Preview BioWare's guide to good Dragon Age previews.

[Shannow]

What do you mean by immersion? Plenty of people here translate "immersion" to "larping"

I didn't say "immersion". I accept that "immersion" is a buzzword and a term of art as it applies to video games. But for fuck's sake, is there really any confusion about what it means to immerse one's self in any activity? A good book, cooking dinner, fucking planting a garden; these are things into which one might immerse one's self. This concept existed long before CRPGs, but it certainly applies particularly well to our dear hobby.

If you're playing video games and not looking away from the monitor for hours at a time, there is no question that you've immersed yourself in that activity.

I mean, duh.

So you mean, if I immerse myself in a novel, that has a fantastical setting but mostly mature themes (ie, A song of ice and fire) that is a immature as reading a Mickey Mouse comic, since both are not real. That is what you are saying, isn't it?

Yeesh, you have convinced me.

 

[poocolator]

Edmonton? I'd have to be payed to go to Edmonton.

 

[Yeesh]

So you mean, if I immerse myself in a novel, that has a fantastical setting but mostly mature themes (ie, A song of ice and fire) that is a immature as reading a Mickey Mouse comic, since both are not real. That is what you are saying, isn't it?

Yeesh, you have convinced me.

May your acceptance of this wisdom help you get laid. When I go on a date and a girl asks me what I like to do, I never, ever tell her that I play video games. I also wouldn't mention that I read fantasy novels (which I don't but still). Why? Because the majority of folks do indeed see little difference between a grown man reading fantasy novels and a grown man reading Disney comics.

But the point I was making was more nuanced. Video games, unlike novels, are an activity that is already inherently suspect when you're talking about "maturity". Throw in the fact that you're playing video games about elves, dragons, and magic, and you're in a "that stuff's for kids" hole so deep that you'd have to be completely irony-proof not to smirk a little bit when you read posts by people trying to hammer down just what makes the act of playing one sort of fantasy video game more "mature" than the act of playing another.

I write this all as a grown man who plays video games. I'm just saying that our house is awfully glassy for all the stone throwing going on...

 

[Lesifoere]

Instead tell the girl that you read and adore Twilight. Voila! A quick, easy lay.

 

[dragonfk]

After reading Gamebanshee preview for the first time I feel a glimpse of hope. If the encounters will be well designed and character development as fine as it sounds then I'll surely be happy about the game.

Go Gaider!

 

[Shannow]

May your acceptance of this wisdom help you get laid.

*Yawn* My girlfriend wanted more sex from me last weekend than I was willing to provide. Four times per day is simply not fun anymore. But wait, you were trying to provide some "wisdom".

When I go on a date and a girl asks me what I like to do, I never, ever tell her that I play video games. I also wouldn't mention that I read fantasy novels (which I don't but still). Why? Because the majority of folks do indeed see little difference between a grown man reading fantasy novels and a grown man reading Disney comics.

So you'd rather disavow your own hobbies (and almost every hobby will be considered "juvenile" by somebody) just because you are too lazy to find a girl that likes you for your own sake and maybe even shares your interests? And imagining myself trying to hide all my books before I go on a date is pretty hilarious.
"Why are all those shelves empty?"
"Umm, dunno. Why don't I get you something to drink and you get out of those uncomfortable clothes."

But the point I was making was more nuanced. Video games, unlike novels, are an activity that is already inherently suspect when you're talking about "maturity". Throw in the fact that you're playing video games about elves, dragons, and magic, and you're in a "that stuff's for kids" hole so deep that you'd have to be completely irony-proof not to smirk a little bit when you read posts by people trying to hammer down just what makes the act of playing one sort of fantasy video game more "mature" than the act of playing another.

No. My point is nuanced. It states that different levels of maturity can be present in games, novels and any other media. That there will always be people who aren't interested in it and find it all "juvenile" is of no consequence here, where we all play computer games.
Your point is simply that if you gave in to your urges and bored somebody who consideres games "juvenile" to death with stories of your exploits in those games, you wouldn't get laid. Probably a true point but wholly inconsequential to anybody else.

I write this all as a grown man who plays video games. I'm just saying that our house is awfully glassy for all the stone throwing going on...

No, I already related what you were saying. It was awfully boing.

 

[RK47]

"likes you for the way you are"


Heh. Good luck.

 

[kris]

Edmonton? I'd have to be payed to go to Edmonton.

When I was in Mexico I met a lot of girls from Edmonton. They were not only pretty, they actually walked up and talked to me, something I usually dont experience back home. Maybe that is were bioware get the inspiration for those easy girls in their games.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

"likes you for the way you are"

Heh. Good luck.

It happens. It's rare, but it happens.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Yeah. Just like Life.

 

[winterraptor]

Deep.

 

[Lurkar]

"DAO has yet to show a mature storyline"

Bullshit. Read about the origins.

Then again, the Codex (or the internet in general) doesn't know what 'mature' is. Mature to them are titty cards in TW. LMAO

My first official Volourn response. I'm all kinds of giddy!

As I stated in the exact post you quoted, maturity isn't titty cards. That's immaturity. Again, most people lose the obsession for gore and tittays when they get past high school.

Maturity is complicated plots, three dimensional characters, and the absence of GORE AN TITTIES TAKEN TO THE EXTREEEEEEEEME. Grim and gritty taken seriously isn't mature, it's as fucking adolescent as it gets. It's a whiny teenager fruitlessly pretending to rebel against social norms.

Dragon Age is as teenager-esque as it gets. The characters are cardboard cut outs, the storyline is the same generic AN ANCIENT EVIL AWAKENS, there's blood and breasts everywhere, and worst of all, the writers and developers can't stop high fiving each other over how DARK AND GRITTY it is. The villains are all just GENERIC BAD GUYS. And of course, the usual Bioware tropes of one dimensional NPCs and hilariously sad psuedo-romances.

But here's the thing - if they weren't so SERIOUS about it, it wouldn't be as fucking pathetic. However, the sad fact is, they believe all the BS streaming out of their lips, that this really is a DARK AND GRITTY MATURE DARK ACTION RPG WITH GRITTY DARK REALISM AND DARK SHOULDER PADS IN THE GRITTY SETTING.

It's like the worst of the 90's are vomiting and they're keeping it in a bucket to sell.

Dragon Age is being sold for two people - teenagers, and man-children who are still teenagers in heart and never outgrew high school. Don't kid yourself into thinking this is as "mature" as it claims to be.

 

[Volourn]

All that spam and you didn't repsond to my post at all. Why lie, and waste our time?

Lats chance (nah, not really): Have you checked out the origins? Some 'mature' stuff. Also, some juvenile stuff. *shrug*

What do YOu think is mature? Name examples in any thing - be it games, books, movies, or whatever. Then explain why YOU think it's mature.

P.S. DA will be as mature as I expect it to be but do not ASSume how mature I think it'll be 'cause a Codexian Coxsucker, you probably know less what i think of it as you think you do.

Git that? Gut it? Gud.

 

[Serious_Business]

"DAO has yet to show a mature storyline"

Bullshit. Read about the origins.

Then again, the Codex (or the internet in general) doesn't know what 'mature' is. Mature to them are titty cards in TW. LMAO

My first official Volourn response. I'm all kinds of giddy!

As I stated in the exact post you quoted, maturity isn't titty cards. That's immaturity. Again, most people lose the obsession for gore and tittays when they get past high school.

Maturity is complicated plots, three dimensional characters, and the absence of GORE AN TITTIES TAKEN TO THE EXTREEEEEEEEME. Grim and gritty taken seriously isn't mature, it's as fucking adolescent as it gets. It's a whiny teenager fruitlessly pretending to rebel against social norms.

Dragon Age is as teenager-esque as it gets. The characters are cardboard cut outs, the storyline is the same generic AN ANCIENT EVIL AWAKENS, there's blood and breasts everywhere, and worst of all, the writers and developers can't stop high fiving each other over how DARK AND GRITTY it is. The villains are all just GENERIC BAD GUYS. And of course, the usual Bioware tropes of one dimensional NPCs and hilariously sad psuedo-romances.

But here's the thing - if they weren't so SERIOUS about it, it wouldn't be as fucking pathetic. However, the sad fact is, they believe all the BS streaming out of their lips, that this really is a DARK AND GRITTY MATURE DARK ACTION RPG WITH GRITTY DARK REALISM AND DARK SHOULDER PADS IN THE GRITTY SETTING.

It's like the worst of the 90's are vomiting and they're keeping it in a bucket to sell.

Dragon Age is being sold for two people - teenagers, and man-children who are still teenagers in heart and never outgrew high school. Don't kid yourself into thinking this is as "mature" as it claims to be.

Actually, this is a bit unfair.

What you describe is perfectly fine, but not to someone who feels like being anal.

You see, supposedly Bioware's story and characters are nuanced, because they have this little thing that seperates them from straight up copy-paste fantasy. They take copy paste fantasy, and they twist it a little - voila, original and mature storytelling.

For example, you must end the ancient evil - but the twist it, you can do it in an 'extreme' way if you wish it. That doesn't change shit, I know, but supposedly this is the real deal.

Elves are elves, but, there's racism in this game.
You see, they took elves - and racism. Yes. That is some complicated shit right there.
But, think they will dwell upon the subject of racism in depth? Forget about it.

Generally, people will be pragmatic and cynical.
Compared to Baldur's Gate, this is supposedly something new.
I guess this is true. There will be the obligatory 'shades of gray' thing going on.
Now, you might say - well, that's something. I guess.
I still think it's fucking boring, but maybe that's because I know more about ethics than a dungeon and dragons player. Which is what the game is aiming about. So, I guess it's fine.

Fuck this game. Dragons, for fuck's sake

 

[Weresloth]

"DAO has yet to show a mature storyline"

Bullshit. Read about the origins.

Then again, the Codex (or the internet in general) doesn't know what 'mature' is. Mature to them are titty cards in TW. LMAO

My first official Volourn response. I'm all kinds of giddy!

As I stated in the exact post you quoted, maturity isn't titty cards. That's immaturity. Again, most people lose the obsession for gore and tittays when they get past high school.

Maturity is complicated plots, three dimensional characters, and the absence of GORE AN TITTIES TAKEN TO THE EXTREEEEEEEEME. Grim and gritty taken seriously isn't mature, it's as fucking adolescent as it gets. It's a whiny teenager fruitlessly pretending to rebel against social norms.

Dragon Age is as teenager-esque as it gets. The characters are cardboard cut outs, the storyline is the same generic AN ANCIENT EVIL AWAKENS, there's blood and breasts everywhere, and worst of all, the writers and developers can't stop high fiving each other over how DARK AND GRITTY it is. The villains are all just GENERIC BAD GUYS. And of course, the usual Bioware tropes of one dimensional NPCs and hilariously sad psuedo-romances.

But here's the thing - if they weren't so SERIOUS about it, it wouldn't be as fucking pathetic. However, the sad fact is, they believe all the BS streaming out of their lips, that this really is a DARK AND GRITTY MATURE DARK ACTION RPG WITH GRITTY DARK REALISM AND DARK SHOULDER PADS IN THE GRITTY SETTING.

It's like the worst of the 90's are vomiting and they're keeping it in a bucket to sell.

Dragon Age is being sold for two people - teenagers, and man-children who are still teenagers in heart and never outgrew high school. Don't kid yourself into thinking this is as "mature" as it claims to be.

How in the name of Hades have you come to all these conclusions having not played the game to completion and going by a few trailers and 20 minute playthroughs by people at some convention? It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Grim and gritty taken seriously isn't mature, it's as fucking adolescent as it gets.

 

[MetalCraze]

How in the name of Hades have you come to all these conclusions having not played the game to completion and going by a few trailers and 20 minute playthroughs by people at some convention? It makes no sense whatsoever.

It makes sense. Because Bioware was more than eager to spoil everything even in those 20 minutes long walkthroughs and tons and tons of previews. Perhaps you should read them? Not mentioning that even seeing their "new shit" trailer is more than enough to develop an allergy to Dragon Age.
And I see you are new to a concept of "Rule of Thumb" - aka what you are saying is "I ate Bioware's shit 6 times, but this time, this time it will be good! You haven't tasted something people say is bad and smells bad - how can you judge?!"

 

[hiver]

Death is too good for them.

..ahh thanks mate,

 

[Weresloth]

How in the name of Hades have you come to all these conclusions having not played the game to completion and going by a few trailers and 20 minute playthroughs by people at some convention? It makes no sense whatsoever.

It makes sense. Because Bioware was more than eager to spoil everything even in those 20 minutes long walkthroughs and tons and tons of previews. Perhaps you should read them? Not mentioning that even seeing their "new shit" trailer is more than enough to develop an allergy to Dragon Age.
And I see you are new to a concept of "Rule of Thumb" - aka what you are saying is "I ate Bioware's shit 6 times, but this time, this time it will be good! You haven't tasted something people say is bad and smells bad - how can you judge?!"

There is nothing wrong with your rule of thumb as long as it is a rule of thumb and not a rule. A rule of thumb indicates that the rule can be broken under the right circumstance. I get the impression that your thoughts are a rule. ie All BioWare games suck even though most people even on these forums would agree that is not really the case. There is something with going into detail about all the things that will suck with no real logical basis to support them.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

All BioWare games suck even though most people even on these forums would agree that is not really the case

WTF are you smoking, and where can I get some of that stuff?

 

[Yeesh]

I write this all as a grown man who plays video games. I'm just saying that our house is awfully glassy for all the stone throwing going on...

No, I already related what you were saying. It was awfully boing.

That's a healthy and unearned sense of superiority you've got there, but I'm not interested in an internet pissing contest. Let's assume that your girlfriend is younger, cuter, kinkier, and lighter than any of the girls I'm seeing. Congrats.

And I don't question your own Spock-itude, yet I must say again that if you do get my meaning, then you're ignoring it instead of addressing it. All I'm saying is that you must be irony-proof to miss this:

That there will always be people who aren't interested in it and find it all "juvenile" is of no consequence here, where we all play computer games.

You're all Zen style when you say that every hobby will be considered juvenile by somebody, and I assume that means that a label of juvenile should mean nothing when it's applied to something you like. And yet you're posting this nuanced point in a thread about how the story/gameplay for a certain game cannot be called "mature" (which is another way of saying it's juvenile), with the implication that anyone who likes this kind of story/gameplay is an illiterate 13-year old loser. This is called irony.

My point is nuanced. It states that different levels of maturity can be present in games, novels and any other media.

It's funny that you feel there's an objective scale of maturity present within the confines of each type of media, but you reject the idea that playing games could be objectively measured against other media and found to be a more juvenile experience. Kudos to you and me for feeling that way, but as I said (and as I figure you are aware), most of the world is happy to rank playing games relative to experiencing other forms of art. Video games, or at least our beloved viciously lengthy and un-social single-player fantasy CRPGs, are for kids and for losers. Do I reject this assesment? Duh, of course.

So you do too, yay! But here's where you get tripped up. You reject their shallow-minded classification of YOUR hobby as juvenile, and yet you don't mind turning around and applying the same erroneous maturity standard to divide novels and video games into piles of mature and juvenile. It's silly when the world craps on your hobby, but unlike them, YOU know what's REALLY mature when you're crapping on story lines or gameplay you don't like.

It's like buying the cheapest Mercedes. You embrace a classification system that puts you at the bottom. I feel that's silly. I'd rather just not argue about what's mature and what isn't. Since I'm not 10.

Duh.

 

[aries202]

Writing dialogues say for a videogame is totally different from writing dialogues for a tv-show, a movie, a short story or even a novel. The game goes for the plot, the game's story and yes, the characters, too.

From what I've seen in DA: Origins, espeically in the preview of how you can decide to spoil or not spoil a holy artefact and the consequences this features in the game, this is indeed something new (at least to me; I don't know if something like this was done in Ulitma 4,5 or 6 or Wizardry 2-7 or some other game...).

I can agree upon the whole elves being treated as second-class citizens is so The Witcher, but is there anything wrong with this? It lies in the implementation of such design decisions, I find. Origins stories (all 6 of them) sound great as well something new, to me. (again, older games could well have them without me knowing about it).

DA: Origins is a very bloody game; war isn't exactly a picknick or a some grand fairytale like King Cailan in DA: Origins seems to think. Bioware added that much blood, I think, to ensure that people understand that 'there is no honour in war' - only grief, sorrow, despair and darkness. The world is about to be destroyed by yes, (once again) the ancient evil. However, again the implementation and design decisions in this game should be judged at their own accord, not pre-judged e.g. play the game, before you pass (any) judgment on it, be it positive or negative.

Generally, people (npcs) in DA: Origins will have their own agenda; coerce, intimidate and persuade you will be doing a lot, if you so choose. And some events may play out a bit (or rather a lot) different when you choose one choice over the other; consequences of your choices won't show untill later in the game. And yes, how very Witcher of the game, but again the implementation decided if this is done in a good or not so good (e.g. bad) way.

As for the comments about most people still seeing or thinking that people who play videogames are adolescent boys with pimples or juvenile adults, I don't think this is true anymore. Most development houses and publishers as well as the general public realizes and acknowledges the fact that the average video game player (both pc and console) now are about 30-35 years old. And makes games for this demographic, too - games like DA: Origins.

And for the record; all boobz-seeing in DA: Origins will be entirely optional and done after a lengthy 20-30 hour dialogue with your romantic interest.

 

[Volourn]

"I can agree upon the whole elves being treated as second-class citizens is so The Witcher,"

L0L TW wasn't even the first to do that. D&D has had it for decades as have other literary pieces. *shrug*

There is NOTHING original about TW so to crow about DA 'stealing' from it is pathetic (not that DA is original either).

 

[Hamster]

Writing dialogues say for a videogame is totally different from writing dialogues for a tv-show, a movie, a short story or even a novel. The game goes for the plot, the game's story and yes, the characters, too.

From what I've seen in DA: Origins, espeically in the preview of how you can decide to spoil or not spoil a holy artefact and the consequences this features in the game, this is indeed something new (at least to me; I don't know if something like this was done in Ulitma 4,5 or 6 or Wizardry 2-7 or some other game...).

I can agree upon the whole elves being treated as second-class citizens is so The Witcher, but is there anything wrong with this? It lies in the implementation of such design decisions, I find. Origins stories (all 6 of them) sound great as well something new, to me. (again, older games could well have them without me knowing about it).

DA: Origins is a very bloody game; war isn't exactly a picknick or a some grand fairytale like King Cailan in DA: Origins seems to think. Bioware added that much blood, I think, to ensure that people understand that 'there is no honour in war' - only grief, sorrow, despair and darkness. The world is about to be destroyed by yes, (once again) the ancient evil. However, again the implementation and design decisions in this game should be judged at their own accord, not pre-judged e.g. play the game, before you pass (any) judgment on it, be it positive or negative.

Generally, people (npcs) in DA: Origins will have their own agenda; coerce, intimidate and persuade you will be doing a lot, if you so choose. And some events may play out a bit (or rather a lot) different when you choose one choice over the other; consequences of your choices won't show untill later in the game. And yes, how very Witcher of the game, but again the implementation decided if this is done in a good or not so good (e.g. bad) way.

As for the comments about most people still seeing or thinking that people who play videogames are adolescent boys with pimples or juvenile adults, I don't think this is true anymore. Most development houses and publishers as well as the general public realizes and acknowledges the fact that the average video game player (both pc and console) now are about 30-35 years old. And makes games for this demographic, too - games like DA: Origins.

And for the record; all boobz-seeing in DA: Origins will be entirely optional and done after a lengthy 20-30 hour dialogue with your romantic interest.

How much Bioware pays you and where do i sign up for this job?

 

[DefJam101]

dragon age reinvents the noir fable