Review BoA sucks, says PC Gamer

[Psilon]

Not just the plot, but most of the quests you're given afterward. The boss fights are significantly different depending on which side you choose.

 

[merry andrew]

Or maybe it's a way of saying that offering choices that don't really affect anything means that those choices are pointless in the grand scheme of things. I haven't played BoA, but that sounds like what's he's suggesting.

That's how I took it. Considering that PC Gamer gave Geneforge 2 a score of 80%, I doubt they gave BoA 50% because of its dated graphics.

From the official BoA site:

Blades of Avernum comes with several large, exciting adventures

As opposed to Geneforge 2, which is one large exciting adventure. I tried the BoA demo and didn't like it much for that reason.

 

[dagamer667]

Fuck the establishment. How on earth could BoA have gotten 50%? Did they let some FPS-head review this? An intern that didn't get to play all the l337 stuff? No matter what you make of the graphics, the game is worth a lot more - at least a 75%. I would have rated it as approx 80ish% myself

There is a good chance you are right to a degree. I see it all the time where less anticipated titles get handed off to freelancers or less experienced reviewers. They figure that no one except the developers will care if the review is worse than the game deserves.

Also, the truth is that a game has to have up to date graphics to be taken seriously at this point. It's one thing to pass up on DX9 features and completely another to have visuals that are only barely above those seen in Pong. Personally, I like to play games that have great gameplay AND graphics. Now, I don't care if the visuals are slightly dated as long as it's not TOO dated and if the artistic quality makes up for the lack of polys (like System Shock 2). I do care when the game has 2d graphics optimized for and locked at the pityful 640*480 and looks awful on my 19" display. In all fairness, 3d looks just as bad at low resolutions, and 2d can look really good as long as the developers don't support any res below 1024*768. DivDiv is a great example of the detail that 2d can provide.

 

[Spazmo]

Divine Divinity is a game that comes on three CDs. Do you think Vogel can afford--both in terms of bandwidth and in terms of people who'd be turned off by it--to sell games bigger than a gigabyte by download?

 

[Psilon]

I do care when the game has 2d graphics optimized for and locked at the pityful 640*480 and looks awful on my 19" display.

You shouldn't have any problem with BoA, then, as all the Avernum/Geneforge games run at 800x600.

 

[FrankHorrigan]

I quite enjoyed BoA and wont nit pick over some minor flaws in it but i dont see what harm a graphics overhaul would do. It doesnt have to be cutting edge isometric ala TOEE but it could be improved. Regarding spiderweb not being able to afford massive 1gb downloads for the game etc, thats just taking it to an extreme, being realistic, if the had an engine that visualy was around the quality of say ultima VIII in higher resolution.. That came on i think 6 floppy disks. I dont think it would be that hard to do, and im sure, would open the door to more customers for spiderweb. Alot of people to quick to judge and spiderwebs engine just doesnt help sale's. You might say such people arent worth the trouble, but at the end of the day, more sales is good spiderweb and whats good for spiderweb is good for the pc rpg scene.

 

[Dhruin]

I have only played the Geneforge series because I found the idea of that world much more interesting, so i can't comment on the score. I enjoyed them very much in spite of the graphics but I do think it's time to move them on. 1024x768 seems a reasonable request in this age and I think the <15Mb philosophy is wrong - I don't believe it would dissuade the internet-savvy audience that he is addressing...even drivers are routinely larger than this these days.

 

[Whipporowill]

It's not like I'd mind a major graphical overhaul for Vogel's games (I'm as much into graphics as the next guy), but I fail how to see how that makes the game worth 50%.

 

[Sol Invictus]

The RPG Content in BoA is fine, but the graphics do,. however, even by freeware standards... SUCK!

 

[Gwendo]

About modding community, check this out: http://boa-center.cjb.net.

 

[Gwendo]

The RPG Content in BoA is fine, but the graphics do,. however, even by freeware standards... SUCK!

I would say that they are enough for RPG lovers. But younger or casual or mainstream players will just be pushed away from the game, due to its graphics, before they even can judge its gameplay.

 

[Spazmo]

I, like Dhruin, never dug the Avernum games quite as much as Geneforge, which kinda looks a bit better. But in any case, I believe that GF2 was to be the last game based on the current (Nethergate) engine, so hopefully we'll see something new and flashy for GF3.

 

[mr. lamat]

I would say that they are enough for RPG lovers

they're enough for people who can put up with shite graphics.

as for the rebel faction... you either kill them or you join them. that's resource management, not choice.

 

[plin]

The RPG Content in BoA is fine, but the graphics do,. however, even by freeware standards... SUCK!

I would say that they are enough for RPG lovers. But younger or casual or mainstream players will just be pushed away from the game, due to its graphics, before they even can judge its gameplay.

Actually, I think the GF2 graphics were great, and I thought they were fine. But the GFX in avernum were nasty, especially since there was no animation whatsoever.

And I think all 4(avernum) games are very repetative in gameplay as well.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Divine Divinity is a game that comes on three CDs. Do you think Vogel can afford--both in terms of bandwidth and in terms of people who'd be turned off by it--to sell games bigger than a gigabyte by download?

Why does it have to weigh in over a gigabyte? I don't understand your reasoning.

First off, Divine Divinity and Prince of Qin both had zero compression. They were completely unpacked, uncompressed, and thus weighed in a lot more than they should have been. Someone ought to distribute free DemoShield software to their offices.

Diablo and Nox both weighed in under 270mb and compressed with today's .RAR compression, they go for under 166mb each.

Guess what, they both had far superior graphics to Vogel's games and even though it's ARGUABLE that they had a much larger budget and a much bigger team, it's also arguable that Vogel could simply hire out some college grads as freelance artists and have them do it. It isn't as if they're going to demand millions. They want to make it out in the world, too.

Besides, who says he'd have to host them on his own server? He could always get some servers to sponsor him. I'm sure the man has -some- clout. If ZeroSum, StarDock and those Starshatter guys can carry large games, I don't see why Vogel cant.

edit: And as people pointed out earlier, Ultima VII weighed in around 6 FLOPPY DISKS (that's 6 x 1.44mb) Hey, what's up with that?

It's not as if anyone's asking Vogel to put in a thematic soundtrack, CGI cutscenes or even mp3 music. Hell, Midi/Tracker format is fine as it is - it's the graphics that need a rehaul.

 

[wizard]

I, like Dhruin, never dug the Avernum games quite as much as Geneforge, which kinda looks a bit better. But in any case, I believe that GF2 was to be the last game based on the current (Nethergate) engine, so hopefully we'll see something new and flashy for GF3.

Errr....GF2 ain't using the Nethergate engine, it's completely different engine

Actually, I think the GF2 graphics were great, and I thought they were fine. But the GFX in avernum were nasty, especially since there was no animation whatsoever.

Well Jeff has said that he will re-do the graphics for the nextavernum game after BoA...(Avernum 4 )

 

[almondblight]

Well Jeff has said that he will re-do the graphics for the nextavernum game after BoA...(Avernum 4 )

I thought there was to be no Avernum 4, just an unanounced mystery game. Anyways, overhauling the engine probably seems simple enough, and Jeff has mentioned he would like to make his games look better (if you check on the website they're even looking for ghraphical designers). Jeff's also said on numerous occasions that he knows his graphics are dated. I think that probably the next engine (after Geneforge 3) will have the same kind of bump that Geneforge had over Avernum (unfortunately, losing height differences). However, this is basically a three person team, writing, programming, updating, selling and managing the games themselves. Giving the games a graphical overhaul might mean more than just paying a college kid a couple hundred dollars.

Oh yeah, here's a page for potential scenario designers by one of the community leaders, some people might find it interesting:

http://www.sitemouse.com/users/drakefyre/boa.html (nice because so many RPG's don't do this)

"Why is/are the baddie(s) doing whatever it is they're doing? What's their motive?

Why is the evil wizard attacking the nearby town? What can he get out of it? If the answer is simply 'because he's evil', it's back to the drawing board for you. Using a hackneyed plot and motive will almost guarantee a lot of negative feedback from players. Among the other overused justifications is 'he was possessed by demons' (but why do the demons want to attack the town? Just because they're demons?). "

"Why does the party win?

What does the party have or do to overcome the baddies and win the scenario? All of this should be planned out beforehand, and it should all make sense. If a powerful wizard helps you break into the Impenetrable Lair of Lord Evilmancy, why are you needed in the first place? Couldn't he just take on Lord Evilmancy himself? If Lord Evilmancy knows the mark of his magic, why would the wizard hire you? Surely there are better and more experienced adventurers out there. "

 

[wizard]

I thought there was to be no Avernum 4, just an unanounced mystery game.

Well after BoA's release Jeff sent nice little answer to someone who had asked if Jeff will put better graphics in his game. The answer was this:

"We will update our graphics for our next avernum game"

So that is clear indication of Avernum 4. And what else mystery game could "continue a story that has waited a long time to be continued" as Jeff said in Spiderweb Newsletter.
It's highly unlikely for the game to be Nethergate 2 because, well 1st of all, Nethergate propably wasn't as popular as Avernum-series and secondly, well, the things I said already

 

[almondblight]

I suppose you're right, I just found this:

"This is its last game. Should we make an Avernum 4 (which is likely), the engine will be sparkly and new."

here:

http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/528/528503p3.html

[edit]
and this, so maybe not:

"I'm going to write Avernum 4, and Renar-Ihrno's blast at the end of Avernum 3 will have split Erika into fifty little Erikas. All of the NPCs will be Erika. And all of the PCs. And they will all be six inches tall."

http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb ... 364#000011

 

[Sol Invictus]

Calling Avernum's graphics 'dated' is like saying that Daikatana is an 'average' game.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

PC Gamer also gave the original Avernum something like a 20% and called it the gaming equivalent of vomit asphyxiation.

That being said, Vogel's games' graphics are god-awful. They're definitely approaching that magical breaking point where gameplay doesn't matter for shit anymore--the game is just too ugly.

 

[Sol Invictus]

The original Avernum definitely rekindles near-death experiences involving vomit and choking, even if you've never had any near-death experiences involving the aforementioned things.

 

[Anonymous]

The first Avernum is one of the best RPGs i've ever played..

When it comes to reviewing RPGs, I think people that are total graphics whores (Mainstream magazines like PCGamer and people like Exitium) shouldnt be allowed near them.

oh noes, simple graphics, I just cant play it because I have the attention span of a 4 year old and cant read or play with anything that doesnt have a bunch of flashy shit flying all over.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Nobody's asking for a bunch of flashy shit. I'm just asking for graphics that are at least on par with other shareware games. If there's games like Zone 66 (released in 1994) that can look a billion times better than BOA, there's just no excuse.

 

[almondblight]

I forgot, goldbox rpg's sucked. So does nethack. In 10 years, Fallout will suck.