don't think they'd be out of place in the situation you describe. They certainly have a much stronger emotive feel.

It's difficult to compare them well though. The first pair are more polished (particularly compared to the 4th), but they don't really go anywhere - presumably they could, given time. I actually like the 4th one a lot - including the vocals. Perhaps that makes me tacky, but there you go.
I think the 4th would need significant work though - the balance seems odd at times (I think I'm also put off when the initial voice line [24->46secs] doesn't repeat once straight away - that just seems wrong somehow).

I agree that the first pair is probably the safest bet. They sound polished and professional. I prefer the second pair, but the player is probably going to notice the music more this way - for good and bad.

The first two could easily be Morrowind music. The music in Morrowind blended extremely well, but after playing the game for days, I couldn't tell you whether it had two (non-combat) tracks or twenty. I think I generally prefer it when the music grabs my attention a little more - at least on the first few occasions I hear it.
So long as the looping is subtle and fades in/out well, I think the second pair will blend in well after a while. They'll just be more noticable when they're first heard. I think I'd like that, but perhaps you'd rather have things blend in more completely(?).

 

[Jora]

The first song is my least favorite. It's way too ordinary fantasy game music that doesn't carry any kind of post-apocalyptic associations. It would be fine for a game like Baldur's Gate or TToEE that is trying to achieve a medieval countryside feel.

I like the second song more. It's very melancholy and reminds me of Arcanum and Fallout in a positive way. It fits the feel of a hopeless, decadent culture MUCH netter. This is my favorite.

I also like the third and fourth songs for similar reasons. #4 is my favourite of the two even if it gets a bit lighthearted towards the end.

 

[HanoverF]

I was initially more 'wowed' by the second artist, but ended preferring the first, being more restrained and better on repeat listens, keeping in mind there's a game to play in the foreground.

I don't hear that, #1's #2 sounds like a muddled cacophony to me

 

[Slylandro]

Personally I thought the first was the overall best but it’s hard to tell since the first song was too short to judge. Still, I enjoyed the first song's quiet, pensive, half-resigned tone that seems appropriate for a small town that’s preparing itself for the worst. The second song of the first artist just seemed too bland and unfocused to me.

The voice in the fourth song (2nd song of 2nd artist) definitely has to be toned down a bit and although the music is impressive, it’s too distracting to be good background music for a town. #4 is like the talented but out-of-place kid in the choir who stands out too much from the crowd, drawing everyone’s attention. Maybe the 4th song can find a place in the game-- a friend of mine overhearing the music commented that the 4th piece sounds like it would be appropriate in say a cathedral. If you have any ruined cathedrals or other post-apocalyptic religious buildings in your game, maybe it would fit in there. But like most of the others I’m no music critic, so take my words with a grain of salt.

 

[Balor]

I'll yet to hear it, yet... is there any way to hire Mark Morgan? This guy made awesomesiest (no less) job on P:T music, from character themes to combat music.
If it's not really possible (I guess), perhaps telling you composer to make something similar would be for the best... imho, of course, but same goes for all posts, heh.

 

[Twinfalls]

Why not contact Eric Heberling, who composed Daggerfall's soundtrack, and see if he might throw a few tunes your way....?

 

[TotS]

"Alamo a few days before the fall: a small town that's preparing for something it might not survive, but without the heroic stuff. It's a refuge, but not a peaceful place. It's not a great place to live, but if you are there, you ran out of luck and options. Maybe a Wild West mood, but not that of successful, growing towns. Sorta "welcome to hell", but not too dominant. "

Well, if that's the premise, they're both a bit off.

The first sample of #1 doesn't convey the approaching whatever-the-hell-it-is at all. It reminds me more of a peaceful village somewhere in the deep woods, far away from all troubles of the world.
However, I like the set of instruments used, fits the Roman theme.

I'm not sure, what to make of the second sample. Seems a bit to fast and high for my ears, I don't like the strings and the drum rolls in the background reminds me to much of historical dramas with redcoats marching into ambushes.
Change the drum to a different rhythm, maybe a little bit louder, piano instead of pianissimo, and replace the strings with something else. Could take a bit less beats per minute (not too much though).

The first sample of #2 is promising, but the violins spoil it. Let him replace it with a panpipe or flute, maybe an octave deeper. Otherwise it a nice moody tune with a bit of pathos.

The last sample is a bit difficult. Due to the crappy compression rate it all sounds to artificial. Overall it reminds me more of closing credits - too much pathos in this case. I like the pseudo-vocals, though they're reinforcing this impression. Again, to much strings.


Generally I'd say, if you're looking for a Roman music style, tell you artists to scratch strings and pianos altogether and to stick with guitars, flutes, zithers, harps, tambourines, drums and the like.
This link might be of interest

The first guy seems more capable of doing the overall elevator - background - music, while the second guy should be great for special locations and events.

 

[serch]

"Alamo a few days before the fall: a small town that's preparing for something it might not survive, but without the heroic stuff. It's a refuge, but not a peaceful place. It's not a great place to live, but if you are there, you ran out of luck and options. Maybe a Wild West mood, but not that of successful, growing towns. Sorta "welcome to hell", but not too dominant. "

I'll give them some temporal context. I don't imply that your setting has a temporal line similar to our history, but you know what i mean: cultural, scientific, technical and philosophical achievements would have an influence in the mood of the music and instrument selection referred to that civilization.

Tinky-Winky
Dipsy
La-La
Po

 

[Hazelnut]

Need some opinions. These are music demos composed for AoD by two different artists. Which musician/style/melody/whatever do you prefer and why? It's an important decisions, so I'd appreciate opinions from everyone who cares enough to post. Again, these are demos, not final products.

First off, I think all four samples are very good which is a good sign. I enjoyed all of them, although it's a shame the demos from #1 are so short which makes it harder to compare. Do you have to choose one artist exclusively, or might you employ both for different areas / parts of the game?

I think that #1's demos are much more appropriate for background music for use while playing, wheras the demos from #2 are much more memorable and distinctive. Maybe more applicable for music for the menus / intro etc when you're not playing. (especially F_AoD2) The menu music often becomes an overall 'theme' mustic for the game and can really stick in the mind and resonate with the game experience long after a player has stopped playing. (Deus Ex springs to mind for me)

It's important that background music in a game is much less 'in your face' (can you tell I'm not very used to analysing music? ), and #1 did that better. Even with the shorter samples I think that it would also stand up to looping better. I do love #2's work though... so no clear decision from me, but I hope that helps.

EDIT: Having now read all the comments, I get the feeling that we need more to work with. I don't think that these samples are enough to go on if you have to just go with one of these artists. If you can work with both it may be okay, but to recommend #1 on the strength of ~1min of demo music is probably not a good idea.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Do you have to choose one artist exclusively, or might you employ both for different areas / parts of the game?

Working with 2 artists takes a lot more time than working with one, so I'll have to pick one based on the demos and the comments, which were very, very helpful, btw.

 

[ichpokhudezh]

#1/1 - doesn't fit the setting, imo. It plays like a romantic ballad slowed a bit. While it could be a decent piece of musak but without vocals this kind of stuff bores the hell out of me.

#1/2 - fits the setting better than the rest. It started to build up drama at the end - may be too much. The general wave-like pattern is "understated"/"mature" but it will bore me fast without instrumentation/tempo variety. Drums are somewhat underwhelming, albeit their presence is very welcome.

#2/1 - imo, the best musak piece. "Moving pictures with overall theme" - this stuff can go "forever". I usually don't like strings, but they play out ok here. I cannot feel any of "preparing for something it might not survive", just overall desperation/struggle.

#2/2 - has too much emphasis without too much dramatic movement for me - I'll get tired unless it goes somewhere. Not a musak piece anyhow. It might be an interesting stand-alone piece.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

I liked number 4, but the whailing gets a bit tiresome after a while (can it be toned down a bit?) and it doesn't really strike me as theme music for a town or "wilderness". More like a "main theme track" kinda thing, and in that it's bloody good.

 

[Balor]

Listened to the music - second composer fits the setting MUCH better, and I think that his music is better overall.
Yea, the vocals in the second piece are a bit overdone, but only a bit.

I still wish for more Mark Morgan music. *sigh*

 

[Andyman Messiah]

I still wish for more Mark Morgan music. *sigh*

If he's the Mark Morgan responsible for the music in PST I second that.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

I like both demo 2 and 3, and both would go reasonably well with the mood you describe. Can't really help you, I think both guys would be up to the job.

 

[Jora]

I still wish for more Mark Morgan music. *sigh*

If he's the Mark Morgan responsible for the music in PST I second that.

Not only Torment. He did the music for Fallout too.

 

[Balor]

He did the music for Fallout too.

Link?

 

[Jasede]

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/fallout/credits

Producer Timothy Cain
.
.
Music Supervisor Brian Luzietti
Music By Mark Morgan (for Four Bars Entertainment)

Timothy is a nice name.

Also:
http://www.soundtrack.net/composers/database/?id=696
http://www.last.fm/music/Mark+Morgan/Fallout
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0604877/
http://64.143.175.148/Composers/Morgan.pdf (Check out that agency, using the ip.)

 

[MacBone]

I prefer the first artist's work overall, but the second person does seem to capture the mood more. The first two demos are pretty but generic, and they seem like they blend easily into the background. The second two seem to draw attention to themselves more.

I'm also not crazy about the vocals in #4. Any chance that could be redone with a human voice? (Is it synthetic or organic?)

 

[Claw]

Totally artist #1. I think AoD2 fits the described location much better than F_AoD2. I don't really know what to make of that last demo.

 

[Elwro]

In short: go for Artist no. 2.


AoD.mp3/F_AoD.mp3: The first one is OK but the guy didn't work with effects so to my ear the flute sounds as if it's playing in a small, closed room, while the rest have different acoustics. There also seem to be some really minor rhythmical problems.
F_AoD is in my opinion the better of the two. The melody is more interesting. The sound is definitely more varied and thought-out. Also, some well-sounding dissonances of the second in appropriate places never hurt. The problem for me is that after some time the sound is mainly in the high register without proper balancing from the bass side - I think it'd become a bit tiresome in the long run. And the last long chord in the low register was, I suspect, made from a lame choral sample(which is a bit out of place - I mean, it's entirely proper for a similar chord to be there, but I'd suggest using a string sample); more on that later. Of course, maybe I'm mistaken and that's how you make string samples these days.

To sum up, in the first pair of pieces Artist no. 2 seems to have put more thought in his work, and I'd risk saying that he has shown more creativity than his competitor. On the other hand: maybe, just maybe, AoD.mp3 is too short and something magnificent happens later - but I doubt it.

Both AoD.mp3 and F_AoD.mp3 have the same shortcoming: the harmonies desperately need to change ASAP after the end of the tidbits. If they don't, the pieces will (I suspect) become really monotonous, but not in the "blend imperceptibly with the background" sense, but "ya know, it's boring when you hear it for the nth time" sense. This will of course happen only if the music is to be played non-stop.

AoD2.mp3/F_AoD2.mp3: About the first one: a big drawback is that it's strikingly evident that the guy is doing the cello part on a keyboard. Notice the unnatural difference in volume between the 7th and the 8th note of the cello, and especially the obviously unintentional syncopation around 0:23 (after the highest note). Using the keyboard is of course the way to do it, but more care and polish is needed. Also: the subtle changes in the background when introducing the second phrase were a good idea, but the fact that almost all instruments make a caesura around 0:14 wasn't - the place is not musically significant enough.
I'll say good and bad things about F_AoD2, but one's for sure: the guy used his brain when writing the piece and it shows. The idea was for the work to consist of two sections of contrasted tempi but similar harmony. Mind you, the chord sequence is so simple that I find it not to be a good idea to begin just with it. The guy should take a compulsory guanobath for using really bad, articial-sounding samples at the beginning - the faster section is a lot better in that respect. In the part after 0:54 Artist no. 2 shows that he can craft a nice piece even from very simple harmonies. The bells are a simple and welcome addition, too. I don't find the vocals appalling, they seem to fit the mood for me - they're certainly different from your standard I'm-a-virgin-fairy-please-rape-me fantasy soprano. A good piece!


Overall, I think these are VERY good work samples and both guys are promising. But apart from what I've written above, I have more pleasure from listening to Artist no. 2 and he also seems to have a better feel for orchestration. If these are the exact files the Artists submitted, then no. 1 made a serious blunder by not presenting some larger structures.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

I'm too incompetent to proprerly critique each artist, so I'd say just steal some Misfits, Dwarves and Zeke tunes and hope they never find out.

 

[Jaesun]

"Alamo a few days before the fall: a small town that's preparing for something it might not survive, but without the heroic stuff. It's a refuge, but not a peaceful place. It's not a great place to live, but if you are there, you ran out of luck and options. Maybe a Wild West mood, but not that of successful, growing towns. Sorta "welcome to hell", but not too dominant. "

Based on the above description.. #2 Demo 3.

Just as a FYI it is sometime difficult for an artist to write that exact music for your paticular "scene" or "feel". YOU have in your mind how the feel should be, but the musician only has your description in mind.

In the movie scores I have written, it was helpful to have the Director next to me as I worked on themes he wanted. Most if not all themes I had written based on his descriptions he just didn't like. Working with him directly helped to get the exact feel or mood he was looking for.

I was actually expecting a much "darker" score for AoD. A musical theme that came to mind for me on this game was something like the CD "Stalker - Brian Lustmord/Robert Rich" track Undulating Terrain (or some Krzysztof Penderecki) I thought it fitting to the games atmosphere.

Anyways, I think you do have some talanted musicians to do the music for AoD. Both artists I enjoy so far. I'm still more partial to Artists #2. More atmospheric and feeling.