Azrael's Tear

[SCO]

oh ok. i have a interesting spoiler above if you're interested.

 

[DraQ]

The combination of dialogue consequences and inability to simply exhaust dialogue tree is just awesome.

Also, I don't think I've ever heard mids this good, quality wise.

 

[DraQ]

This game gets awesomer and awesomer the further I venture. :D

I've got to end for tonight, though, it's 5am here and the raging boner this game gives my does a pretty good job depriving my brain of much needed blood.

 

[SCO]

What do you think of the game now?

Gets better as you go along right?

 

[DraQ]

What do you think of the game now?

Gets better as you go along right?

I believe I'm nearing the end. So far it seems rather consistently good.

 

[SCO]

This is a spoiler in the form of a question: did you find (location). It's nothing very spoilery, but you might mind so it's in there.

Spoiler

Did you find the secret lab, and the crypt?

 

[DraQ]

Spoiler

Ok, finished it. The ending was kind of 'bwuh?' and rather dark. Are there any other successful endings, or do you have to side with the Prieure? I'd also enjoy more in-depth exploration of grailstone, it's origin and, um, everything else.

Finally who the fuck were ANCIENT Byzantines? Someone seems to have failed history forever.

What's with this unreleased sequel, I couldn't find any info?

I do admire the alternative solutions, character interaction, paranoia and atmosphere in general.

This is a spoiler in the form of a question: did you find (location). It's nothing very spoilery, but you might mind so it's in there.

Spoiler

Did you find the secret lab, and the crypt?

Spoiler

You mean Malik's lab with dino on remote control?

And by the crypt, do you mean statue/sarcophagus with hidden notes?

 

[SCO]

Yep. There is another secret in the flower/leafy path but you found the main ones. What did you think of ... claude was it?

Spoiler

The zombie anyway. The lab has a hidden diary did you read it?

As for the ending, i suspect that:

Spoiler

Grail madness strikes again!
Probably sequel hook. I'm not the only one that sees how humanity is completely fucked at the rate they are going right?

Spoiler

Yeah the byzantine thing was stupid. Can't understand why myself just say mionic or atlantean and leave it at that... let us try to rationalize it:
It's just nationalism: Simon sees the templars as the heirs of the roman patriciate/gods after betrayal by rome but still follows Christianity: thus the aliens(?) that are the source of his power are ancient Byzantium. Alternatively, it is a alternate dimension in more ways than one.

 

[SCO]

Didn't you just love it how:

Spoiler

the villain isn't even in the game! How refreshing.
And he was the one that was right all along, scientifically speaking.
Pity that like madame curie and her husband he exposed himself to some heavy duty bad shit.

 

[SCO]

Neither could i find any info about the sequel. Black cat just left that hook dangling, and i was too busy FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-ing at the time to ask her about it.

Witch.

 

[SCO]

Also the

Spoiler

Libertarian overtones of the ending bothered me... a lot, American icky stuff in my european game? But then it clicked: it was a representation of the grail madness, and i think it was probably intended as that. But it was presented so completely serious! I'm still not sure, and that is part of the genius. It's not a kiddy game in anyway - it never spells it out!

ok this is enough gushing.

 

[DraQ]

Yep. There is another secret in the flower/leafy path but you found the main ones.

The one in flytraps wasn't all that concealed, especially after having your curiosity piqued by watching this area through that surveilance device with a lot of mirrors.

What did you think of ... claude was it?

Hmm... "Whoa."?
And yes, I think read all that was to be read. Checking the walkthrough, post-playing (part of my self-administered treatment alleviating withdrawal from completion whore-ism), I think I must've missed but one thing - how can I learn the previous identity of the sea monster? Did I miss something in my conversation by the well?

Spoiler

Yeah the byzantine thing was stupid. Can't understand why myself just say mionic or atlantean and leave it at that... let us try to rationalize it:
It's just nationalism: Simon sees the templars as the heirs of the roman patriciate/gods after betrayal by rome but still follows Christianity: thus the aliens(?) that are the source of his power are ancient Byzantium.

Possibly, but it severely marred my enjoyment.

Didn't you just love it how:

Spoiler

the villain isn't even in the game! How refreshing.
And he was the one that was right all along, scientifically speaking.
Pity that like madame curie and her husband he exposed himself to some heavy duty bad shit.

Skłodowska.
She was of potato.

Also, yes, but I wanted MOAR!

Spoiler

MOAR about grailstone, MOAR about the ancient... ugh... them, MOAR about the discoveries in the caverns, MOAR about Azrael's Tear(s), MOAR MOAR MOAR!

:somewhatdisappoint:

As for the ending, i suspect that:

Spoiler

Grail madness strikes again!
Probably sequel hook. I'm not the only one that sees how humanity is completely fucked at the rate they are going right?

and

Also the

Spoiler

Libertarian overtones of the ending bothered me... a lot, American icky stuff in my european game? But then it clicked: it was a representation of the grail madness, and i think it was probably intended as that. But it was presented so completely serious! I'm still not sure, and that is part of the genius. It's not a kiddy game in anyway - it never spells it out!

I've used my awsum, potato powered google-fu and dug up some info about the supposed sequel:

First, not "RHO", but "DHO" - "Dark Hermetic Order". Barring the cheese it would fit and be consistent with AT's what-the-hell? ending not being supposed to be a happy one.

Works for me - unhappy ending I can live with, inexplicably dissonant one - I cannot.

Finally, I've been looking around the 'net for reasons behind relatively bad user reception and must conclude that humans are fucking morons.

Apart from rather obvious DN3D, Q1 and game being a resource hog, I've found complaints about steep learning curve (what.), complicated, unclear interface (wat.), stupid title (wat.), and wrong platform (I don't see why there would be any problems with running it in W95, so wat.).

Ok, the interface could use some customization (invert mouselook, custom key bindings), and making the character turn on collision was bad, but I can't wrap my head around it being difficult, unclear, or the game having steep learning curve.

 

[SCO]

It was released in 1996, same year as Diablo and Duke Nukem 3D. It's probably bad taste to blame Fps for the critical reception of a fp adventure, but i can help but think reviewers are morons.
Anyway, the game doesn't show it's plot strength until well after the demo area anyway, so for them they were looking at a clumsy 3d myst-like.

As for the identity of the monster, no clue Black Cat are you there?

Jesus christ look at this amazing decline of the company:

* Imperium (EA)
* 'Nam 1965-1975 (Domark)
* USS Ticonderoga (Mindscape)
* SimIsle (Maxis)
* PGA European Tour Golf (EA)
* Azrael's Tear (Mindscape)
* Waterworld (Interplay)
* Dune 2000 (Westwood Studios)
* Formula 1 Manager (EA)
* Pro 18 World Tour Golf (Psygnosis)
* LEGO Loco (LEGO)
* LEGO Stunt Rally (LEGO)
* Action Man: Raid on Island X (Hasbro)
* Action Man: Jungle Storm (Hasbro)
* Tweenies (BBC)
* Droid Developer Kit (LEGO)
* Emperor: Battle for Dune (Westwood Studios)
* FIFA World Cup 2002 (EA)
* Carrera Grand Prix (Take-Two Interactive)
* Dexter’s Lab: Science aint fair (Bam!)
* The Powerpuff Girls: Mojo's Pet Project (Bam!)
* The Powerpuff Girls: Gamesville (Bam!)

Still went out of business anyway.

 

[DraQ]

Ah, one more thing - dialogue log. This game needs one badly. If your helmet can translate stuff on the fly and interpret scans in real time, it can also convert voice to text and store it. There can be no excuse.


Also, probably the best implementation of "trust no one" ever.

 

[SCO]

Lolz:
http://www.stibbe.net/Writing/Games_Ind ... amesco.htm

"I am often asked for advice by people who want to start up their own games development companies. Beyond the obvious answer: 'don't,' because it is difficult, risky and unlikely to be profitable "

...

"On the subject of royalties – most publishers talk as if they are almost guaranteed when they are negotiating a deal. Don’t believe it. Generally, royalty rates are calculated so that the product has to exceed its sales targets just to break even on the advances. Some people are able to get fantastic royalty rates that buck this tendency but usually this is because either they have had a previous hit or because they are part- or wholly-funding the game development themselves and taking the risk away from the publisher. "

...

"A final unspoken truth is that publishers deliberately kill at least 50% of all the titles they sign before completion. In IG’s twelve-year experience we do two paid-for designs for every one that gets put into full production and about half our in-production titles get killed. This is a fact of life for all developers but few like to admit it because it looks like admitting weakness. The reasons are many: changing markets, publishers going bust or retrenching, development delays, the release of an unexpected competitor product and occasionally sheer incompetence. Having a product killed is extremely uncomfortable. Even with a cancellation fee, you have to rapidly find work for the team by selling a new project and deal with your nicely planned world being turned upside down and you have to deal with the team’s feelings about this too. Usually a termination is preceded by an uncomfortable period with your publisher where they behave strangely and sometimes stop paying and this can serve as a warning but can also be very stressful."

...

 

[SCO]

What bothers me most is that this is like a book series left unfinished in the middle of the second book (it's very annoying).
Not quite as bad as anachronox, but bad enough. Strange how we need thematically consistent endings.

 

[Black Cat]

As for the identity of the monster, no clue Black Cat are you there?

I don't remember exactly how was that my friend found about it but I believe you had to dig a lot and put the pieces together, since discovering who it is and surviving you encounter with it if you pick to believe you know who instead of, you know, the other one it's kind of a puzzle.

In any case,

Spoiler

It is the sister of the ghost girl in the well or something like that, I think.

At least that's his theory. His explanation was a pretty good one, i think, but he might have gotten something wrong. I'll ask him later to explain again why he said so.

Though, was it ever explained why her ghost remained?

Spoiler

Outside of a grailstone did it, i mean, since she's the only ghost we ever actually meet.

BTW slight spoiler

Spoiler

It's possible to pacify that big guy in the next encounter you have with him if you play it correctly. He gives lots of exposition.

I should replay the game, I never knew about that one, i just sneaked around him. Also,

Spoiler

Is there a way to not have to fight the knight that sends you to the ship to recover the chest? I never knew whether I was doing something wrong or it was always like that.

As for the ending, i suspect that:

Spoiler

Grail madness strikes again!
Probably sequel hook. I'm not the only one that sees how humanity is completely fucked at the rate they are going right?

Indeed. The setup for the sequel was really interesting, though.

Spoiler

On one hand you have you know who, on the other hand a city on the hill wannabe group set around using the Grail for themselves and LOL at the rest. It's basicaly Aeternis all over again waiting to happen.

Also, yes, but I wanted MOAR!

Spoiler

MOAR about grailstone, MOAR about the ancient... ugh... them, MOAR about the discoveries in the caverns, MOAR about Azrael's Tear(s), MOAR MOAR MOAR!

Also, MOAR about the Raptors.

Spoiler

You have this amazing group of guys and gals who are the stuff Stalkers dream of being when they grow up, in a setting full of weird ancient landmasses and long forgotten ruins full of strange and with some interesting interpretations of the usual occult conspiracies going on behind the scenes. It must be a very interesting job, at the very least.

And, indeed,

Spoiler

After all the things you read about the expedition into the caverns you never actually go there! That was so cruel!

First, not "RHO", but "DHO" - "Dark Hermetic Order". Barring the cheese it would fit and be consistent with AT's what-the-hell? ending not being supposed to be a happy one.

I see, so the forum I got the name from had it wrong. So that's why I never actually found any valuable information about the sequel by myself and had to depend on what those of my friends who knew the game had heard themselves. I'm sorry about the mistake.

That name kind of fits in the setting.

Finally, I've been looking around the 'net for reasons behind relatively bad user reception and must conclude that humans are fucking morons.

Also, this. The game's smart, mature, and deep. And for all the weirdness you come across in Aeternis the characters have the strangest set of interpersonal relationships and broken psyches I have ever seen on a game, and Aeternis itself, both what we see and we just read about, is an amazing place. The decline must have began much earlier than we tought.

An industry in which first person adventure games and first person dungeon crawlers would have evolved in Azrael's Tear direction would be much less stupid and banal shit boring.

 

[SCO]

Spoiler

Is there a way to not have to fight the knight that sends you to the ship to recover the chest? I never knew whether I was doing something wrong or it was always like that.

I don't think so. I'm still not sure what that was about (and forgot most of the plot mean while).

Anyway questions:

Spoiler

Phillip was the spider and lurka was cobweb right? Allied spies, but why does Phillip tell you to trust Edgar (the chest guy). He is even a agent of Tobias, Lurka would be in a ideal position to find that out too - do you think that Tobias suspected Phillip being the spider, or was that "just" because of the knight schism? In fact, now that i think about it, that was probably his attempt to secretly gain control again for the DHO.

 

[DraQ]

Spoiler

she's the only ghost we ever actually meet.

What about the guy in front of the

Spoiler

wafer eating door

?

BTW slight spoiler

Spoiler

It's possible to pacify that big guy in the next encounter you have with him if you play it correctly. He gives lots of exposition.

I should replay the game, I never knew about that one, i just sneaked around him.

It's pretty hardcore, arguably the most trap-riddled dialogue tree ever.

Also, MOAR about the Raptors.

I think Lara Croft wouldn't have high life expectancy in this job.


Still, they are pretty much high-level, archaeologically minded STALKERs - sufficiently satisfactory explanation IMO.

Also, this. The game's smart, mature, and deep. And for all the weirdness you come across in Aeternis the characters have the strangest set of interpersonal relationships and broken psyches I have ever seen on a game, and Aeternis itself, both what we see and we just read about, is an amazing place. The decline must have began much earlier than we tought.

An industry in which first person adventure games and first person dungeon crawlers would have evolved in Azrael's Tear direction would be much less stupid and banal shit boring.

FAPFAPFAPFAP

This has always been the direction I more or less dreamed of. Mix AT's less combat centric approach with about any modern story heavy FPS or RPG and you have epic incline.

One more thing, why do fucktards keep saying the game looked bad? I found it rather purdy.

Ah, and finally:

Spoiler

Wasn't Malik "Spider" and Philip "Cobweb"?

 

[empi]

This thread makes this game I had barely heard of seem really fascinating. How long does it take to play roughly? Unfortunately I don't really have much time atm ...

 

[SCO]

Ah, and finally:

Spoiler

Wasn't Malik "Spider" and Philip "Cobweb"?

Apparently i forgot more than i though.
Game is pretty, especially the areas that the art direction thought should be more detailed, but very pixelized. I guess adventure gamers at this time wanted either Myst or Riven photographic graphics or clean cartoon graphics like GK or Dott.

Decline starts at the top.

*listening to deus ex hong kong music in loop. I want to feel epic*

 

[SCO]

Don't you just love this shit? Reach into the past - look into a game noone gave much of a chance and that you never heard of - and finding a impossible gem?

 

[Gragt]

Meh. Another one to add on my decidedly too long list of things to play.

Good thing there are few good games coming out lately because I'm knee-deep into the old ones.

 

[DraQ]

Still, they should have rendered the first part of the outro in FPP. With game never using TPP, suddenly going third person just pulls you out of the experience, the fact that the animation is just atrocious doesn't help either.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Ah, one more thing - dialogue log. This game needs one badly. If your helmet can translate stuff on the fly and interpret scans in real time, it can also convert voice to text and store it. There can be no excuse.


Also, probably the best implementation of "trust no one" ever.

You mean besides the American govt.?


Also, yes, I have the game in my collection if anyone still needs it!