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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

BEvers

I'm forever blowing
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I’m probably way late to the party here but what the fuck is up with Sven saying in that GameSpot interview that BG1 and 2 is based on D&D 3.5? :lol:

That seems to be a more widespread error. Yesterday another interviewer on the E3 Twitch stream asked how BG's ruleset was being converted from 3.5E to 5E and Swen gave an answer without correcting her. Either he's too kind to correct interviewers (and himself), or he doesn't know that it's wrong.

My personal assumption is that the people who prepare the briefings for these interviews made an error and Swen is following their script.
 
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Every fucking map change you need to adjust the camera. Every fucking turn in a dungeon you need to adjust the camera.

It's less about not being able to use it, it's about having to "use" it all the time.


Yup, that's the Major bugbear (TOEE pun intended). Just like the first wave of 3D RTS games, most of them, a decade earlier. Due to the inexperience, you could see the benefit, but the the hassle involved made the earlier static games so much more pleasant to play still. Myth is still ace, by the way; and needs to be brought to the modern era quickly. Of course Larian have a good fistful of 3d games already under their belt, so.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Due to the inexperience, you could see the benefit, but the the hassle involved made the earlier static games so much more pleasant to play still.

If it's "a hassle" to tailor a cam with a few clicks then you are not a PC gamer. Of course, it would be better if it was set like that by default, but most people were used to the "immershun" cams, so Obsidian just left it like that.

The point is that the cam is supreme in conception for tactics. I've already explained why but you can't comprehend because you have no reference point (ignorant).
 
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The Bishop

Cipher
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407
Okay, maybe it will be turn-based after all - possibly a Realms of Arkania type hybrid with 1st person exploration and isometric combat.

In a party-based game, you can only do TB or RTwP. And if they do consoles, then that leaves only TB.
Yes, they bought the biggest IP they could lay their hands on and hired 300 people to make Realms of Arkania HD.
 

Mr. Hiver

Dumbfuck!
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Heres all the citation you can ever need. Swen himself!

bpABbWt.jpg



I mean, seriously ? You fell for that? Do you have any idea how lucky you are i despise trolling? For fuck sake...
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
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Messages
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The thing is, though, you shouldn't need intelligence to use the camera. It should just work.

I said "basic human intelligence", you lousy nimrod. Which is simply activating Strategy mode, clicking Camera Mode: Can Be Moved Freely (Free Camera), Ceilings Always Off and Marquee Select On. Wow, my brain hurts.

And no, it doesn't. What's the big improvement that this strategic camera offers compared to the others? Free scrolling? Is that the big technical achievement? Obsidian discovered free scrolling?

Cams don't "scroll". And no other cam tracks like the Electron one does.

The power of tracking in Electron:


The flaws highlighted by you were highlighted by me already, both in this thread and on my blog. In fact, you probably only know about them from my writings, you parrot.

Its pros still outweigh its cons. And my argument was only that this cam should be employed by BG3, with these kinks ironed out.

By the way, rotation doesn't offer ANY advantage. Nothing that NWN2 takes advantage of anyway. Rotation only causes many of the issues, causing you to constantly need to adjust the camera.

In 2d isometric games such as Fallout shit gets hidden behind wall-tiles and isn't easy to see. Only Jagged Alliance 2 did things properly. The ability to rotate is clearly advantageous. And tracking facilitates proper large-scale battles, such as the one I posted a screencap of earlier.

Don't let your fanboyism for Fallout and isometric blind yourself to the evolution. This is the most tactical cam for RPGs, full stop. And anyone who devalues it is written off immediately, including you.
It has been some time since I played NWN2, but from my memory of using tactical cam it had issues. You had to rotate all the time to be able to see what is going on (especially bad in corridors and small rooms) as the game was not designed for isometric view. Also it had problems when your characters went up hills, I remember I had to manually go up all the time and it didn't always work properly.
I still remember I fought the camere in NWN2 more than enemies. Now when I played PoE1, Tyranny and Kingmaker I could again see and feel the superiority of a well designed camera and view.

EDIT: I didn't use autofollow, I moved the camera myself like it worked in IE games.
 
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Mr. Hiver

Dumbfuck!
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In 2d isometric games such as Fallout shit gets hidden behind wall-tiles and isn't easy to see.
Never happened.

That electron camera view has potential but it needs to be improved.
And of course it would require specific environment and combat design adjustments, etc.
 

fantadomat

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Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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From the looks of it,it will be a Illithid killing campaign.That is cool because they were pretty memorable from BG and torment games. Also they had a forward outpost in BG2,thus BG3 looks more like a direct sequel. Tho i didn't know that they just come out of people in a instant,interesting way of reproducing. If the game was made by Obsidian i would have been ready to wager good money on being third person. But it is made by Larian,and they do have very diverse portfolio. All i hope is that they don't go TB,that will go against everything BG was. Another concern is their messy and sjw writing,they do small isolated stories and dialogue fine,but they do tend to fuck up their grand story and lore building. Oh well,we will see in due time.


Hey Lilura ,welcome back,happy to see you here,did miss your posts ;).


PS: Drow women do make great sex slaves. Shame that D&D doesn't have a glorious Slav race tho.
 

Atlantico

unida e indivisible
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Make the Codex Great Again!
Are you seriously asserting that the removal of a class from the AD&D 2nd edition --- a class that had existed since 1975 --- did not constitute a rules change?

You're being very disingenuous with your description, since the removal of the class was not as permanent as you imply - as I've explained but you simply ignore, because it's not convenient to your (autistic?) narrative.

The presence or absence of the Assassin sub-class in the core rule book has no effect on any campaign setting.

As for the notion of assassins being a sub-class available as an option, this was not true of AD&D 2nd edition; at most, there was an assassin "kit" included amongst 18 such kits for thieves in The Complete Thief's Handbook, i.e. an optional part of an optional accessory.

What makes this particularly disingenuous is that you're basically rewriting exactly what I wrote, but with a biased slant, and is lined with internal inconsistencies as is typical for someone trying to twist facts into something that fits their narrative, as opposed to reality. Re-posting the screenshot I posted, is also very disingenuous, the question posed by the turkaroach was very open to any interpretation, probably not by design, but by incompetence and limited language skills.

Assassins are available in AD&D 2nd edition, as you yourself concede, as a class kit - i.e. a sub-class of thieves. The 2nd edition was simply designed that way, that's why it's a new edition. Optional accessories are a completely legitimate part of the 2nd edition as anything, but this way they sell more books for TSR - you also very casually brush over the fact that the Forgotten Realms campaign setting is itself an optional accessory.

To quote Jeff Grubb from Dragon Magazine #153 (January 1990): "“Of course, there'’s more,” I continued. “A lot of little things changed with the appearance of the AD&D 2nd Edition game, such as the nature of spell lists and the official introduction of proficiencies and ability checks. The FORGOTTEN REALMS setting is TSR'’s official AD&D 2nd Edition world. In showing how we made the switch to the AD&D 2nd Edition game, we show all the other DMs how to make the transition, both for their own worlds and for the Realms.”"

A fantastic quote, and it doesn't actually support your bizarre claim at all - i.e. that the Avatar trilogy was written to explain rule-changes.

What Jeff mentions is changes to spell list, proficiencies made official, ability checks and so on - all rule changes from 1st edition to 2nd edition - and none of them exemplified or explained in any way, shape or form in the Avatar trilogy.

He's talking about the new Gold Box campaign setting, not the Avatar trilogy.

Or to quote from the end of FRE3 Waterdeep: "Now the purpose of the Avatar storyline becomes clear: It provides a golden opportunity for DMs to change from the original AD&D® game to the AD&D 2nd Edition rules."

Yes, this is exactly what I've been saying - it's a golden opportunity to buy the new books. To dump 1st edition for the 2nd edition.

Is your particular autism preventing you from reading and comprehending text, because your quote supports my claim and undermines yours.

The purpose of the Avatar storyline is very clear indeed: it provides a great opportunity for people who had the 1st edition AD&D to change to 2nd edition. Nowhere does it mention that its purpose was to explain rule-changes.

FRE3: Waterdeep is an adventure module, it ties directly to the Avatar trilogy and it is 2nd edition AD&D. A golden opportunity to upgrade to 2nd edition, indeed.
 
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J_C

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But congratulations on adopting J_C's apologism, I guess. He also thinks he's very clever because he figured out how to rotate a 3D camera.
If you are talking about me, at least tag me appropriately, so I can defend myself. I only stumbled about your comment accidentally. Anyway, I don't think that I'm clever because I figured out the 3D camera, I think that is a bare minimum of hand-eye coordination a gamer should have. If you can't use a 3D camera, well figure it out what does that tell about you.
 

Cael

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The point is that the cam is supreme in conception for tactics. I've already explained why but you can't comprehend because you have no reference point (ignorant).

Which makes it all the more unfortunate that NWN2 really didn't require much in the way of tactics.
NWN/2 are both main toon plus sidekick, regardless of how they wish to portray it. No different to FO/2. Tactics are seriously not even on the radar... or the project brief.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Messages
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Which makes it all the more unfortunate that NWN2 really didn't require much in the way of tactics.

Not compared to Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, no. And definitely not compared to ToEE, Jagged Alliance 2 or Silent Storm. And there are some tactical modules, but nothing comparable to Swordflight on Aurora.
 

FeelTheRads

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Messages
13,716
In fact, you probably only know about them from my writings, you parrot.

No. Sorry, but you didn't even exist as far as I'm concerned when I was playing NWN2.

In 2d isometric games such as Fallout shit gets hidden behind wall-tiles and isn't easy to see. Only Jagged Alliance 2 did things properly. The ability to rotate is clearly advantageous.

Also no.

If the rotation is needed only to see things behind walls then don't put things behind walls. Simple.

Anyway, I don't think that I'm clever because I figured out the 3D camera, I think that is a bare minimum of hand-eye coordination a gamer should have. If you can't use a 3D camera, well figure it out what does that tell about you.

No, you don't think you're clever, you just think you posses some skills that people who complain about the camera don't. :lol:

Nope, sorry idiot, the camera is shit. All its variations, including the "strategy" camera. I can use it, I just don't want to. Because it's shit, and I shouldn't have to fight the camera to play a game.
 

Cael

Arcane
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If the rotation is needed only to see things behind walls then don't put things behind walls. Simple.
It is not about the maker putting things behind the wall, but things accidentally end up behind the wall. An example is the slaver outside NCR in FO2. If you kill him while he is behind the counter (which is highly likely), his body drops out of sight behind the counter and you can't access it. Being able to rotate the view would alleviate that problem instantly.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Lilura, do you understand that you're going up against an age-old Codex consensus here? That NWN2 had a terrible, game-ruining camera is like, a formative myth of this website. It's like walking into a Christian church and telling them "Actually, Judas was good".

Personally I've always thought this was an exaggerated issue, but there was definitely something wrong with it because NWN1 and DA:O's cameras felt better.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Lilura, do you understand that you're going up against an age-old Codex consensus here? That NWN2 had a terrible, game-ruining camera is like, a formative myth of this website. It's like walking into a Christian church and telling them "Actually, Judas was good".

Personally I've always thought this was an exaggerated issue, but there was definitely something wrong with it because NWN1 and DA:O's cameras felt better.

Actually, it's the Aurora and Eclipse engines that have traditionally felt better because their renderers were more optimized. This is about the cam concept, not the renderer. In Aurora, you need to use NumPad to tilt and you can't see very far ahead. Which means much more clicking to move about. In this pic, that's one click to move over complex undulating terrain in order to reach the blue asterisk which is quite distant.


Then the cam auto-tracks and you can rotate, truck and zoom as it does so, checking out your surroundings.

You can't do that in Aurora (including The Witcher), Odyssey or Eclipse.

Most of the complaints are based on pre-patch aka pre-strategy cam. The kinks in Strategy cam are minor and don't change the concept of the cam, which I'm arguing in favor of.
 
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Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.

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