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Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting - coming February 18th

Vulpes

Scholar
Joined
Oct 12, 2018
Messages
413
Location
Fourth Rome
Didn't stop The Outer Worlds from being a success. It's getting a sequel. Avowed may very well end up being successful enough to get a sequel as well. The preferences of this forum are ultimately not a very good indicator of whether or not something is a success.
The Outer Worlds was a commercial success because tons of normalfags fell for the "From the creators of Fallout New Vegas!" meme. The game itself has shown to a lot of people, both old fans and newcomers, that Obsidian does not have it in them anymore to make a game that's on par with FNV. They can't play the same card twice. Worst still, KCD 2 is coming out a week earlier, so now Avowed will be compared to both it and Skyrim.

And why should tastes of the masses matter, especially here of all places?
Because the Codex is too small of a community to sustain game dev studios by itself? Just look at Iron Tower.
And what does that have to do with what I've asked? What's the logic here? "Codex is too small a community to sustain gamedev, therefore it should embrace the shit tastes of the mainstream"?
Do I really have to spell it out? This sad cope of "It can't be us that's wrong! No! Never! Everyone else is!!!" is getting pretty tiring. I already get more than enough of that from gaming journalists. I hate to break it to everyone, but this place is not some grand authority when it comes to everything RPG-related.

Edit: On second thought I'd like to retract my statement, you're absolutely right. Screw the unwashed masses, RPG Codex knows best! Everyone should listen to what the Codex has to say! After all, Colony Ship turned out to be a huge commercial success! What does that cuck Swen know anyways? His game lets you have sex with a druid in bear form!
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
6,317
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Are you a developer? If not, why do you care what some developer thinks?
I accept my unimportance.

The photo was someone complaining that a bunch of women "ruined" Obsidian. Well, Obsidian's been doing just fine by any metric (financially, critically, user reception). The people on the Codex who hate the games they're putting out now very likely also hated the games they were making back then as well, so what's changed here really?


I enjoyed and defended pretty much every game Obsidian released before PoE and I even backed PoE. Obsidian was supposed to be the saviors of RPGs, "if only those pesky publishers didnt get in way of their visions!". "PoE will be that game that they always wanted to make and without publisher interference!"

Instead we only got mediocrity, safe, sanitized, mediocrity.

Looking back over their old Kickstarter, I don't think you can lay that charge at Obsidian's feet. They might have tapped into the mood but never overtly 'eaned into Fargo's anti-publisher rhetoric.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,882
The key art for this game is one of the coolest I've ever seen. A shame the gameplay doesn't seem to lean in that direction, that or if it does they have been hiding it extraordinarily well. Getting mentally blasted by fungi and disassociating yourself as the protagonist and falling down k holes and the like could be a sick contrast to the generic fantasy heroism.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,631
He is not a god of wisdom. Look at this description from Deadfire encyclopedia:
My bad, it's been years, dunno why I got stuck on him and "wisdom", maybe the deity thing. Still, the plan is moronic and arguing chaos as legitimising Eothas working against his own interests is a hard sell, even old D&D 3E charts agreed that "[Chaotic Neutral] is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it."

And yet we see that a god cannot be killed with a big bomb, however cool that sounds.
Kicking the can down the road is still a victory.

Not every story is a hero's journey, and stories have layers. The Watcher has personal stakes - the souls of his people are imprisoned, part of his soul is taken, he is brought back from the dead on the condition of following Eothas - take your pick, roleplay. [...]
But RPGs typically are often monomyths as a matter of necessity, the format requires that developmental curve at a mechanical level and it's fitting that the narrative progression mirror it. If your growth in ability doesn't enter the dimension of the plot thread you're following, it's narratively meaningless (i.e. yes, you're better at smashing Xuarips, and that doesn't matter for shit).

I brought up Cyberpunk 2077 as a comparison because that also reveals its conflict to ultimately be a hopeless struggle, but it works because CDPR's plot is focused on the personal, it's all about V and their way of dealing with their impending demise, not some external, world-changing event. Deadfire, however, is traditionally patterned around the antagonist (Eothas is that, functionally) and his plan, they are not a mere worldbuilding backdrop for a personal adventure. In fact, it follows very similar beats to BG2's plot around Irenicus, where the PC's despoiled of a part of themselves, they pursue the antagonist to discover his cataclysmic scheme, and then try to put an end to it (even in Deadfire's, sort of, I think Woedica suggests you see if you can "talk him out of it"). The stakes and progression are set up in a familiar way but the agency is missing, and it's not about the outcome itself (the alternative example I gave earlier would still see the Wheel destroyed), but having a part to play. You can't stop him, you can't trouble him along the way, he doesn't have to adapt to your progress, none of it.

The problem with Deadfire as the second in your three-act structure is that the PC and their efforts are redundant, they don't drive or affect any of the central events - if the Watcher never existed, Deadfire would still play out the same. It's not just that it's a linear story to play through, it's that not even at the writing level does it reserve some meaningful role for the protagonist within that linearity.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,521
Each faction gives you the means to reach Ukaizo - teleport through the storms, go underwater, calm the storms or sail the ghost ship. You can fit your ship with an ultimate upgrade to go through alone if you wish
Yeah, I found the ability to side with anyone or no-one to be one of the saving graces of PoE2. I preferred PoE in most ways, but despite being somewhat lukewarm on the game in general it was satisfying to abandon or betray everyone I didn't like (in my first playthrough I didn't bother building the fancy ship before going it alone, I just progressed the pirate quest until I got the ghost ship, didn't give it to the pirates, killed everyone I could, sailed to the endgame and got what I think must be the worst set of ending slides I've ever gotten in an RPG, which suited me fine as I wasn't fond of any of the factions or most of the characters.
You can tell that the writers don't really want you to go down that route, but I respect that they at least allowed it as an option, especially since there seems to be a push against allowing you to be evil or even reckless in video games now. I'll be interested to see how Avowed measures up in that regard.
For peak nihilist ending, you can also do Rymrgand's bidding. :M
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,729
The Outer Worlds was a commercial success because tons of normalfags fell for the "From the creators of Fallout New Vegas!" meme. The game itself has shown to a lot of people, both old fans and newcomers, that Obsidian does not have it in them anymore to make a game that's on par with FNV. They can't play the same card twice. Worst still, KCD 2 is coming out a week earlier, so now Avowed will be compared to both it and Skyrim.
Tim Cain's dismissed the "people were tricked" explanation because it continued to sell well over time. Released in October 2019, 2 million by February 2020. 3 million by May 2021. 4 million by August 2021. 5 million by October 2023. How is it that 2 million people were deeply unsatisfied and yet it went on to sell more than that initial amount over the next three years?
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,944
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
tons of normalfags fell for the "From the creators of Fallout New Vegas!
Except normalfags didn't like New Vegas--it consistently rates lower than Fallout 3 and 4 on all normie sites, got famously burned by metacritic costing them a bonus, and has been more or less de-canonized by Bethesda.

FNV is loved by people who aren't the target market of Outer Worlds, that's for sure. If anything this game did well by playing it much safer and using Sawyer Balanced (TM) design + Bro Shooter mechanics.
 

LizardWizard

Prophet
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
1,013
tons of normalfags fell for the "From the creators of Fallout New Vegas!
Except normalfags didn't like New Vegas--it consistently rates lower than Fallout 3 and 4 on all normie sites, got famously burned by metacritic costing them a bonus, and has been more or less de-canonized by Bethesda.

FNV is loved by people who aren't the target market of Outer Worlds, that's for sure. If anything this game did well by playing it much safer and using Sawyer Balanced (TM) design + Bro Shooter mechanics.

FNV rates higher than both those games on Steam

FNV got killed on metacrtic on release due to Bethsoft's shitty QA and forcing the game out the door before the holidays despite save killing bugs being rampant.
 

markec

Twitterbot
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
51,027
Location
Croatia
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Dead State Project: Eternity Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Are you a developer? If not, why do you care what some developer thinks?
I accept my unimportance.

The photo was someone complaining that a bunch of women "ruined" Obsidian. Well, Obsidian's been doing just fine by any metric (financially, critically, user reception). The people on the Codex who hate the games they're putting out now very likely also hated the games they were making back then as well, so what's changed here really?


I enjoyed and defended pretty much every game Obsidian released before PoE and I even backed PoE. Obsidian was supposed to be the saviors of RPGs, "if only those pesky publishers didnt get in way of their visions!". "PoE will be that game that they always wanted to make and without publisher interference!"

Instead we only got mediocrity, safe, sanitized, mediocrity.

Looking back over their old Kickstarter, I don't think you can lay that charge at Obsidian's feet. They might have tapped into the mood but never overtly 'eaned into Fargo's anti-publisher rhetoric.
It was fan sentiment more then official Obsidians stance. But it was a opinion based on reading between the lines interviews Obsidian staff did after pretty much every game they made before PoE.

No matter the faults of the games they made the fans always shifted the blame on publishers. In eyes of the fans they had to make games they didnt want just to stay afloat and rushed them in broken, unfinished state state because of publishers.

How many times did we read how they had plans or visions for a game, how much content they had to cut, how much they were forced to rush to finish the game on timeframe publishers set. If only they had a little more time, little more money, little more freedom, little more support from publishers those game they made would not be just a unpolished gems but true masterpieces.

It was fan sentiment but Obsidian did foster it quite a bit.
 

scytheavatar

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
688
The Outer Worlds are never an awful game...... it's more like an aggressively 7/10 game, and that might be good enough for many people. It felt more like a really long tech demo of a cool game than a cool game. Right now I do not have much faith that Avowed can even be as 7/10 as The Outer Worlds.
 

orcinator

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
1,776
Location
Republic of Kongou
The Outer Worlds are never an awful game...... it's more like an aggressively 7/10 game, and that might be good enough for many people. It felt more like a really long tech demo of a cool game than a cool game. Right now I do not have much faith that Avowed can even be as 7/10 as The Outer Worlds.
7/10 implies it did anything passably, when every single aspect of it, from the visuals to the plot to the gameplay was absolutely terrible.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,695
And why should tastes of the masses matter, especially here of all places?
Because the Codex is too small of a community to sustain game dev studios by itself? Just look at Iron Tower.
And what does that have to do with what I've asked? What's the logic here? "Codex is too small a community to sustain gamedev, therefore it should embrace the shit tastes of the mainstream"?
Do I really have to spell it out? This sad cope of "It can't be us that's wrong! No! Never! Everyone else is!!!" is getting pretty tiring. I already get more than enough of that from gaming journalists. I hate to break it to everyone, but this place is not some grand authority when it comes to everything RPG-related.

Edit: On second thought I'd like to retract my statement, you're absolutely right. Screw the unwashed masses, RPG Codex knows best! Everyone should listen to what the Codex has to say! After all, Colony Ship turned out to be a huge commercial success! What does that cuck Swen know anyways? His game lets you have sex with a druid in bear form!
I don't know how "Why should we care about the tastes of the masses" transform into "everyone should listen to us!" in your mind, but I suggest you learn basic reading comprehension you autistic sperg
 

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