Decline Bethesda Appreciation Thread

[ERYFKRAD]

I guess so. There is nothing else quite like TES. And they are moddable. Chances are if there's something you didn't like, you'll find a mod to fix it.

I don't like the level scaling, the static world, the annoying dialog minigame, the terrible system of catching the player committing crimes, the banal, boring story, the lack of urgency of a freaking demon invasion, the lack of interesting NPCs, the boring character system, and the lack of consequences to any choice made. Is there a mod that fixes this?

Uninstall.exe?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

level scaling, the static world

Huh...

 

[tuluse]

Huh...

Anything interesting is static, random encounters are level scaled.

I'm pretty sure you know this, and just chose to try to make some stupid point about my writing, but fuck you I'm drunk right now.

 

[theSavant]

Strangely, I never saw level scaling as a huge problem, although I can understand people raging about it. But I agree that TES are basically boring worlds. But so is the real world. Getting engaged in interesting stories is like pulling dirt out from the nose. And the main storyline always sucks. Also the RPG system was so bland (at least in Oblivion), that I hadn't even enough patience to make a second walkthrough with a different class/race. And yes, you hardly meet any interesting characters in the game, but so is the real world

That said, I appreciate their work and believe that Skyrim is the best of their series (integrated with all patches, horse combat, spears etc.). At least in the game you can roleplay into characters and actions you can't do in real life. And sometimes you want to play in a bland environment which at the same time offers more freedom than real life with all its bazillions rules and etiquettes. You don't need to follow a predefined path like in e.g. Dark Messiah of Might&Magic, but you can take things in your own pace. You can ignore everyone and everything or you can engage in something. And if you meet someone you don't like then you can just say "fuck you" or kill them, while in real life you must bear them. And don't forget that the environment looks often prettier than when you look outside the window and see an ugly concrete desert which you face mostly every single day.

 

[Commissar Draco]

You can kill anybody you want in Real Life too provided you're some kind of celebrity and/or richfag which Dragonborn is after few hours of playing anyway; living there as Belathor asistant would sack balls far worse than in our 1st/2nd world. Still it is amazing how NPC dialogue from mods made by unpaid amateurs are above work made by Bethpizda; Aside from few celebrity voiced people like Tulius, Ulfric and Esbern I am glad most of people in Skyrim have only barks.

 

[Wilian]

Oblivion runs at 30fps on shitty machine and 30fps on top of the line rigs. It's like magic.

Isn't that what they intended? Equal experience on all platforms. \o/

 

[bussinrounds]

I guess so. There is nothing else quite like TES. And they are moddable. Chances are if there's something you didn't like, you'll find a mod to fix it.

I don't like the level scaling, the static world, the annoying dialog minigame, the terrible system of catching the player committing crimes, the banal, boring story, the lack of urgency of a freaking demon invasion, the lack of interesting NPCs, the boring character system, and the lack of consequences to any choice made. Is there a mod that fixes this?

You forgot about the shitty gameplay/combat

 

[DalekFlay]

Like most things there is a happy medium on scaling. With no scaling at all the world takes on an almost linear level progression, but when everything is scaled there is no danger or risk. I think Skyrim actually found a decent balance, basically deciding difficulty based on elevation, but it could still be improved.

 

[JarlFrank]

I guess so. There is nothing else quite like TES. And they are moddable. Chances are if there's something you didn't like, you'll find a mod to fix it.

I don't like the level scaling, the static world, the annoying dialog minigame, the terrible system of catching the player committing crimes, the banal, boring story, the lack of urgency of a freaking demon invasion, the lack of interesting NPCs, the boring character system, and the lack of consequences to any choice made. Is there a mod that fixes this?

http://www.andoran.com/en/

http://www.sureai.de/projects/enderal/

Both still in development though.

 

[DeepOcean]

I guess so. There is nothing else quite like TES. And they are moddable. Chances are if there's something you didn't like, you'll find a mod to fix it.

I don't like the level scaling, the static world, the annoying dialog minigame, the terrible system of catching the player committing crimes, the banal, boring story, the lack of urgency of a freaking demon invasion, the lack of interesting NPCs, the boring character system, and the lack of consequences to any choice made. Is there a mod that fixes this?

http://www.andoran.com/en/

http://www.sureai.de/projects/enderal/

Both still in development though.

Yep, Enderal has a good chance of comming out as Nehim was released and it was better than Oblivion (something that isn't hard to do.), so they actually have the will to finish a Project eventually. Andoran, I don't know, it have a strong smell of vapourware. If both projects are finished eventually, they are going to be better than Bethesda work by default. Anyone tried Falskaar?

 

[toro]

James Lowe - The Lead Designer - is a force of nature.

 

[DalekFlay]

That facial hair makes him look thinner (in his mind).

 

[adddeed]

I guess so. There is nothing else quite like TES. And they are moddable. Chances are if there's something you didn't like, you'll find a mod to fix it.

I don't like the level scaling, the static world, the annoying dialog minigame, the terrible system of catching the player committing crimes, the banal, boring story, the lack of urgency of a freaking demon invasion, the lack of interesting NPCs, the boring character system, and the lack of consequences to any choice made. Is there a mod that fixes this?

So which game according to you has no level scaling, dynamic world, good crime system, great story, urgency, interesting NPCs, interesting character system, consequences to your choices?

Because these don't bother me in Oblivion, but if there is a game which does it better i'd like to give it a go.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Damn but Gothic is so close to all that. So close.

 

[Rake]

I guess so. There is nothing else quite like TES. And they are moddable. Chances are if there's something you didn't like, you'll find a mod to fix it.

I don't like the level scaling, the static world, the annoying dialog minigame, the terrible system of catching the player committing crimes, the banal, boring story, the lack of urgency of a freaking demon invasion, the lack of interesting NPCs, the boring character system, and the lack of consequences to any choice made. Is there a mod that fixes this?

So which game according to you has no level scaling, dynamic world, good crime system, great story, urgency, interesting NPCs, interesting character system, consequences to your choices?

Because these don't bother me in Oblivion, but if there is a game which does it better i'd like to give it a go.

Fallout/Arcanum?

 

[Lancehead]

http://www.andoran.com/en/

http://www.sureai.de/projects/enderal/

Both still in development though.

Eh, total conversion mods mean you're not really fixing the game but playing an essentially different game.

 

[Rake]

http://www.andoran.com/en/

http://www.sureai.de/projects/enderal/

Both still in development though.

Eh, total conversion mods mean you're not really fixing the game but playing an essentially different game.

That's about the only way Oblivion can be saved though

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Andoran is being made via TES V Toolkit. It has a decent chance to end up vapourware'd

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Huh...

Anything interesting is static, random encounters are level scaled.

I'm pretty sure you know this, and just chose to try to make some stupid point about my writing, but fuck you I'm drunk right now.

Not really, what do you mean by "everything interesting is static"? The thing people complain about is how the world isn't static, because of the level scaling. Even the main quest is scaled, not only hostile fauna in the wild.

Strangely, I never saw level scaling as a huge problem, although I can understand people raging about it.

If you go Kvatch at a low level, people will be panicking about how the soldiers are being overrun by the demonic forces coming out of the portal. Then you look at the portal and the soldiers are one hitting the stunted scamps that come out of it.

 

[tuluse]

Not really, what do you mean by "everything interesting is static"? The thing people complain about is how the world isn't static, because of the level scaling. Even the main quest is scaled, not only hostile fauna in the wild.

The world doesn't react to anything you do in the game. The Oblivion Gates just sit there waiting to be looted and closed. They don't affect the game world in the slightest before being closed, and closing them as no effect.

It's been years since I played the game, so I don't have any other examples, but there are plenty.

The illusion of Cyrodiil being a real place totally collapses for me because no matter what is happen or has happened, the characters will react exactly the same. The quests will be exactly the same. The cities will be exactly the same.

 

[toro]

I guess so. There is nothing else quite like TES. And they are moddable. Chances are if there's something you didn't like, you'll find a mod to fix it.

I don't like the level scaling, the static world, the annoying dialog minigame, the terrible system of catching the player committing crimes, the banal, boring story, the lack of urgency of a freaking demon invasion, the lack of interesting NPCs, the boring character system, and the lack of consequences to any choice made. Is there a mod that fixes this?

So which game according to you has no level scaling, dynamic world, good crime system, great story, urgency, interesting NPCs, interesting character system, consequences to your choices?

Because these don't bother me in Oblivion, but if there is a game which does it better i'd like to give it a go.

Until now Gothic is the closest thing you'll get.

 

[Sunsetspawn]

Because these don't bother me in Oblivion, but if there is a game which does it better i'd like to give it a go.

It's been mentioned already but I'm going to jump on the Gothic bandwagon and say Gothic 2. I'm sure Gothic 1 is just as awesome but I haven't played it. Also, Gothic 2's graphics are almost Oblivion quality, while Gothic 1 is a bit of a step down, if that kind of thing matters to you. I plan on playing Gothic eventually so I can properly weigh in on how it compares.

Anyhow, when people on the codex bitch, cunt, and whine about how much Oblivion sucks the smegma out of horse-forskin, it's because games like Gothic and Gothic 2 exist.

 

[octavius]

Anyhow, when people on the codex bitch, cunt, and whine about how much Oblivion sucks the smegma out of horse-forskin, it's because games like Gothic and Gothic 2 exist.

At least Oblivion doesn't force you to look at your character blocking the 3D view all the time - my pet peeve with Gothic. The non-configurable controls are also quite annoying.
For all it's faults, at least you can modify nearly every aspect of Oblivion to your heart's content.
As much as I dislike Zenimax/Bethesda for going Steam only and for their ridicilously censored/monitored forums, I think Bethesda deserves kudos for the moddability of their games, and for being among the very few developers that AAA RPGs that are not interactive movies.

 

[racofer]

Bethesda only makes modding frameworks now. Their "games" are devoid of anything that remotely resembles a game per se.

Pilling up mods is not my idea of fun. I'm ok with downloading a few to alter some characteristics of my games, but totally a whole bunch of them? I would rather pick something else to play.

 

[Dreaad]

The main problem is that their open world games don't depict an actual 'world' the combination of terrible writing and weird engine/ai programming lets them create theme-parks not worlds. Nothing reacts in a believable manner, nothing changes from 'epic' world events. It's just a landscape with no thought put in as to where cities/dungeons/forests are put "Fuck it lets just put an undead infested ruin next to this little village". Sadly this isn't even hard to fix e.g. something simple like the gothic/risen 1 system of chapters allows you to subtly change locations in the world and update npc behavior and dialog every time a new chapter begins after a big event. Just fucking spend 30 minutes planning a logical map that reflects where people would build a city and where to put ancient ruins filled with bandits. Spend another 30 minutes planning who would live on top of a mountain and who would live by a swamp so that there is a little variation to the communities the player meets rather than copy pasting villages.This is why Fallout: NV can actually be played, there is an internal logic to the placement of shit and mildly unique variations in NPC's from region to region. That's all it would take to elevate Bethesda's recent shit to something playable.

I suppose they almost got it right in Skyrim, but that mild improvement in world structure was horribly ruined by (amazingly) even worse writing than Oblivion. It was so bad that you could read a children's book that made more sense and progressed in a better manner. I know people focus on this a lot.... but a magic guild where you don't have to know any magic? What the fuck is this shit. Or some sort of assassins guild filled with essentially a bunch of semi super-villains most of whom have no skills in assassination and their armor stands out so much you have to wonder why any guards or villagers wouldn't kill them on sight. Or a civil war ... between 20 people. Gothic 3 had a better civil war mechanic than any mod could hope to "fix" for Skyrim.

Bethesda just don't have any creativity or people with an ounce of common sense working for them.