Best S.T.A.L.K.E.R game?

[NecroLord]

It's a tough one. SoC actually has enemies! CoP feels so empty, and seriously lacking combat with other stalkers/military which you get plenty satisfaction with in SoC. This is a shame because the combat & AI is pretty good for what it is, and even more so a shame because CoP has lots of nice guns & upgrades. OK So it has its fill of mutant enemies, but they almost only spawn in pussy locations (main road and points of interest) in predictable ways. You can traverse much of the nice open worlds without a scratch just by avoiding the few spawn points which you quickly come to recognize. A-Life my ass.

Further thoughts regarding pros and cons:

CoP feels more complete as a FP/RPG-lite of sorts, SoC did always feel like it had a little something mising, but it wasn't missing the basics (lots of grueling combat).
Burers are a neat concept but in execution annoying to actually fight. they shouldn't be raising their shield THAT MUCH.
Both games throw far too many grenades & ammo at you. Probably is very easy to do a grenade-only playthrough, at least in CoP, and that is bad.
Gunslinger mod for CoP is fucking rad and may edge out CoP as the winner.
The story in 1 is best.
CoP fixed the annoying stash system of SoC.
I prefer the atmosphere of CoP. The higher degree of polish, brutal systems like emissions, and more menacing soundtrack helps with that. Though the atmosphere of SoC is no slouch.
CoP Pipyrat location is too short/underdeveloped. Game in general is too short while SoC it doesn't feel that way so much.
Upgrade system, emissions, anomalies redesigned are all big improvements to the formula.

Almost impossble to decide. Deeper systems, better concepts/more fullfilled overarching vision of CoP, or SoC for its originality and it actually having adequate combat which is hugely important (also a more cohesive story for whatever that is worth).

 

[Gerrard]

and you're alone.

Yeah you're alone after you killed the 600 people on the way.

 

[None]

and you're alone.

Yeah you're alone after you killed the 600 people on the way.

Yeah I didn't mean that Strelok is the only person in the Zone. You missed the point.

 

[NecroLord]

Something to brighten up the thread.
At least Clear Sky gave us this masterpiece.

 

[Iucounu]

And Ukrainian reggae:

 

[ghostlife]

Clear Sky is amazing after you get out of the extremely tedious intro area. The other 2 games are still better & have more mods.

 

[Iucounu]

Upgrade system, emissions, anomalies redesigned are all big improvements to the formula.

All of that was present in CS already, CoP mostly adds unnecessary things (like buggy night vision scopes), or neuters the existing mechanics.

Here's an example. To increase carrying capacity in CS you can equip artifacts like Goldfish for a +30kg bonus. But first you must:

1. Buy a proper suit, and upgrade it for environmental protection and more artifact containers. Upgrading requires finding the right technician, the right flash drive with upgrade data, and money.
2. Obtain a top-tier artifact detector.
3. Find anomalies and search them for the artifact. Only a couple Goldfish appear in the entire game.
4. Carefully tease out the artifact from the anomaly without getting killed.
5. Find and equip anti-radiation artifacts to offset the radiation from your new Goldfish (the same way as in steps 3-4).

..all in all a rather intricate set of challenges.

How do you increase carrying capacity in CoP? Just take the drug Hercules, which gives you a +20kg bonus for 300 seconds, has no side effects and can easily be found (even for free in the doctor's office). Meanwhile the Goldfish in CoP only gives you a +12kg bonus.

 

[Gerrard]

Artifacts were OP in CS like how the drugs were op in CoP. The health regen ones are so strong that you can run them instead of countering the radiation, the health regen will just outheal the damage.
CoP improved the upgrade system by not locking you into 1 of 2 paths for every assault rifle.

 

[Ash]

Upgrade system, emissions, anomalies redesigned are all big improvements to the formula.

All of that was present in CS already, CoP mostly adds unnecessary things (like buggy night vision scopes), or neuters the existing mechanics.

Here's an example. To increase carrying capacity in CS you can equip artifacts like Goldfish for a +30kg bonus. But first you must:

1. Buy a proper suit, and upgrade it for environmental protection and more artifact containers. Upgrading requires finding the right technician, the right flash drive with upgrade data, and money.
2. Obtain a top-tier artifact detector.
3. Find anomalies and search them for the artifact. Only a couple Goldfish appear in the entire game.
4. Carefully tease out the artifact from the anomaly without getting killed.
5. Find and equip anti-radiation artifacts to offset the radiation from your new Goldfish (the same way as in steps 3-4).

..all in all a rather intricate set of challenges.

How do you increase carrying capacity in CoP? Just take the drug Hercules, which gives you a +20kg bonus for 300 seconds, has no side effects and can easily be found (even for free in the doctor's office). Meanwhile the Goldfish in CoP only gives you a +12kg bonus.

Yeah but CS is buggy and rehashes a significant portion of SoC's level design, hence why few people are even mentioning it here. I appreciate the new it brought but the Stalker games are exploration-heavy and the zone is the main character, so rehashing so much of SoC (with very few changes in those levels also) is a big fail.

 

[RoSoDude]

I must have forgotten to take my schizo pills when I was playing Clear Sky because it ended up being my favorite (note that I played SoC and CS very lightly modded with ZRP/SRP). I think every STALKER game is simultaneously flawed and stellar, just in completely different aspects. There's a theoretical superior STALKER game that could be achieved by combining the strongest elements of each, but the modding community is apparently too busy turning all the textures gray and adding a gazillion vendor trash items for m'immersion to produce it.

I wrote about my impressions of SoC here and CS/CoP here. In short:

• Shadow of Chernobyl easily has the best campaign in terms of areas, mission variety, pacing as well as the most robust artifact system, but the worst shooting mechanics and boring equipment customization and gear/economy
• Clear Sky has the best economy and equipment customization by far and the most entertaining shootouts, but is a mixed bag as far as the campaign goes (new areas are great but reused SoC areas are filler content for buggy faction wars)
• Call of Pripyat has the best shooting mechanics, simulated systems, exploration and artifact hunting, and side missions, but the equipment system is less interesting than CS and the main campaign is kinda bland with a huge lack of human firefights

Shadow of Chernobyl's problems predominantly come from it being in development hell for years and cutting most of its planned mechanics/systems just to ship, but it definitely maintains the most foreboding atmosphere and the best balance of content regardless. The "hobo phase" sucks because your gun accuracy is so poor, not because of any interesting resource scarcity, but from there the game gets more and more fun, with tons of variety in bunker shootouts, mutant-infested labs, and navigational challenges with patches of anomalies. You're steadily introduced to new areas with tougher factions as you pick up stronger gear and I even think the final missions in Pripyat and CNPP are a blast (I joined C-Consciousness so I didn't have to slog through the escape sequence). I think people have genuinely forgotten just how fucking bad the gunplay is, though, particularly the hidden damage penalty for firing in bursts that requires waiting 1-3 seconds between shots to actually get lethal headshot multipliers. The fact that artifacts are just laying around all over the place also makes the economy incredibly easy to break in no time, except there's also fuck all interesting to buy from shops until you can afford an exo-suit for the final mission, especially since better free gear is waiting for you in the next area.

Clear Sky has an absolute baller weapon upgrade system, which is really the main reason I love the game. Nearly every weapon has two mutually exclusive upgrade paths, gearing the weapon more towards CQC assault or towards long-range sniping. The paths are organized in a pyramidal structure, such that you have to buy all of the binary choice "root" upgrades in each path before you can access the next column. The cool part is that you can decide to buck the intended schema and mix and match upgrades in lower tiers -- I was rocking a silenced Viper SMG tuned for hybrid accuracy, handling, and recoil reduction for most of the game as my bread and butter weapon. The upgrades are reasonably expensive; CS has a more functional economy than any other vanilla STALKER game, which along with the exclusive faction rewards incentivizes doing side content for cash. Buying/earning new armor was a lot more significant with the varying number of artifact slots, though sadly the artifact effect minmaxing was boiled down to balancing against a radiation penalty which excessively limited your build options. Clear Sky also made bleeding and radiation hardcore as fuck which made the economy more relevant as well. The Swamp, Red Forest, and Limansk are excellent new areas (some of my favorites in the series) with some impressive shootouts, but most of the reused areas from SoC are just staging areas for the AI factions to wander around and get into fights, plus you don't visit any labs which were the highlight of SoC. The final mission in CNPP is unforgiveable garbage, and the Cordon machine gun segment is just dumb.

Unfortunately the upgrade system was gutted in Call of Pripyat, replaced with 90% linear upgrade paths for every weapon. Everything is so cheap that once you finally find the tools to unlock new upgrade tiers, you'll be able to purchase everything in the tier instantly. Finding the tools is a huge pain in the ass compared to finding flash drives for unique final upgrades in CS (which was much more optional), since there are only 2 tools to find in the world for each of the 3 tiers and there is literally no guidance about where to look. You can ask random NPCs about where to find the tools, but they'll just say "IDK, have you looked up your own ass lol?" There are a bunch of other positive changes, though, like consumables granting status effects, A-life being far more relevant to roaming gameplay in the hub zones, substantially more involved artifact hunting with great level design to unlock the potential of the refined detector system from CS, as well as great side missions with choice and consequence mixing combat, platforming, navigation, stealth, AI manipulation etc. rather than the procedural "fetch me 20 pseudodog tails" or "kill these faction guys" crap of the other games. What really disappointed me was how rarely you were actually forced into fights with human enemies; the bandits start out neutral for some reason (even after betraying them in one of the first missions), and most of the resistance you face when wandering around is from mutants or zombified stalkers. I liked all of the Monolith encounters leading up to and within Pripyat (plus the lab section beneath the hotel, I had missed those), but the final mission just peters out in an awkward way right as it's getting good.

I think a preference for any of the 3 games is valid, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Though if you didn't like CS just because of the bleeding and the poor starting accuracy of the guns (which can be fixed with a bit of cash in the starting area), you're a loser. Also, Master difficulty doesn't "fix bullet sponges", you don't have to play on that shit (I did for all 3 games and it was a mistake).

 

[Ash]

Check out Gunslinger for CoP. In addition to making the guns feel a lot nicer, it also adds more upgrades for them and opposing upgrade paths.

 

[NecroLord]

Check out Gunslinger for CoP. In addition to making the guns feel a lot nicer, it also adds more upgrades for them and opposing upgrade paths.

Does it add new weapons/dramatically alter the weapons and gunplay?

 

[Baron Dupek]

Check out Gunslinger for CoP. In addition to making the guns feel a lot nicer, it also adds more upgrades for them and opposing upgrade paths.

Does it add new weapons/dramatically alter the weapons and gunplay?

No and Yes.
also make psi mutants obnoxious if you try to fight them in close combat - pray you find one in the scope of your sniper rifle first

 

[Iucounu]

Upgrade system, emissions, anomalies redesigned are all big improvements to the formula.

All of that was present in CS already, ...

Yeah but CS is buggy

Now you're moving the goalposts. ;-)

I suspect that when CS was newly released, many unfairly compared the unpatched version with the already patched SoC. But CS is not much buggier than SoC:

CS may crash at random (so it's best to make frequent named saves just in case) and has a buggy last level. The Faction War bugs are to a large extent misunderstandings.

SoC will crash if you stay too long in Pripyat, and NPCs frequently spawn dead inside burning barrels.

and rehashes a significant portion of SoC's level design

I wonder if this will be a complaint with Stalker 2 as well... To me the rehashing adds familiarity, and the levels look, feel, sound and play different enough.

 

[Iucounu]

I wrote about my impressions of SoC here

Nice reviews!

"Honestly I think the game would be better with higher accuracy on the shitty starter guns"

One trick is to lure the Military to attack the Rookie Village the first thing you do. You can hide in an attic until the fighting ends, and once the Military has left you might be able to loot an AKM if one of them died.

"I actually like the cache system in SoC, where stashes only contain loot after you obtain their GPS coordinates from bodies."

This also adds a time dimension to the cache appearances, as if NPCs create them at different moments during your playthrough; as opposed to CoP's caches that all exist from the start, as if all NPCs had already stopped making caches when your playthough begins. The brief PDA notes that come with each cache coordinate in SoC and CS also adds a nice immersion touch.

"in SoC it was honestly nice to have clear direction on when exploring was worth my time. Otherwise I’d feel an incessant compulsion to poke around every corner looking for tiny briefcases, rather than getting on with my life."

And without that compulsion, you can still just walk in a straight line and several caches will appear in your path, they're that numerous. SoC does create a compulsion for finding the best artifacts though...

the hidden damage penalty for firing in bursts that requires waiting 1-3 seconds between shots to actually get lethal headshot multipliers.

I think that mechanic is mean to simulate recoil, but it's mostly a problem with guns fired in too long full auto bursts. IIRC, the Obokan's 2-shot mode is accurate, maybe also the Viper's and TRs301's 3-shot modes? I only use full auto in very close combat situations, like turning around corners indoors, and even then only if I lack a fast-shooting combat shotgun.

there's also fuck all interesting to buy from shops until you can afford an exo-suit for the final mission, especially since better free gear is waiting for you in the next area.

The best exosuit (with upgraded night vision) can be found in Fang's grave in Pripyat. I almost never buy anything either in SoC, except for maybe ammo.

Unfortunately the upgrade system was gutted in Call of Pripyat, replaced with 90% linear upgrade paths for every weapon. Everything is so cheap that once you finally find the tools to unlock new upgrade tiers, you'll be able to purchase everything in the tier instantly.

True.

Finding the tools is a huge pain in the ass compared to finding flash drives for unique final upgrades in CS (which was much more optional), since there are only 2 tools to find in the world for each of the 3 tiers and there is literally no guidance about where to look.

True.

There are a bunch of other positive changes, though, like consumables granting status effects,

But is that a positive thing, when those consumables require no effort to obtain?

A-life being far more relevant to roaming gameplay in the hub zones

In what way?

substantially more involved artifact hunting with great level design to unlock the potential of the refined detector system from CS

I think it's less involved in CoP: anomalies like Vortex and Psy are often less dangerous, while the cheap drugs offset much of the harm caused by others. The Svarog anomaly detector removes the final remnant of a challenge, so that you don't even have to throw bolts. :-(

as well as great side missions with choice and consequence mixing combat, platforming, navigation, stealth, AI manipulation etc. rather than the procedural "fetch me 20 pseudodog tails" or "kill these faction guys" crap of the other games.

I agree they are better written in CoP, but alas that doesn't result in better gameplay. For example, although the CoP side quests The Hit, Transaction and Duty Warehouse are chained together with multiple outcomes, the actual gameplay in them are just a few minor firefights. Although the quest writing in SoC or CS is much simpler, you get more gameplay as a result. For example, helping Freedom against Duty in SoC makes all Duty squads in the Bar Area choke point hostile, potentially resulting in glorious firefights every time you pass by afterwards. CoP by design can't have such choke points due to its open world (the tunnel to Pripyat could have been an exception, if only you were allowed to revisit it a second time).

 

[430am]

The first one definitely. The labs, the locations and factions, and especially the last section were just too good. CoP is cool too, but I'll take the first game any time.

 

[Gerrard]

You can ask random NPCs about where to find the tools, but they'll just say "IDK, have you looked up your own ass lol?

You have any more expert opinions you would like to share with us?

What really disappointed me was how rarely you were actually forced into fights with human enemies; the bandits start out neutral for some reason (even after betraying them in one of the first missions), and most of the resistance you face when wandering around is from mutants or zombified stalkers.

It's almost like people shooting each other on sight is a completely fucked up idea that makes absolutely no sense and would lead to nobody being able to go out into the open and do anything without a full armed squad. Also bandits are neutral in CS as well.

 

[RoSoDude]

the hidden damage penalty for firing in bursts that requires waiting 1-3 seconds between shots to actually get lethal headshot multipliers.

I think that mechanic is mean to simulate recoil, but it's mostly a problem with guns fired in too long full auto bursts. IIRC, the Obokan's 2-shot mode is accurate, maybe also the Viper's and TRs301's 3-shot modes? I only use full auto in very close combat situations, like turning around corners indoors, and even then only if I lack a fast-shooting combat shotgun.

Okay, but we already had two other ways recoil was simulated, did we really need a third? Your aim kicks upward and you lose accuracy in bursts, so losing out massively on damage too is just a pain, and makes spaced out headshots the only way to play.

substantially more involved artifact hunting with great level design to unlock the potential of the refined detector system from CS

I think it's less involved in CoP: anomalies like Vortex and Psy are often less dangerous, while the cheap drugs offset much of the harm caused by others. The Svarog anomaly detector removes the final remnant of a challenge, so that you don't even have to throw bolts. :-(

Nah, every anomaly field is designed with navigation, platforming, and hazard avoidance in mind, they're quite nice. Instead of just dotting springboards and electrical anomalies everywhere, you'd have entire pockets of areas dedicated to an artifact challenge, like the boiling geyser hill, the burning farmstead, the swamp with gravity anomalies, the oakpine tree formation you have to climb, etc. Way more memorable and interesting than the majority of setups in the other games. SoC had navigation and platforming to get some stashes, but rarely integrated with anomaly fields or artifact hunting. I agree about the Svarog detector, but my complaint is moreso how easy it was to get better detectors rather than it existing at all (it'd be fine as a super endgame reward). As for the consumable items, yeah they were a little too abundant, but I still find them mildly interesting as an option especially before you're able to get a decent artifact setup.

as well as great side missions with choice and consequence mixing combat, platforming, navigation, stealth, AI manipulation etc. rather than the procedural "fetch me 20 pseudodog tails" or "kill these faction guys" crap of the other games.

I agree they are better written in CoP, but alas that doesn't result in better gameplay. For example, although the CoP side quests The Hit, Transaction and Duty Warehouse are chained together with multiple outcomes, the actual gameplay in them are just a few minor firefights. Although the quest writing in SoC or CS is much simpler, you get more gameplay as a result. For example, helping Freedom against Duty in SoC makes all Duty squads in the Bar Area choke point hostile, potentially resulting in glorious firefights every time you pass by afterwards. CoP by design can't have such choke points due to its open world (the tunnel to Pripyat could have been an exception, if only you were allowed to revisit it a second time).

CoP side missions aren't good just as a function of writing, they also have extensive encounter scripting and generally require thought as to how to approach them. I agree there's not enough combat in general, but that's a somewhat separate critique IMO.

You can ask random NPCs about where to find the tools, but they'll just say "IDK, have you looked up your own ass lol?

You have any more expert opinions you would like to share with us?

Fair enough that there are actually some helpful responses, but there are just as many useless ones (dialogue source):

"How the hell should I know? I don't need tools to convince stalkers to cough up, just so you know... Relax, I'm just kidding."
"That's a good question, man. Let's think about this one. Where do you find tools outside the Zone? Now, if you got half a brain, you buy them in a store... If you don't, you look for the tools and a brain in a workshop. Right? It's the same thing in the Zone - you have to look in the same places. It's that simple, stalker!"
"Tools? Listen, man, is that code for something? There's no pigs here or anything, you can speak freely... Oh, you're serious? In that case I really don't know."
"To be honest, the last place I saw decent tools was in Sidorovich's bunker at the Cordon. Sure, you have to pay for them, but they're new and not all that expensive either."
"You know, buddy, I didn't come to the Zone to search for tools. Think about it, how much use is a radioactive hammer?"

Forgive me for no longer checking after getting 5 repeated answers like this. And it's equally likely that the tips I could have gotten would have just led me to a set of tools I already had. The system is stupid either way, since it necessitates finding a needle in a haystack to unlock 1/3 of the entire upgrade system, which makes it a requirement rather than an exploration reward. Clear Sky just gated upgrades with money, unless you really wanted to get a particular final upgrade in which case you could buy stash coordinates to look for them.

What really disappointed me was how rarely you were actually forced into fights with human enemies; the bandits start out neutral for some reason (even after betraying them in one of the first missions), and most of the resistance you face when wandering around is from mutants or zombified stalkers.

It's almost like people shooting each other on sight is a completely fucked up idea that makes absolutely no sense and would lead to nobody being able to go out into the open and do anything without a full armed squad. Also bandits are neutral in CS as well.

Bandits start neutral to you in Clear Sky, but they also rob you at gunpoint the second you enter the Garbage, as well at other checkpoints. If you resist and shoot back, they become hostile for the rest of the game. It only stops if you decide to join them, which makes Duty and Loners hostile to you (this sucks more than getting mugged or dealing with hostile bandits) and also breaks the main mission where you are assisted by Loners if you don't do that first. For all intents and purposes they start hostile, because they're dickhead bandits who want to rob you. Besides, in Call of Pripyat the bandits remain neutral even after you betray them in The Hit mission, which is just absurd. Fair enough if they start off neutral, but they didn't give a shit about me until I started chucking grenades from a tower inside their base after taking a mission to eliminate them. It doesn't have to be bandits anyway, I just wanted at least double the amount of human combat that I got in Call of Pripyat, which predominantly pits you against mutants and zombies that are nowhere near as interesting to fight.

For the record, I totally agree with your earlier post about SoC's shitty gunplay, the unmodded game makes a really bad impression until Agroprom or so, or even Rostok if you have a low tolerance for the mediocre AK's.

 

[Gerrard]

Bandits start neutral to you in Clear Sky, but they also rob you at gunpoint the second you enter the Garbage, as well at other checkpoints. If you resist and shoot back, they become hostile for the rest of the game. It only stops if you decide to join them, which makes Duty and Loners hostile to you (this sucks more than getting mugged or dealing with hostile bandits) and also breaks the main mission where you are assisted by Loners if you don't do that first. For all intents and purposes they start hostile, because they're dickhead bandits who want to rob you.

You can avoid the bandits at the main garbage entrance by running to the right, just watch out for the anomalies. Or you might get lucky and the loners will take over the entrance before you even get there.
Even if you kill one squad I'm pretty sure is not enough to turn the entire faction hostile either way, unless you've already attacked them in Cordon. By immediately turning bandits hostile you're cucking yourself out of a lot of money, SEVA upgrades, and a trader that sells 9x39 guns right at the start of the game.

It's also quite ironic that the Loner faction war reward is a SEVA suit which you then cannot fully upgrade.

 

[Iucounu]

Instead of just dotting springboards and electrical anomalies everywhere, you'd have entire pockets of areas dedicated to an artifact challenge, like the boiling geyser hill, the burning farmstead, the swamp with gravity anomalies, the oakpine tree formation you have to climb, etc. Way more memorable and interesting than the majority of setups in the other games. SoC had navigation and platforming to get some stashes, but rarely integrated with anomaly fields or artifact hunting.

I was mostly comparing with CS's anomalies, that I feel are more challenging (nice examples can be found in the Red Forest mine's toilet room, or the Witcher's Circle anomaly). But SoC also has some relatively challenging artifact hunting on top of the Garbage hills.

CoP side missions aren't good just as a function of writing, they also have extensive encounter scripting and generally require thought as to how to approach them. I agree there's not enough combat in general, but that's a somewhat separate critique IMO.

Yeah I lumped all that together as writing. For me combat (or general gameplay) is related to this, since I'd rather go find a dog tail if the journey to the dog makes it worthwhile, and in SoC's and CS's living gameworld that is often the case. Most games from the last decade went the opposite direction, with extensive plot writing followed by stale scripted (combat) gameplay. CoP is still better than average in that regard.

Forgive me for no longer checking after getting 5 repeated answers like this. And it's equally likely that the tips I could have gotten would have just led me to a set of tools I already had. The system is stupid either way, since it necessitates finding a needle in a haystack to unlock 1/3 of the entire upgrade system, which makes it a requirement rather than an exploration reward.

I don't think there are any clues on where to find the 2nd and 3rd tier tools. Also they are only found in the subsequent levels, so searching in Zaton is futile.

BTW, it's also odd and lazy writing with two Technicians that both need the exact same sets of tools, just as odd and lazy as having enemies share the same base in both Zaton and Jupiter. When I entered Pripyat I was half expecting the Military sharing base with Monolith...

It only stops if you decide to join them, which makes Duty and Loners hostile to you (this sucks more than getting mugged or dealing with hostile bandits)

I'd say it makes the game more interesting. Everybody should replay CS joining each faction in turn (and none), and why not try jumping between multiple faction in a single game?

and also breaks the main mission where you are assisted by Loners if you don't do that first.

Are you thinking of the Yantar factory mission? Can't remember how that's handled in the game.

Besides, in Call of Pripyat the bandits remain neutral even after you betray them in The Hit mission, which is just absurd. Fair enough if they start off neutral, but they didn't give a shit about me until I started chucking grenades from a tower inside their base after taking a mission to eliminate them.

That's a good example of how the reputation system is ruined or absent in CoP. In CS you even have an inventory screen showing your current reputation stats towards all factions.

It doesn't have to be bandits anyway

Yes in previous games there were also generally hostile Mercs and Military (with a couple of exceptions), in CoP it feels like everybody are friends with the protagonist. In any case case a shooter game needs shooting, so the setting should encourage that. That said I could envision a game more focused on survival taking place in the Zone, similar to Soma or The Long Dark, where you're unarmed and must use stealth to survive.

 

[thesecret1]

I liked CoP better for all the added polish, though I never replay the vanilla (I found it kinda meh) and solely entertain myself with mods – I think SoC was better if we only discuss vanilla (the story and locations were just better).

 

[Ash]

Check out Gunslinger for CoP. In addition to making the guns feel a lot nicer, it also adds more upgrades for them and opposing upgrade paths.

Does it add new weapons/dramatically alter the weapons and gunplay?

No and Yes.
also make psi mutants obnoxious if you try to fight them in close combat - pray you find one in the scope of your sniper rifle first

Everything done to the weapons and inventory (hundreds of subtle changes) is pretty much pure gold, save a nitpick here and there. Everything done to the mutants, which thankfully is very little (three things?), is shit, but novel shit I guess.

Upgrade system, emissions, anomalies redesigned are all big improvements to the formula.

All of that was present in CS already, ...

Yeah but CS is buggy

Now you're moving the goalposts. ;-)

To be fair, I didn't get all that far. Because the game (with a patching mod installed) hard-locked me with a quest-based crash. So, I will not speak any further on the matter of CS as I have not completed it.

 

[Iucounu]

To be fair, I didn't get all that far. Because the game (with a patching mod installed) hard-locked me with a quest-based crash. So, I will not speak any further on the matter of CS as I have not completed it.

That could be due to the mod, but it could also be caused by a corrupt save at an earlier stage. That's why it's safest to make named saves, for example every time before going to a different level.

 

[Hag]

Forgive me for no longer checking after getting 5 repeated answers like this. And it's equally likely that the tips I could have gotten would have just led me to a set of tools I already had. The system is stupid either way, since it necessitates finding a needle in a haystack to unlock 1/3 of the entire upgrade system, which makes it a requirement rather than an exploration reward. Clear Sky just gated upgrades with money, unless you really wanted to get a particular final upgrade in which case you could buy stash coordinates to look for them.

I found the requirement to find tools one of the most stupid thing in CoP. Not only it is a gameplay pain, it simply does not make any sense : the Zone is full of people moving smuggling guns, meds, radios, various electronics, food, whatever, and you have to go the devil's ass to find a screwdriver ? Give me a break. Tools are one of the most common thing in any rural place. Every barn, every truck, every outpost has at least a complete set of tool, and all the military base should have a complete workshop with machine tools. But no, "here we are in our powersuits with NVG and modern rifles, but we can't seem to find the spanner". What the hell.

 

[Ash]

Forgive me for no longer checking after getting 5 repeated answers like this. And it's equally likely that the tips I could have gotten would have just led me to a set of tools I already had. The system is stupid either way, since it necessitates finding a needle in a haystack to unlock 1/3 of the entire upgrade system, which makes it a requirement rather than an exploration reward. Clear Sky just gated upgrades with money, unless you really wanted to get a particular final upgrade in which case you could buy stash coordinates to look for them.

I found the requirement to find tools one of the most stupid thing in CoP. Not only it is a gameplay pain, it simply does not make any sense : the Zone is full of people moving smuggling guns, meds, radios, various electronics, food, whatever, and you have to go the devil's ass to find a screwdriver ? Give me a break. Tools are one of the most common thing in any rural place. Every barn, every truck, every outpost has at least a complete set of tool, and all the military base should have a complete workshop with machine tools. But no, "here we are in our powersuits with NVG and modern rifles, but we can't seem to find the spanner". What the hell.

And more importantly as another point of criticism, it doesn't break the rules of reality you describe for any notable gameplay merit: higher tier upgrades are gated semi-effectively by cash requirements, as well as the weapons/armor progression (guns found in zaton are outclassed by guns of jupiter which is outclassed by guns of Pipyrat). It would arguably result in better gameplay having no tool requirements as you'd be able to actually enjoy a fully upgraded AKS-74u before it quickly gets outclassed by later game weaponry.
About the only purpose the tools serve is to make exploration solidly rewarding and exciting, but cash/artifacts/new guns/stashes etc together is probably just about enough to achieve that without tools anyway.

If we're removing/modding the tools out we probably need to add something of high value in their respective locations (saw mill etc) to make those locations worth exploring.
Oh and the "tools where?" dialogue should be adjusted referring to this replacement item as that is also a worthwhile aspect that encourages actually paying attention to what NPCs say as well as encouraging exhausting dialogue options in a game that desperately needs said encouragement to begin with.