Bethesda Softworks Forces Website to Pull Modding Tool

[Lingwe]

This news is a few days old but I haven't seen any topic about it on the forums yet, and I know that it will make a lot of you feel warm inside.

http://www.tesnexus.com/

Sadly today I have been requested by Bethesda Softworks to pull the mod "Morroblivion" from the site as it breaches the EULA for Oblivion. Matt Grandstaff explained the situation:

"Essentially, we let folks mod our games like Morrowind or Oblivion, but we don’t allow for folks to take content from another game and put it into a new game – even if they own both copies, and even if it's one of our own games."

The situation is unfortunate, as Morroblivion was a great tool I'm sure made with the best of intentions, but the rights to this content belong to Bethesda Softworks and they are perfectly within their rights to make such requests. While I'm pretty liberal when it comes to the content allowed on the site (nudity, violence, etc. etc.) when it comes to copyrights and content ownership I have to draw the line.

Hopefully you can all appreciate the situation. If you believe a file you're looking at is in breach of copyright or takes content from Morrowind, or any other game, please use the "Report this file" feature to inform the staff on the site so it does not potentially affect myself and the site itself.

Thank you.

Update
Before locking a topic on the official forums about Morroblivion, moderator Dogsbody has provided further clarification on the matter:

"There are many reasons why this is so; among others, it is important to protect the original licensor's rights when Bethsoft has licensed a resource to use in a game. That license may allow use of the resource in that game alone, and Bethsoft is duty-bound to prevent the resource from being used in any other game, including their own."

It is evident many users are upset by the decision and many of us, myself included, were wondering why exactly this had to be done. Hopefully this helps patch things up. I stand by the comment that providing this information from the offset, rather than it being weeded out of different people gradually, can only bring good things. Communication communication communication.

"Essentially, we let folks mod our games like Morrowind or Oblivion, but we don’t allow for folks to take content from another game and put it into a new game – even if they own both copies, and even if it's one of our own games"

What sheer lunacy. Bethesda manages to take intellectual property rights to new levels of idiocy. Codex not surprised.

Oh yeah if you were wondering what Morroblivion was it was some program that converted Morrowind meshes and textures into Oblivion meshes and textures. You could only use it if you owned both games, and nobody was going to upload any of the converted files anyway (since that is illegal). Using the tool itself was perfectly legal as all it did was convert files, which you had already paid for.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

You are right, it makes you feel warm inside.

"There are many reasons why this is so; among others, it is important to protect the original licensor's rights when Bethsoft has licensed a resource to use in a game. That license may allow use of the resource in that game alone, and Bethsoft is duty-bound to prevent the resource from being used in any other game, including their own."

...

Duty-bound because they own both games - no shit sailor.

 

[Disconnected]

I'm having a hard time believing they could enforce that request. Why didn't the Tesnexus guy call them on it?

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

Legality has little to do with it. Its extremely unlikely this person or group of people have the financial resources to go to court over the matter with Bethesda. They'd be insane to do so, even if they could, as there's little to be gained over it. You can take someone to court over pretty much anything. You may not win, but you can bankrupt the other guy in the mean time.

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

"There are many reasons why this is so; among others, it is important to protect the original licensor's rights when Bethsoft has licensed a resource to use in a game. That license may allow use of the resource in that game alone, and Bethsoft is duty-bound to prevent the resource from being used in any other game, including their own."

This means Bethesda may have had some third party create some of their resources. That third party probably still has ownership over those resources, so Bethesda legally has to protect those resources in the name of that third party.

As a side note, you don't really own all those files on your computer when you install software. When you buy software, you're basically just buying the ability to use those files, in a manner specified by the developer.

 

[NiM82]

Blizzard are letting a similar project, converting Star Craft assets (sounds, music, icons) to WC3, go ahead with Project: Revolution (in spite of the EULA). What's Beth's problem? Worried the Mod may outshine their future efforts? They sure do know how to shoot themselves in the foot - alienating the modding community, that's kept their franchise alive, is an EPIC fail.

As a side note, you don't really own all those files on your computer when you install software. When you buy software, you're basically just buying the ability to use those files, in a manner specified by the developer.

EULA's aren't worth the paper their written on. Whenever they get challenged in court they are over turned, including ones from the big boys like Apple and Microsoft. What a user does with their product, for their own use, is statutory in most civilized countries. Most people are too scared to challenge them though.

Edit: forgot to point out given the failure rate of EULA's most fold when the user says 'non'.

 

[Brother None]

I'm having a hard time believing they could enforce that request. Why didn't the Tesnexus guy call them on it?

What? Do you even know how sue-happy Bethesda is? I'm still glad none of NMA's "violations" have been against Bethesda, though I think they could technically sue us for releasing the Van Buren demo. Sure, Bethesda doesn't have a leg to stand on, but most of these friendly sites are volunteer-run and have neither the time nor money to go to court.

Like many companies bloated by PR and useless layers of managers, ZeniMax/Bethesda has a pretty overstaffed and very bored legal department. Even though it's Matt Grandstaff's job to haggle with sites about this and try and get them to see it Bethesda's way, it's the legal dept. that's constantly trying to sniff out new sites to sue. Because that's what they do.

Apart from some larger companies - like Blizzard - who carefully retain their userfriendly exterior, whether it's genuine or not genuine, most companies of some size suffer from this "bored lawyer" problem.

Bethesda has quite a history of forcing non-profit organizations to remove mods or documentation for inane reasons. Part of it is actually just IP-protection, because if something does get stolen for reals it is important that you can show in court that you have a history of protecting your intellectual property (because copyrights become forfeit if you never protect them), but part of it is just because it's fun.

 

[Disconnected]

I'm having a hard time believing they could enforce that request. Why didn't the Tesnexus guy call them on it?

What? Do you even know how sue-happy Bethesda is?

Okay.. I just don't see what it has to do with anything. It's a mod that enables the legal owner of some artwork to spruce it up a bit. It's right up there with using a hammer to hammer in nails. I'm sure BethSoft can file a civil suit to try to stop people from doing it, but I can't imagine how they'd avoid having it rejected.

 

[Section8]

If only the PR department was as entrenched in the legal side of things as it was in the development side of things, then unnecessary stupidity like this would never happen. I just don't see the upside of serving such insignificant EULA breaches. It's just another reason for people to resent a faceless corporation of multiheaded dicks.

 

[Brother None]

Okay.. I just don't see what it has to do with anything. It's a mod that enables the legal owner of some artwork to spruce it up a bit. It's right up there with using a hammer to hammer in nails. I'm sure BethSoft can file a civil suit to try to stop people from doing it, but I can't imagine how they'd avoid having it rejected.

Sure, let me know when you have the time and money to spare to do all the paperwork and lawyering involved. I'm sure TES Nexus is swimming in it.

Besides, they probably want to stay on Bethesda's good side.

If only the PR department was as entrenched in the legal side of things as it was in the development side of things, then unnecessary stupidity like this would never happen.

I think the lawyers, together with the ZeniMax suits, might be the only ones that actually outrank PR when it comes to what Bethesda does.

Oh well, at least the PR division can still make most of the significant design decisions

I just don't see the upside of serving such insignificant EULA breaches.

Like I said, from a legal viewpoint, if you protect the EULA against insignificant breaches, you have better footing to prevent significant breaches, or sue afterwards (though EULA cases never win).

PS: I love how Dogsbody, a moderator, has to do the final clearing up of confusion there. It's so funny how Pete and Matt try to use moderators as unofficial ways to clear up shit because they're hellbent on not clearing up anything officially. Dogsbody especially has this function.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Why would anyone want to take the content from one shitty game and load it into an even shittier game?

 

[Shannow]

Final clean-up? It realy sounded insane from the frirst post.
That there might be actual reasons behind that crap only became clear in this thread.
I'm so happy that I don't have anything to do with Bethesda or their products.

 

[MetalCraze]

I'm having a hard time believing they could enforce that request. Why didn't the Tesnexus guy call them on it?

What? Do you even know how sue-happy Bethesda is?

Todd Howard is a scientologist for sure

 

[Aridious]

It really doesn't make much sense from a long-term modding point of view. Even Bioware allowed a tool to convert BG1 to BG2 graphics, providing you owned both games in a similar manner.

Hell, even World of Warcraft stole many of their updated content from modders (such as the scrolling combat text) and by Bethesda refusing this kind of content to be created can only be a bad thing.

Then again, pretty much everything they touch turns into a shadowy diseased cow with only two legs. The same can be said for Sony Online Entertainment really.


Woo first post, hi all!

 

[MetalCraze]

EA should buy Bethesda. They would make a nice pair

 

[Brother None]

Bethesda is already owned by a media conglomerate. Something the media clowns that call Bethesda "independent" seem to forget. The buyout of BioWare by EA is not that different from ZeniMax buying Bethesda all those years ago. Same results, too.

Though I can see EA buying ZeniMax, sure.

 

[bezimek]

It really doesn't make much sense from a long-term modding point of view. Even Bioware allowed a tool to convert BG1 to BG2 graphics, providing you owned both games in a similar manner.

Hell, even World of Warcraft stole many of their updated content from modders (such as the scrolling combat text) and by Bethesda refusing this kind of content to be created can only be a bad thing.

Then again, pretty much everything they touch turns into a shadowy diseased cow with only two legs. The same can be said for Sony Online Entertainment really.


Woo first post, hi all!

I agree in 100 % - nice first post. Beth likes doing things like that (vide F3 demo) . BG1 to BG2 convert tool is TuTu as I remember right ?

btw. Welcome to the Hivemind

 

[Texas Red]

Love how the thread has to be locked for no real reason. The admin uses a good old cowardly tactics - you are having an argument with someone and your opponent, after finishing his last statement, goes in to another room in order for his words to remain "winning".

 

[Mayday]

We have to start a campaign to make Bethesda fight the big mods like OOO! After all, they upload the orrrrriginal Oblivion meshes with only minuscule edits (and lots of original textures with only minuscule edits). If that's not a violation of copyright then I'm the king of Poland!

Seriously! To the TESF!

Who's with me?

 

[JarlFrank]

Heck, that's what I call "user-friendly". They get dumber and dumber with every passing day. I really hope the whole Bethesda bunch becomes so retarded one day that they forget how to actually develop a game.

 

[Mayday]

. What's Beth's problem? Worried the Mod may outshine their future efforts?

Uh... I think that's pretty obvious? The same reason why CS is such a shitty tool when you want to actually improve the game. They just don't want the modders to do anything better than the next game (which wouldn't be very hard really).

 

[JarlFrank]

. What's Beth's problem? Worried the Mod may outshine their future efforts?

Uh... I think that's pretty obvious? The same reason why CS is such a shitty tool when you want to actually improve the game. They just don't want the modders to do anything better than the next game (which wouldn't be very hard really).

The modders already did that, didn't they? The OOO mod is way better gameplay-wise than anything Bethesda could have done, as is Francesco's Mod. And I don't even mention many of Morrowind's better mods.

 

[Balor]

Blizzard are letting a similar project, converting Star Craft assets (sounds, music, icons) to WC3, go ahead with Project: Revolution (in spite of the EULA). What's Beth's problem? Worried the Mod may outshine their future efforts? They sure do know how to shoot themselves in the foot - alienating the modding community, that's kept their franchise alive, is an EPIC fail.

Well, they've been doing it from the start, actually - I can say that as an ex-modder of some renown.
a. They refused to provide adequate documentation for Morrowind, and pleas for better documentation/fixing glaring bugs in CS/making it function a bit better remained largely ignored.
b. When it comes to Oblivion - it became even worse, due to 'horse armor' stuff that moddders can churn out in great quantities, for free and in some cases better quality.
Oh well, let them kill themselves if they want to. When modders turn away and they will continue to release games that require as much mods to be enjoyable as there is original content in the game - they will SUFFER.

 

[Mayday]

Frank: no, I actually don't think FCOM brings much more fun to Oblivion. It balances things a bit and adds new stuff but that's just more bricks for the same shitty, leaning tower.

 

[JarlFrank]

Frank: no, I actually don't think FCOM brings much more fun to Oblivion. It balances things a bit and adds new stuff but that's just more bricks for the same shitty, leaning tower.

Well, still, most mods are already better than what Oblivion was. And seeing in what direction Bethesda are going, Elder Scrolls 5 should become even worse unless the mainstream market changes its tastes.