Decline Best combat build for a first timer?

[Kalin]

Hey faget, you still owe me 5 gorillion bottlecaps.

 

[Jason Liang]

IIRC yes, unless you joined the guards by betraying the Merchant's Guild or the Assassin's Guild. If you joined IG right away (say as a Mercenary) you should be able to leave after the first IG quest.

As for a good axe, you'll have to either buy one in the Temple District or loot one from the Arena. you can avoid most of the harder Maadoran combats by teleporting and/or clever use of encounters. In the slums you can pick a fight with the beggars to sneak past the gang blocking the path to the Temple District.

 

[Severian Silk]

The door to the IG always 'needs a key' and the gate is closed.

 

[Skittles]

The door to the IG always 'needs a key' and the gate is closed.

After you assault the tower for the IG, you are prohibited from leaving their compound until the end of their questline in Teron. Is that what you're referring to?

In Maadoran, you'll be able to get your possessions back once you report in. I can't recall any combat encounters that you can't talk your way out of or avoid before that point. There's the trial by combat, which is avoidable. Even if you take it, can't you request an axe? Otherwise, I think it's just the muggers if you make a beeline for the fort, and there a body count check will let you complete the encounter even if you have no talky skills. Am I forgetting any?

 

[Jazz_]

what did Drog choose in the end?

 

[Severian Silk]

The door to the IG always 'needs a key' and the gate is closed.

After you assault the tower for the IG, you are prohibited from leaving their compound until the end of their questline in Teron. Is that what you're referring to?

In Maadoran, you'll be able to get your possessions back once you report in. I can't recall any combat encounters that you can't talk your way out of or avoid before that point. There's the trial by combat, which is avoidable. Even if you take it, can't you request an axe? Otherwise, I think it's just the muggers if you make a beeline for the fort, and there a body count check will let you complete the encounter even if you have no talky skills. Am I forgetting any?

There should be a warning though IMO. "Complete Teron quests before joining IG."

I ran away from Mitilades' thugs. Is there any way I can continue the related quest line? I just read that there's more stuff after the ambush, and I missed out by running away.

 

[Severian Silk]

what did Drog choose in the end?

He supped with the guard leaders.

 

[Jason Liang]

The door to the IG always 'needs a key' and the gate is closed.

After you assault the tower for the IG, you are prohibited from leaving their compound until the end of their questline in Teron. Is that what you're referring to?

In Maadoran, you'll be able to get your possessions back once you report in. I can't recall any combat encounters that you can't talk your way out of or avoid before that point. There's the trial by combat, which is avoidable. Even if you take it, can't you request an axe? Otherwise, I think it's just the muggers if you make a beeline for the fort, and there a body count check will let you complete the encounter even if you have no talky skills. Am I forgetting any?

There should be a warning though IMO. "Complete Teron quests before joining IG."

I ran away from Mitilades' thugs. Is there any way I can continue the related quest line? I just read that there's more stuff after the ambush, and I missed out by running away.

No, you have to fight them to get mitilades in Maadoran.

You can't be this combat-adverse in the IG route. IG is the most combat-intensive path through the game, with the hardest fights, including THE hardest fight.

 

[Skittles]

The door to the IG always 'needs a key' and the gate is closed.

After you assault the tower for the IG, you are prohibited from leaving their compound until the end of their questline in Teron. Is that what you're referring to?

In Maadoran, you'll be able to get your possessions back once you report in. I can't recall any combat encounters that you can't talk your way out of or avoid before that point. There's the trial by combat, which is avoidable. Even if you take it, can't you request an axe? Otherwise, I think it's just the muggers if you make a beeline for the fort, and there a body count check will let you complete the encounter even if you have no talky skills. Am I forgetting any?

There should be a warning though IMO. "Complete Teron quests before joining IG."

I ran away from Mitilades' thugs. Is there any way I can continue the related quest line? I just read that there's more stuff after the ambush, and I missed out by running away.

Yeah, it wasn't clear to me the first time either. I guess it makes sense that you can't poke around and do other quests mid-coup, but I don't recall enough big signposts that mission two would be the start of the insurrection. But you can do the initiation quest without getting locked in.

There doesn't appear to be a way to continue Militades' questline. It's worth doing in a playthrough, but you're not missing out on a lot of content or any unique rewards. His quest line just begs you to walk away at various points--either out of frustration or out of unwillingness to stoop to his level. That's really its point--no big story changes or setting revelations, no game altering rewards.

 

[Kalin]

Still waiting for my 50 gigatrillion bottlecaps.

 

[Jason Liang]

True Miltiades' questline wont affect the ending, but the cash reward is quite significant (it pays off most of the blue steel armor) and is worth a decent number of SP and bodycount as well.

 

[Severian Silk]

I can no longer trigger combat with Esbenus. He just asks if I "have the money". I should still be able to fight him.

 

[Jason Liang]

Yup. That part's annoying too. You can only fight the Raiders in the first encounter. That's why if you want to get the Terminator title, you can't get Cado's goblet quest in Thief Guild path, for example.

 

[Goral]

I can no longer trigger combat with Esbenus. He just asks if I "have the money". I should still be able to fight him.

There used to be the option to start combat whenever we wanted but it seems it caused some bugs and they've disabled it. But I agree that there should be such an option.

 

[Jason Liang]

Honestly this is one of the common criticisms people have of AoD. There's a basic "solution" to Teron if you want to do everything, and if you deviate from that solution too much you'll start missing stuff. Generally RPGs aren't solveable to the same specific degree that Teron is.

 

[bati]

I'm currently playing with assassin, thanks to Jason Liang 's enthusiastic writeup and I find the one attack per turn somewhat crippling early in the game. And at 8 PER (5/9/4/8/7/7) ,2 bow, assassin trading and a +6 THC longbow (from 4 crafting) my hit chance on headshots is abysmal - I'm talking mid twenties versus lightly armoured targets. It does get better later on though, I ran a test char to Madoraan yesterday (10 PER though) and it got a lot better once I got bows to about 5 or 6. So, any tips for early game? Except for fast shot + 4 alchemy (which I'm currently using)? Even with 5 dodge the fight versus Miletidas' ambush is nuts, as is the fight versus girl and her two bodyguards that try to rob you. I solved the raiders + outpost with diplomacy because it's rage inducing trying to complete them with low hit chance and 4 CON.

 

[Jason Liang]

You don't need to use headshots against lightly armored targets, if you are having trouble hitting use fastshot + the appropriate ammo. As for defense, target arms and head to complement your defense.

You definitely need 5/6 dodge and wear good armor, especially to beat the Raider outpost.

idk what the problem with the Miltiades ambush is. First you quickly kill the armored axeman with head shots (he doesn't dodge), then you kill the swordsman with poisoned fast shots to the body. If you want to do the 2nd fight, you can one shot the noble with barbed ammo and take his guards with poison.

 

[bati]

Yeah I reloaded a few times and it went off without a hitch. Guess it was just a string of bad rng.

 

[Parabalus]

You don't need to use headshots against lightly armored targets, if you are having trouble hitting use fastshot + the appropriate ammo. As for defense, target arms and head to complement your defense.

You definitely need 5/6 dodge and wear good armor, especially to beat the Raider outpost.

idk what the problem with the Miltiades ambush is. First you quickly kill the armored axeman with head shots (he doesn't dodge), then you kill the swordsman with poisoned fast shots to the body. If you want to do the 2nd fight, you can one shot the noble with barbed ammo and take his guards with poison.

After you lauded bow so much, I gave it a go as 696874 and I just couldn't make head shots work. You wrote you can clear Teron and Maadoran with 3 bow+ass training, but with that low rating I had <50% on aimed:head at point blank. The 3 Maadoran starting thugs encounter had me at 50% with 6 bow.

I mostly used move-multishot and did clear everything+Terminator without too much trouble or spending points in dodge, but it wasn't as breezy as I hoped it would be following your high praise. Especially would have liked to use double fast with 10 DEX quite often, I wonder what playstyle difference there is here since you dismissed it quite readily. Def. felt weaker than xbow and this was without 7 CHA.

There used to be the option to start combat whenever we wanted but it seems it caused some bugs and they've disabled it. But I agree that there should be such an option.

I usually start combat manually next to the archers, if I'm reading you right that option goes away if you return to Dellar and come back? Good to know.

There should be a warning though IMO. "Complete Teron quests before joining IG."

I ran away from Mitilades' thugs. Is there any way I can continue the related quest line? I just read that there's more stuff after the ambush, and I missed out by running away.

If you aren't planning on another run immediately after this one, you can console yourself to the 2nd encounter(the Maadoran one) without breaking stuff, ie. you get the followup in Ganezzar normally. It's a travesty to miss out on Mili.

 

[Jason Liang]

You don't need to use headshots against lightly armored targets, if you are having trouble hitting use fastshot + the appropriate ammo. As for defense, target arms and head to complement your defense.

You definitely need 5/6 dodge and wear good armor, especially to beat the Raider outpost.

idk what the problem with the Miltiades ambush is. First you quickly kill the armored axeman with head shots (he doesn't dodge), then you kill the swordsman with poisoned fast shots to the body. If you want to do the 2nd fight, you can one shot the noble with barbed ammo and take his guards with poison.

After you lauded bow so much, I gave it a go as 696874 and I just couldn't make head shots work. You wrote you can clear Teron and Maadoran with 3 bow+ass training, but with that low rating I had <50% on aimed:head at point blank. The 3 Maadoran starting thugs encounter had me at 50% with 6 bow.

You can get away with no points in bow if you go up to 10 PER, but remember we talked about this you wanted to put those 2 points in CON At 8 PER I think you should bring bow to 4, 4/6 is perfectly capable for Act 1.

There's really no difference in accuracy between the different weapons. All the fights in Act 1 are balanced to be doable for 6/6. 8 PER 4/6 bow + Fulvio's training is equivalent to 8 PER 6/6 (counting the PER range weapon bonus).

With the 10 PER build, since I'm not putting points into bow directly, I use a mix of longbow, heavy xbow and hand xbow.

The Maadoran thugs are much harder to hit than any of the targets in Teron, but you can teleport past them, go directly to the Trade District and buy the endgame bow that makes up for that.

I mostly used move-multishot and did clear everything+Terminator without too much trouble or spending points in dodge, but it wasn't as breezy as I hoped it would be following your high praise. Especially would have liked to use double fast with 10 DEX quite often, I wonder what playstyle difference there is here since you dismissed it quite readily. Def. felt weaker than xbow and this was without 7 CHA.

Multishot is really a lot worse than headshot. I'm not sure why you found xbow easier, unless you mean everything is easy once you get the Bolter:p Longbow has several advantages over heavy xbow, including higher damage, better criticals, better target effects (since you are using a 7AP attack instead of a 2 AP attack), instant ammo switching, and the ability to use fast shot against high dodge mooks and power shot occasionally.

For me the goal as a hybrid build is to use mostly only combat points to improve combat skills and most SP on civil skills like Lore/ Crafting/ Alchemy/ Stealth/ Lockpick. Longbow shouldn't have much problem with this if you save the diifficult act 2 fights for the end, since you get so many combat points from Arena and all the sidequests. You can also use steel arrows/ liquid fire/ nets/ bolas/ drugs for the harder fights.

 

[bati]

Another point re bows that I'd like to bring up is the hit chance at point blank - I'm not sure if the estimated calcs are wrong but I'm hitting way too frequently given the numbers I'm looking at. I'm talking solid 6-7/10 hits when the estimate is 35-40%. In any case, longbow is quite strong, but I too sometimes wish I had 12 AP for two fast shots, at least in the opening round so I could poison two targets. But that's more of a playstyle difference that favors xbows + high alchemy. Besides, the armor that you can buy in Temple district from Ordu traider is capped at 11 AP anyway.

edit: What would be the best stat to increase with jars, assuming a 5/9/4/8/7/7 start? I'm thinking STR but some extra HP would also be nice.

 

[bati]

Goddamn, axe + block is bulldozer mode. I'm not sure I'll be able to go back to dodge builds after this. Both guardians got stomped into dirt and I only had 5 axe 8 block and 5 CS at that point. Using the THC axe from Trade District trader (though I think the one from Temple District is better once you pump your Axe skill) + the shield from the vendor one stall down from the guy who sells the axe.

Has anyone tried a light armor block build? Maybe a sword, Ordu vendor armor and Kadmos' shield since it's light. Ideally a thief for melee hit chance (and also because IG questline kinda sucks), 6/10/5/8/7/4 or 8/8/5/8/7/4 . I'd be hesitant to drop CON any lower, even 35hp is borderline for melee. As thief you also get access to 2 canisters so that would bring CON to 6 min and the other stat could go into STR.

 

[Skittles]

Goddamn, axe + block is bulldozer mode.

Fuck yeah.

Has anyone tried a light armor block build? Maybe a sword, Ordu vendor armor and Kadmos' shield since it's light. Ideally a thief for melee hit chance (and also because IG questline kinda sucks), 6/10/5/8/7/4 or 8/8/5/8/7/4 . I'd be hesitant to drop CON any lower, even 35hp is borderline for melee. As thief you also get access to 2 canisters so that would bring CON to 6 min and the other stat could go into STR.

How light is light? I'll frequently use the manica sold by the arena vendor --> Kadmos' manica --> Power Armour on "light" armour runs, both dodgers and blockers. Otherwise, I think making sure you can craft armour to maximize your penalty reductions and your AP is the way to go. That's the best way to ensure you've got the highest DR without compromising a high AP.

As for stats, I think 6/10/6/8/6/4 is fine, too, if you're worried about HP. I find 40HP pretty comfortable so long as you're taking your defensive skills seriously. The slight drop in INT ultimately means you might delay investing in critical strike (so you only have two combat skills) if you want to invest in non-combat skills, but if you're completing every quest you can, I think it works out fine.

 

[bati]

Light = 4-8 armor penalty, I suppose, at least until I eventually get PA. The main reason is that I can't be bothered to swap out gear when it's time to sneak and most of the heavier armors come with a pretty steep sneak penalty. Also I just remembered that the Ordu vendor armor has an AP cap of 11 which puts a dent in my 10 dex plans - I suppose Kadmos' Manica would be a good alternative but I don't like how it makes the character look (same reason I wear a hood instead of some actual protection on my rogue characters ). I also don't want to go lower than 7 INT, right now I'm playing an IG with 6 INT and had to skip a lot of INT checks - couldn't even deal with Abyss because I didn't have Feng's pointers. As for crafting - 6 is doable and mostly used for story purposes, anything more and I'll have to compromise on other skills - I'd probably have to forego persuasion and only stick to streetwise which might not be the worst idea since I'm going 4 CHA anyway.

 

[Jason Liang]

Assassin Hybrid with Longbow 5/9/4/8/7/7, Teron run

I. Character Creation

Spoiler

II. After Freebie Points
- Coltan training
- Fulvio training
- Loot Inn
- Loot Feng
- Loot Blacksmith
- Loot Lady Camilla

body count-
Assassin prelude
1. merchant
2. mercenary guard (cs)

III. Before Aurelian Outpost
- Show Gracias' map to Feng
- Assassin quest 1 (+1 Word of Honor)
- Aziz training (+10 cs)
- Get Aemolas' quest
- Palace infiltration
- Dellar training
- Let Cassius live
- Feng training (+15 sp to trading)
- Find and kill Rhakaro

body count-
Assassin quest 1
3. girl spy
4. old man spy
Palace infiltration
5. palace guard [gate] (cs)
6. palace guard [stone tower stairs] (cs)
7. palace guard [roof] (cs)
8. palace guard [palace hallway] (cs)
Shantytown
9. Rhakaro

IV. After clearing Aurelian Outpost
- Give Galbo's Ring to Antidas
- Cassius joins Antidas; Feng flees Teron

body count-
Aurelian outpost (outside)
10. Aurelian guard (cs)
11. Aurelian axeman
12. Aurelian Decanus
13. Aurelian crossbowman
Aurelian outpost (inside)
14. Aurelian spearman
15. Aurelian guard
16. worker
17. worker
18. worker
19. worker

V. After clearing Bandit camp (Terminator title)
- Cassius training (+15 sp to lore)
- Antidas training
- Feng's map (+10 sp to lore)

body count-
Bandit camp
20. Esbenus (cs)
21. bandit axeman
22. bandit swordsman
23. bandit spearman
24. bandit archer
25. bandit archer

VI. All Teron sidequests and fights cleared (before Assassin quest 2)
- Squatter tower
- Loot Thessalos
- Win bet against Lucius

body count-
Gang-
26. gang leader (cs)
27. gang thug
28. gang thug
29. gang thug
Livia's gang-
30. Livia
31. Ordu
32. Thug
Shantytown kebab thief-
33. Teron guard (cs)
Miltidas' thugs-
34. Thug axeman
35. Thug swordsman

VII. All Teron cleared (except Aemolas' village)

body count-
Assassin quest 2
36. Imperial guard (cs)
37. Imperial guard
38. Imperial guard
Assassin quest 3
39. Imperial guard
40. Imperial guard
41. Imperial guard
42. Centurion

Analysis

Spoiler

combat skill total: 45 points (-80 consumed) (+48 generic skill pts) = +13 balance
+ 30 cs character creation
+ 15 cs from battles
-> +2: Aurelian outpost (outside), bandit camp, Livia's gang, Imperial Guard finale (inside)
-> +1: Aurelian spies, Rhakaro, Aurelian outpost (inside), Teron gang, Miltiades' thugs, Imperial Guard attack, Imperial Guard finale (outside)

civil skill total: 177 points (-220 consumed)(+47 generic skill pts) = +4 balance
+ 50 civ character creation
+ 80 civ training
-> +5 Coltan training (alchemy)
-> +10 Feng's lockpick treatise (lockpicking)
-> +10 Feng's history book (lore)
-> +10 Blacksmith's manual (crafting)
-> +5 Etiquette scroll (etiquette)
-> +15 Feng training (trading)
-> +15 Cassius training (lore)
-> +10 Antidas training (lore)
+ 47 civ skill use
-> + 19 lockpicking [5] (+11 inn, +1 Feng, +2 blacksmith,+1 Camilla, +1 palace, +3 Thessalos)
-> + 13 sneak [5] (+7 inn, +1 Feng, +2 blacksmith, +1 Camilla, +2 Thessalos)
-> + 5 crafting [int+crafting=11] (+5 Palace display)
-> + 3 traps [5] (+1 inn, +2 Thessalos)
-> + 3 persuade [2] (+2 Assassin quest 1, +1 Nobleman)
-> + 2 impersonate [2] (+2 Assassin quest 2)
-> + 2 streetwise [3] (+1 Feng, +1 Lucius [also PER check])

Generic skill total: 137 (-48 to combat) (-47 to civil) =+42 balance
+10 Show Gracius' map to Feng
+5 Infiltrate palace
+2 Lady Camilla's necklace
+2 Help Aemolas
+2 Deal with Cassius
+2 Galbo's Ring (Feng is still Antidas' loremaster)
+2 Squatter tower (trick the squatters)
+2 Shantytown kebab thief (Assassin option)
+2 Miltiades ambush (persuade the nobleman to leave)
+10 Solve Aurelian outpost
+10 Solve Bandit camp
+10 Show Gracius' map to Antidas
+10 Assassin prelude
+15 Assassin quest 1
+15 Assassin quest 2
+15 Assassin quest 3
+3 explore Aurelian outpost
+3 explore Bandit camp
+17 Intelligence bonus (7)

+300 skill points consumed
+59 Balance
- 80 Character creation
= 279 skill points gained in Teron (+15 combat skill, +129 civil skill, +138 generic skill)