Review Bloodlines trashed by some morons at ComputerGames

[Sol Invictus]

The way that Bloodlines' story was told is pretty much garbage, period. I don't have anything against the whole faux "saving the World of Darkness from Gehenna" stuff but the Prince's betrayal was weak, and the way the game just failed to grip the player in terms of the storyline.

In Baldur's Gate you were constantly reminded about your ward's murderer and you did whatever you could in order to find out even if it meant doing a few quests and helping a few people out with their own problems. Torment was always about finding out your true identity, and that would mean killing people, persuading others for information, tracing back the steps of your former selves, and finding out things you probably didn't want to know about yourself. Fallout was about survival in the post-apocalyptic world, saving your Vault 13 even if it meant turning the wasteland upside down, and having the constant gut feeling that there was a horrible threat hanging in the air.

What did these games have in common? A gripping storyline, even if some of them were less 'forced' upon you than the others.

Bloodlines on the other hand features a Neonate, new to the World of Darkness for only a couple of nights, doing errands for a Prince just because he tells you to. After a few nights, you're already killing the mythical Kuei Jin, much older vampires, the entire Society of Leopold, and several Primogen. So, where's my motivation? Why should I even care about the World of Darkness, being so new to it and all?

Concerning your review. There are things that I should point out (that VD already has) that make it a poorly written one:

* Firearms are anything but weak.
* The story isn't about you saving the world. It's some 'clever plot twist' (but without much character motivation, who gives a shit?) about a faux-Gehenna.
* You will get more than half of your character's total XP in Chinatown. XP is a moot issue at that point. When you start getting 5 XP for mundane quests, you'll see what I mean.
* You named Shalebridge Cradle incorrectly. This deducts from our perception of you as an inspective reviewer.

I think you just wrote your review based on GameSpot's and others that are currently online and made your conclusions from there, without having actually finished the game. It isn't difficult. We all know the basics of the game: 5 endings, faux plot twist, poorly implemented FPS, performance issues, the Society bug, respawning monsters, extra-long Warrens, "scary" Hotel, good NPCs, Malkavian dialogue, multiple choices and outcomes in subquests but extreme linearity in the main plot, weak personal character development. I could go on, but that would mean writing a review similar to yours.

 

[Vault Dweller]

"Did you actually play a ranged character, Volourn? No, you don't have to have 10, 6-8 will do as well. I didn't try that at 2-3, because what would be the fucking point?"

Yes, I did. I had 7 or 8 as a ranged score by the end of the game. It pretty much sucked.

Hmm, looks like it's you who suck. Anyway, what weapons did you use? What exactly sucked?

And, I sure as heck didn't use the spray option for the guns that had it 'cause after the first shot my weapon would just spray all over the place and miss the target menaing I'd do 30 or so damage period.

I believe you are talking about the first SMG, it does have quite a kick. The second one, Killmatic, is easier to use.

Guns were underpowered ....

When you don't know how to use them. Isn't everything though?

The push of the story is 'safe the world or protect the va,pires from Gehenna'. That's the push of it. That is the story even if it lande dup being a hoax.

How do you figure that out? See my reply to that Boss guy

 

[Volourn]

How typical. Because the guns suck; it must be my fault. R00fles! LOL Hahaha. Whatever.

For that, you don't even deserve a serious repsonse to the second aprt of your post. Come back when your argument is more than "You suck!"

P.S. Only I'm allowed to use that argument.

P.S.S Yes, I'm a hypocrite and proud of it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

How typical. Because the guns suck; it must be my fault. R00fles! LOL Hahaha. Whatever.

For that, you don't even deserve a serious repsonse to the second aprt of your post. Come back when your argument is more than "You suck!"

How typical. I cornered you, and you use an excuse to weasel your way out. Oh well...

P.S. You still suck

 

[Volourn]

"How typical. I cornered you, and you use an excuse to weasel your way out. Oh well..."

No.


"P.S. You still suck "

Only Jeanette's titties.

 

[Old Scratch]

It's not about "expecting" anything ... it's about you as a newcomer to the vampire world and the newly discovered sarcophagus (gee, what a coicidence), which everyone tells you that if it is opened, will seal the fate of both vampires and humans ... anyway, the opinions regarding the storyline are in the end subjective, so we can go on like this forever ...

As for the firearms ... I for one don't like the idea of having to spend almost all of my hard earned experience points just to use them to increase one feat ... and btw, I'm not the only complaining about this:

The problem is that firearms in Bloodlines are severely underpowered and they only allow you to attack one opponent at a time. By using a melee weapon you can attack multiple enemies at once. More importantly, you can even knock them down, which buys you precious time to concentrate on a single foe. The only time firearms seem more useful than melee weapons is when you want to attack larger monsters from a distance. Otherwise, you're going to find yourself at a disadvantage most of the time when using a gun.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vtmb/review-2.html

That's not really accurate either. There's these things called a shotguns, that knock multiple enemies on their ass when they're in close enough proximity. For example, I found the automatic shotgun was particularly helpful at knocking back those little two-legged ghoul things, and the two Chinese brothers. Saved me from having to get into melee range with them and getting torn to pieces.

You can't really expect a pistol to hit multiple enemies in one shot.

I never had my ranged feat over six, yet I still found it to be the most efficient approach to combat for my first character. But it's an RPG, how can you complain that you have to increase a skill to get better at it?

Just for the record, fuck stories in RPGs. I don't give a damn about the main plotline, as long as the stuff inbetween is compelling. I don't want to save the world, and I don't want some mellow dramatic plot twist that's supposed to make me all misty eyed or reflective. There are enough games that use that as their ace-of-spades already.

You want a great story, go pick up a book. That's not really directed at you Mr. Reviewer, but I get tired of people carrying on like RPGs are supposed to be the 21st Century equivalent of a novel, and little more. I blame the Final Fantasy games.

 

[Sol Invictus]

The problem with Bloodlines' storyline is that it is uncompelling in its storytelling and there is very little to tie all the little subquests together. As an example, you should take note that the entire situation with Jeanette and Therese have absolutely no impact on the remaining 3/4ths game.

Some form of weave with the storyline (as with KOTOR 2, Fallout, Fallout 2, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate) would have made the game a much, much better experience. Examples:

Fallout 2: The enclave is funding its activities by dealing with the Mafia in New Reno. The Mafia is connected to New California Republic. The NCR is connected to the storyline at Vault City, which has a power shortage problem. It deals with NCR to trade for power because the local powerplant at Gecko is being unreceptive to NCR and its needs. The slavers in The Den provide the backbone of the Vault City's workforce but Ranger elements in the NCR oppose the slavers. Even still, a lot more could have been done with Fallout 2's interweaved plots and missions.

Baldur's Gate: Your father is dead, and in your quest to search for your father's killer you come to the small town of Nashkel, where the local Nashkel mines have been infested with kobolds who are preventing the local miners from producing a large output. It is discovered that the kobolds are working for certain elements of the Iron Throne traders guild, and that they are also sabotaging the minerals in the Nashkel mines by weakening them with some sort of corrosive acid from under the ground. Thus, the city of Baldur's Gate, which gets more than half of its iron from Nashkel (which isn't a part of the Iron Throne) has to get its materials from the Iron Throne, instead. Since it can't afford to pay them for all its materials they have to offer the Iron Throne delegates concessions and special positions within the city in order to attain a good rate on the iron.

The Duchy at Baldur's Gate doesn't know it, but the Iron Throne is intent on bringing the city of Baldur's Gate and the city of Amn into full scale war, while making a huge profit off of it from the sale of iron. The Iron Throne owns the only working mine in the area ever since the Nashkel mines were sabotaged. What the Iron Throne doesn't know is that Sarevok, son of the leader of this branch of the Iron Throne has other ideas, and other reasons to want to start a war between the two nations.

Now that's what I call a plot. The Prince sending you off to do a myriad of random missions and then betraying you later isn't what I would like to call a plot.

You want a great story, go pick up a book. That's not really directed at you Mr. Reviewer, but I get tired of people carrying on like RPGs are supposed to be the 21st Century equivalent of a novel, and little more. I blame the Final Fantasy games.

You forget yourself. RPGs aren't supposed to be braindead action games.

 

[DarkSign]

Just for the record, fuck stories in RPGs. I don't give a damn about the main plotline, as long as the stuff inbetween is compelling. I don't want to save the world, and I don't want some mellow dramatic plot twist that's supposed to make me all misty eyed or reflective. There are enough games that use that as their ace-of-spades already.

You want a great story, go pick up a book. That's not really directed at you Mr. Reviewer, but I get tired of people carrying on like RPGs are supposed to be the 21st Century equivalent of a novel, and little more. I blame the Final Fantasy games.

If the character in the role you are playing (you did say RPG, right) doesnt take the "hero's journey"...thats a gay ass way of saying follow a story arc...what point is there in character progression? External change leads to internal change. Internal change should have meaning. And that meaning lends itself to a...wait for it...wait for it....story.

Otherwise, as Exit said, its a mindless action game.

 

[Dhruin]

I thought Bloodlines had a generally good story and I thoroughly enjoyed it. So what if Jeanette/Therese had no impact on the rest of the game, Exitium? Quests like that can be named in any RPG. THe whole Jeanette/Therese thing explored clan behaviour and introduced the world of Vampire politics, which was interesting and relevant.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

You want a great story, go pick up a book. That's not really directed at you Mr. Reviewer, but I get tired of people carrying on like RPGs are supposed to be the 21st Century equivalent of a novel, and little more. I blame the Final Fantasy games.

I actually had to read that twice to make sure I had read it right. :shock:

I'm not gonna go into any lengthy retort as both Exit and Darksign stated exactly what I would have. FYI, though, RPGs were doing it before the FF series came along. Hell, they've been doing it before video games became commonplace.

You want Dungeon Hack, well then by god, you play Dungeon Hack.

Me? I'll take a good interactive story anyday. Especially one that's so fucking deep I can play it many times over and see something new everytime.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I thought Bloodlines had a generally good story and I thoroughly enjoyed it. So what if Jeanette/Therese had no impact on the rest of the game, Exitium? Quests like that can be named in any RPG. THe whole Jeanette/Therese thing explored clan behaviour and introduced the world of Vampire politics, which was interesting and relevant.

Absolutely none of the quests you take part in, or have an active hand in, aside from the lousy combat missions the Prince gives you, have any impact whatsoever on the main plot of the game, nor is there any relation to the storyline, either. I'm sure quests like these can be named in games like Gothic but I've come to expect more from the team that created Fallout.

The Jeanette/Therese thing might have been a good vignette in its own right, but it had approximately zero relevence to the game's main plot, much like the Anarch quests, the Baron's quests, V.V.'s quests or the Chinatown quests.

Not to mention that the progress you make in these quests is completely, and utterly linear. It's just one point to the next. There's no branching, no acting outside of the script's boundaries. Fallout, Torment, KOTOR and Baldur's Gate 2 had more freedom than that. Much more. For Baldur's Gate 2, you could, for example, kill Firkraag in his dungeon without having to deal with the Lord, or even rescue his daughter. This allowed you to take a different, somewhat non-linear path in dealing with Firkraag.

In Bloodlines, it is just not possible to kill the Russian Mob Guy before talking to Venus, because his room is locked, there is way to access the area, and the NPCs don't spawn until after you talk to her about it. Likewise, there's no way to kill the Plaguebearers without initiating the quest from the Tremere Regent or Damsel first - and then following a linear path of 'points' in order to get to the enemy NPCs. You couldn't head straight up into the hotel room with the Plaguebearer without reading the phone message in the Zombie's house, and then talking to the dying woman in the Skyline Apartment building first to find out the whereabouts of the Plaguebearer.

That is just one example, and it is crap.

 

[Dhruin]

Well now, I don't remember saying anything about the linearity - let's stick to the story. Random quests for the Prince? I don't think they're so random to start with but it's hardly unusual - most RPGs have you doing "random" quests to impress someone / gain their favour bla bla.

The Anarchs are a sub-plot that exposes more about vampire politics and the plaguebearer quests contribute to the suggestion that Gehenna might be approaching. I still don't see a problem that Jeanette isn't central to the main plot, other than exploring politics. Fallout might be better in most ways but I still end up doing a bunch of side-quests that aren't central to the main plot, or am I playing a different game?

 

[Sol Invictus]

It isn't that the subquests aren't central to the main plot. It's that they're completely unrelated to the damn thing.

 

[Old Scratch]

Where the hell did I say I wanted a dungeon hack? I hate dungeon crawling, action fest, with "RPG elements" games. Are you people are just extending "story" to mean everything non-combat related in a game, or are we talking about main plotlines?

The storyline in my opinion, should be little more than a motivator to get your player out experiencing the world and developing his/her personality. You should create your own storyline through the course of the game. Like in the Fallouts. I didn't give a shit about the super mutants, the master, or what the enclave was doing, they were just the motivating factors in pushing your character forward and driving him to interact with the world however you chose. The quality of that motivation isn't a bid deal if what comes inbetween is rewarding enough.

The only way to have a great, focused, story is if you make a lot of stuff linear, and then you might as well be reading a book. Really, there is no RPG I've played that I thought had a great main story anyway.

 

[Volourn]

"they were just the motivating factors in pushing your character forward and driving him to interact with the world however you chose. The quality of that motivation isn't a bid deal if what comes inbetween is rewarding enough."

Are you nuts? Without good quality motivation for a character; choices beocme meaningless as there'd be no point to it. The question of "why" I'd want to do soemthing is just as important as choosing to do it.

Without motivation it means nothing.

Otehrwise, even dialogue becomes a click fest.

If there is no motivation for role-playinga certain way; you might as well be a robot.

Period.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

The storyline in my opinion, should be little more than a motivator to get your player out experiencing the world and developing his/her personality. You should create your own storyline through the course of the game.

Okay, that last sentence I will agree with. That's the whole purpose of open ended games. However, that first sentence is total bunk for a couple of reasons. First off, according to your logic, a simple "You're a guy who grew up in a town with lots of people who decided to move to the country and make a life" would be enough motivator and then they drop you in the middle of some wide open plain and you're supposed to build your story from there.

Sorry, don't think so.

Even Fallout had a deep story to it, it just gave you the option to veer from the story and do your own thing. Same with games like Fallout 2, Darklands, and Daggerfall. Now, while the make your own story from the start idea is a sound one, there is one big reason it will probably never happen: catering to a wider audience. Alot of gamers don't want that kind of freedom. They want to be able to follow a main plotline from beginning to end and see the story through. So you're always going to have a base plot to guide players if they so wish it.

I remember a couple of games back in the early 90's that were Robinson Crusoe style survival games and were really open ended right from the start. Those games did not do so well despite their innovative approach to the RPG genre. Of course, that could have also been due to the fact that the mechanics were pretty messed up as well. A two foot fall in those games had a good chance of killing you.

 

[Fez]

Robinson's Requiem?

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Robinson's Requiem?

Yeah. Thanks, Fez. That one and it's sequel Deus were the two I was thinking of.