Interview Brian Heins talks about Tyranny and the nature of evil at PCGamesN

[mutonizer]

an absolute ruler just as I said it most likely was in the last thread

Just like almost all cRPG settings out there.

Anyway, past that "evil won" bullshit, the idea of starting as some kind of lieutenant is both interesting (if done right) and annoying.
I love starting from scratch in cRPGs usually, the early low levels being the most fun and really where you get to define the foundation of the character, learn about the world, it's rules and whatnot. Part of the why I always come back to BG1 or ToEE, love that early game.
Starting as a lieutenant means you're not a newbie, you got history, training and you're already pretty good at something. Unless there's an extensive DA:O style introduction for how you "came to be", they better have some serious character creation stuff in there or it might feel hard to get into for some.

There's also the laws part and your role. Since you'll be starting directly in that position of power, that means the player is already supposed to know all the laws, rules, cultures and whatnot of the area, as well as tons of people in various positions. If done properly, that could be great. If done as usual, that's just gonna suck.

 

[hivemind]

IIRC they plan to have a character creation thingy in which you decide the actions of your character during the conquest and this will both affect how the gameworld looks like and familiarize you with your characters past.

There's also the laws part and your role. Since you'll be starting directly in that position of power, that means the player is already supposed to know all the laws, rules, cultures and whatnot of the area, as well as tons of people in various positions.

 

[vivec]

Let it sink in. Its going to be a realtime action RPG, with the characteristic dissonance of a high magic, spell everywhere world and and 'realistic' human interaction.

 

[Excidium II]

Obsidian in charge of world building and systems design.

 

[ArchAngel]

IIRC they plan to have a character creation thingy in which you decide the actions of your character during the conquest and this will both affect how the gameworld looks like and familiarize you with your characters past.

There's also the laws part and your role. Since you'll be starting directly in that position of power, that means the player is already supposed to know all the laws, rules, cultures and whatnot of the area, as well as tons of people in various positions.

He meant it is going to suck if you start at lvl 1 and people acting like they never seen or heard of you before. And your conversations being like you were born yesterday like in PoE.

 

[Sacred82]

Azrael the cat

But again, I'm sure Kyros did do plenty of slaughtering and torturing, which we just don't know about yet.

Consider the Roman genocide of the Thracians... or was it the Dacians? Anyway, this sort of thing is bread and butter to any conqueror, especially when they have lofty excuses like spreading civilization, or in this case, rule of law.

At this point I'd guess that Kyros' evil will be made manifest in peasants shouting "help, I'm being oppressed!". Which should be enough to make SJW's hate his guts

 

[Arthandas]

Even if I read the title letter by letter, my mind still sees it as "TRANNY". Thank you codex.

 

[Grauken]

You're not the only one

 

[agris]

What I'm curious is how they'll make this into the "mandatory" epic adventure... you're not the underdog, but part of an empire that conquered the world. So if a dragon attacks, why not just radio for backup and stuffies?

It sounds like you're out in the field and doing actual work, which I take to mean you are a grunt and expendable. You are the backup.

The PC is still no common grunt though, he answers to someone who answers directly to the emperor.

To me it sounds like the hook for "epic adventure" is that your ass is on the line to get a job done by any means necessary. You fought Kyros, were defeated, pledged your sword to him and are sent out to the hinterlands to achieve some goal in this newly conquered region. The gameplay will be in how to achieve that goal, and maybe even lead a rebellion. The point driving the narrative would be if you fuck up, displease Kyros by not completing his Fetch the Waterchip quest, your ass is grass.

 

[Trashos]

Judging by what I read in the interview, "evil won" has nothing to do with traditional evil. It just means that there are people with power over other people's lives, and you are one of them, and it is up to you how you excercize that power.

"Evil won" is a quick way to market to the modern western audience: Hey, this is not a democracy, there is a ruling class (a tyrant and his government) and you are one of them.

It sounds very intriguing to me. Unfortunately, the advertised dumbed down combat has put me off too much already, but the premise sounds very interesting, even if the marketing is misleading as usual.

It may even be a metaphor for globalization, but we 'll see.

 

[hpstg]

I just want the premise to deliver something interesting. I don't give a shit about long ass playthroughs and the combat simply needs to have good gfx to fit with the theme of the game. I care neither about its balance nor its depth for this one. It's not Battletech.

I'm cheap like that.

I also find very positive that they re invest slam dunk money back to new-ip isometric RPGs, instead of milking.

 

[Fenix]

I'm not sure what's the point of applying Enlightenment classical liberal criteria, really.

I'm honestly don't really belive that you don't understand what's the point in diging over the history, to present simplified look on it - the point for that crime is always in the present, because of present's influence on the future.

Btw, thanks for your post that bring sanity in this madness.

My expectations are that Tranny will perfectly fit SJW agenda and neo-marxist agenda as whole.

So what exactly did Sauron do that made him so evil?

According to the Russians, not much!

(I'm sure you've read this)

Oh shit, this description sound interesting even in English lol, how I could miss this (maybe because I'm not a fun of doubtful and controversial Tolkien's moralism).

Hey, this is not a democracy, there is a ruling class (a tyrant and his government) and you are one of them.

Sounds like you really think that democracy really exist lol.

 

[Prime Junta]

Oh shit, this description sound interesting even in English lol, how I could miss this (maybe because I'm not a fun of doubtful and controversial Tolkien's moralism).

It's a fun read. Very Russian, with War-and-Peace-esque pontification at every opportunity. Starts out as a gritty war story and at some point it morphs into Tom Clansky in Middle-Earth, and has a few neat twists and turns on the way.

 

[MrE]

Judging by what I read in the interview, "evil won" has nothing to do with traditional evil. It just means that there are people with power over other people's lives, and you are one of them, and it is up to you how you excercize that power.

"Evil won" is a quick way to market to the modern western audience: Hey, this is not a democracy, there is a ruling class (a tyrant and his government) and you are one of them.

It sounds very intriguing to me. Unfortunately, the advertised dumbed down combat has put me off too much already, but the premise sounds very interesting, even if the marketing is misleading as usual.

Depends what you mean by 'traditional evil'. Because in ancient times, which Tyranny is supposed to take inspiration from to some extent, the fact that 'there are people with power over other people's lives' is about the main source of misfortune - one man's loss is another man's gain. No concept of pure evil back then, it only came later, with monotheistic religions' rise to significance and associated simplification of people's worldviews. In Greek, Roman, Egyptian polytheistic pantheons there are no equivalents of Satan. Sure there's Hades or Set in Egypt but they weren't seen as evil either, chaotic at worst, and people still build temples for them and prayed there. 'Good' and 'evil' were subjective, relative and seen as faces of the same coin. Or, a parallel they couldn't draw back then, considering all the gods' individual interests - faces of the same D20.

I think Obsidian perhaps used 'traditional evil' in the Christian meaning exactly because it's immediately understandable by 'the modern western audience', even though it shouldn't in fact be used in such a way if they are going for ancient Greek references. Anyway, I agree on misleading marketing.

If, as some people are suggesting they should, Obsidian was going for a more Dark Lord style rather than tyrant/dictator, a switch to Rome and taking inspiration from some of the emperors might work. But the more sadistic ones were also crazy, which might lead to unintended comedy, plus the 'bad' ones didn't do much conquering. And they might want a horse doing PC's job anyway.

 

[Trashos]

Sounds like you really think that democracy really exist lol.

Of course it does, people vote and all that. I don't have some idealized view of democracy, it is a system with advantages and disadvantages, like all systems are.

...

Very good post, MrE, we are almost in complete agreement. By "traditional evil", I really meant the "conventional notion of evil in current western culture". I should have worded it better.

I only have one objection:

Because in ancient times, which Tyranny is supposed to take inspiration from to some extent, the fact that 'there are people with power over other people's lives' is about the main source of misfortune - one man's loss is another man's gain

I am not convinced about "the main source of misfortune" part. Sure, often people with power treated others as livestock, but that was not necessarily the worst thing that could happen to someone.

 

[Fenix]

pontification

Pontification?
While I was reading description, I catch myself that this is book I always wanted to write, with different point of view, that so often lack at West. ))

No concept of pure evil back then, it only came later, with monotheistic religions' rise to significance and associated simplification of people's worldviews. In Greek, Roman, Egyptian polytheistic pantheons there are no equivalents of Satan.

Thanks for pointing this out. Sadly almost none have understanding of the consciousness of the ancient Greeks and antic world in general.

Of course it does, people vote and all that.

Yep, of course communism does exist, people vote and all that...

 

[Prime Junta]

pontification

Pontification?
While I was reading description, I catch myself that this is book I always wanted to write, with different point of view, that so often lack at West. ))

"This, then, was the yeast on which Barad-Dur rose six centuries ago, that amazing city of alchemists and poets, mechanics and astronomers, philosophers and physicians, the heart of the only civilization in Middle Earth to bet on rational knowledge and bravely pitch its barely adolescent technology against ancient magic. The shining tower of the Barad-Dur citadel rose over the plains of Mordor almost as high as Orodruin like a monument to Man – free Man who had politely but firmly declined the guardianship of the Dwellers on High and started living by his own reason. It was a challenge to the bone-headed aggressive West, which was still picking lice in its log ‘castles’ to the monotonous chanting of scalds extolling the wonders of never-existing Númenor. It was a challenge to the East, buckling under the load of its own wisdom, where Ying and Yang have long ago consumed each other, producing only the refined static beauty of the Thirteen Stones Garden. And it was a challenge to a certain someone else, for the ironic intellectuals of the Mordor Academy, unbeknownst to them, have come right up to the line beyond which the growth of their power promised to become both irreversible and uncontrollable."

Pontification.

Is a good read though, highly recommended.

 

[MrE]

Very good post, MrE, we are almost in complete agreement. By "traditional evil", I really meant the "conventional notion of evil in current western culture". I should have worded it better.

I only have one objection:

I am not convinced about "the main source of misfortune" part. Sure, often people with power treated others as livestock, but that was not necessarily the worst thing that could happen to someone.

Thanks. Perhaps 'the most common' would be more appropriate than 'main' - seems that in the ancient times events such as floods/volcano eruptions/earthquakes/invasions of foreign armies were considered on a par with let's say a heavy thunderstorm. Ancient people, even the unwashed villagers who didn't know there were any philosophical schools existing, were all to some extent stoic as they took all the above listed calamities as standard parts of life. A matter of perception I guess, they were just more likely to rise against a more direct oppression and fight it rather than complain endlessly about X event that took place in a given year. After all, with their life expectancy, diseases, wars and famine being a given they considered themselves lucky if they avoided any of the above mentioned occurrences in their lifetime.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

So you guys are really complaining that you'll be given a wider range of options than just doing nonsensical stupid shit like killing puppies for over a dozen hours

 

[flabbyjack]

I don't know about this new Tranny game guys, I don't think gamers are ready for it.

 

[an Administrator]

There is a question.....
What can change the nature of evil?

 

[ArchAngel]

I don't know about this new Tranny game guys, I don't think gamers are ready for it.

Maybe not, but gaymers are.

 

[Telengard]

So you guys are really complaining that you'll be given a wider range of options than just doing nonsensical stupid shit like killing puppies for over a dozen hours

In a traditional RPG, I can:

• talk to the puppies
• kill the puppies
• romance the puppies

In an evil RPG, I can

• talk to the puppies
• kill the puppies
• wee wee on the puppies, or have them wee wee on me (puppies do what puppies do best!)

C&C at its best.

 

[ArchAngel]

So you guys are really complaining that you'll be given a wider range of options than just doing nonsensical stupid shit like killing puppies for over a dozen hours

In a traditional RPG, I can:

• talk to the puppies
• kill the puppies
• romance the puppies

In an evil RPG, I can

• talk to the puppies
• kill the puppies
• wee wee on the puppies, or have them wee wee on me (puppies do what puppies do best!)

C&C at its best.

In evil RPG you can also romance the puppies, marry them, murder them, take their family money.

 

[Tigranes]

ITT people presume that evil-won RPG means everything is supposed to change drastically and then criticises said RPG for not changing everything drastically before getting enough info to tell whether it has changed things drastically or not