Indie Call of Saregnar - a Betrayal at Krondor-inspired RPG

[Rhuantavan]

Man, I just love the atmosphere of this night scene. Even with just these few elements, it already feels mysterious and interesting to explore. The low draw distance and fogged-out silhouettes in the distance really add to the effect.

Thanks, though it's just screenshot magic The current emptiness of the landscape is easily hidden by the near walls of the inn, the cobbled street and the dim torchlight with the cold blueish fog in the distance. Still, with more buildings, trees, and other objects, I believe I can create this feeling throughout the game, no matter from which POV you are looking at the world.

 

[Guy de Incognito]

There, I am opening my own thread for Call of Saregnar, so I won't be spamming the Codexian game development thread as much.

For those of you who don't know the project, it is a (BaK & RoA-influenced) low-magic story- and exploration-centric RPG that I've been developing for the past couple of years. If you want to know more, just hop over to https://www.facebook.com/CallOfSaregnar/ or visit my home page at http://www.damjanmozetic.si.

Thanks for looking!

Here's a freshly-textured bridge running in the game.

That's so Krondor-y... it really takes me back... to yesterday, when I last played BaK.
In the interest of seeing this game finished, I'd suggest spending as little time as possible doing your own models/graphics.

Also, have you thought about making the game procedural like Daggerfall? If you're not planning some complicated natural-looking layouts, and if you can make houses and terrains modular, you could one-up Krondor by making the whole thing procedural. Then you could apply rules like the colder the climate, the more sloped roofs are, or the poorer the settlement, the more decrepit textures look, and by having player's actions affect the settlement, it could change dynamically which I don't remember seeing in a RPG. Plus by making everything modular, you will also make it easy to import art assets later and concentrate on making the core of the game right now.

Sigh, looking at this I wish I'd set my sights higher with my game. This looks like so much fun.

 

[Rhuantavan]

That's so Krondor-y... it really takes me back... to yesterday, when I last played BaK.
In the interest of seeing this game finished, I'd suggest spending as little time as possible doing your own models/graphics.

Also, have you thought about making the game procedural like Daggerfall? If you're not planning some complicated natural-looking layouts, and if you can make houses and terrains modular, you could one-up Krondor by making the whole thing procedural. Then you could apply rules like the colder the climate, the more sloped roofs are, or the poorer the settlement, the more decrepit textures look, and by having player's actions affect the settlement, it could change dynamically which I don't remember seeing in a RPG. Plus by making everything modular, you will also make it easy to import art assets later and concentrate on making the core of the game right now.

Sigh, looking at this I wish I'd set my sights higher with my game. This looks like so much fun.

Hah, at least you have a playable game

But I can't have it procedural, as it wouldn't go with the world I've created in detail. But even if I could, procedural generation feels so lifeless to me. I want to hand-place buildings, bridges, props, enemies, even trees, ... everything. Besides, modeling and texturing feels pretty straightforward to me, even if I am relatively a beginner. Buying them, on the other hand, is a no-go as there are simply no models that would fit my requirements. To hire somebody else to do it is also a no-go, as I am broke.

 

[Rhuantavan]

Just another screenshot featuring a cart I've made and parallax'd mountains in the background.

 

[Jaesun]

This is like the graphic pr0n thread <3

 

[Rhuantavan]

I've been wondering at the possible ways to implement the characters (party/enemies/NPCs) in the game, and would love to hear your ideas on the subject.

As of now, I am considering two possibilities:

1. Have low-poly 3D models with low-res textures on them (like the rest of the models I've created), or perhaps med-to-high-poly models with low-res textures.
PRO: Relatively easy and fast to do, can easily change character's equipment
CON: Low-poly models may look too dated, while high-poly may crash with the overall look of the game.

2. Rotoscoped animations of actual people, then recolored/edited. Pretty much what Betrayal at Krondor had.
PRO: Looking good, but that's it
CON: So much work (getting people and armor/clothing, then photograph them all in all possible poses), hard to swap equipment (would have to draw/photograph a gazillion of combinations)... it is practically a nightmare and most probably unfeasible.

... ok, I am just wishing I could afford 2., but 1. is winning by a big margin.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Having high-poly stuff might help at telling them apart from the environment, that might be a good thing. Or reserve the good stuff for player models? Alternately, how about miniature style stuff, the boardgamey look can offset the clash with the low poly environment maybe? Dunno, just spitballing here.

 

[Rhuantavan]

Having high-poly stuff might help at telling them apart from the environment, that might be a good thing. Or reserve the good stuff for player models? Alternately, how about miniature style stuff, the boardgamey look can offset the clash with the low poly environment maybe? Dunno, just spitballing here.

Keep on spitballing bros, the miniature-style stuff is interesting, although I am going for a realistic look... Maybe for combat.

 

[Wayward Son]

Option 1. Whatever means this game isn't lost in limbo.

 

[Durwyn]

Sprites from 3D models. Just like MMVI-VIII, pretty please.

 

[Mustawd]

Sprites from 3D models. Just like MMVI-VIII, pretty please.

This. Just render the 3D model into a 2D image.

Pros:

-Easily posable with a good skeleton
-Customizable
-Number of free 3D models available to start as a base

Cons: Depends on 3D skills

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I'm all for low-poly models, even if they look dated to some people. Come on, there aren't so many 90-s RPGs which offer full 3D graphics, I don't want to play Summoner, Ultima IX and Descent to Undermountain until I die.

You can turn them into sprites if they're far away, I guess.

If you're not planning to add the mouselook to the game, then you could try experimenting with Soulbringer-like sprites. Basically, you render every limb as a sprite attached to the skeleton, but I doubt it would look as good in the non-isometric perspective.

I guess trying each possible look by making a model or two just to see how it looks is a good idea, though.

 

[Jaesun]

I would recommend you try a bunch of different styles, and see how they look in the game (if that is technically feasible for you to do so). Sometimes even something you just don't think would work well, can actually turn out well.

 

[Rhuantavan]

Sprites from 3D models. Just like MMVI-VIII, pretty please.

This. Just render the 3D model into a 2D image.

Pros:

-Easily posable with a good skeleton
-Customizable
-Number of free 3D models available to start as a base

Cons: Depends on 3D skills

Thanks for the ideas, but I'm not sure about this one, since I would already need to have good-looking 3d models and have the extra step to render them. Also making changes would mean re-rendering the models. Pretty much like the rotoscoped variant, but not as good looking imho. I understand the games at the time did this, so they could have 3d-like characters without the overhead of actual 3d models.

I'm all for low-poly models, even if they look dated to some people. Come on, there aren't so many 90-s RPGs which offer full 3D graphics, I don't want to play Summoner, Ultima IX and Descent to Undermountain until I die.

You can turn them into sprites if they're far away, I guess.

If you're not planning to add the mouselook to the game, then you could try experimenting with Soulbringer-like sprites. Basically, you render every limb as a sprite attached to the skeleton, but I doubt it would look as good in the non-isometric perspective.

I guess trying each possible look by making a model or two just to see how it looks is a good idea, though.

I'm not familiar with Soulbringer, but the characters look a bit comical as they move. Otherwise the gfx are quite inspiring... will have to check that one out.
I will not implement mouselook, no. I want the mouse free to click on stuff in the viewport.

I would recommend you try a bunch of different styles, and see how they look in the game (if that is technically feasible for you to do so). Sometimes even something you just don't think would work well, can actually turn out well.

I will try a couple of styles you guys mentioned, starting with low-poly 3d models. I'm sure that if the animations are good, then the low number of tris will not matter. There is one problem though, I haven't done any humanoid modeling, rigging or animating, but I'm merely familiar with it. In the long run, if I go for this style, I may have to get some help modeling the characters, since I have no experience in this field. We'll see after I manage to have one character done.

 

[Mustawd]

I will try a couple of styles you guys mentioned, starting with low-poly 3d models. I'm sure that if the animations are good, then the low number of tris will not matter. There is one problem though, I haven't done any humanoid modeling, rigging or animating, but I'm merely familiar with it. In the long run, if I go for this style, I may have to get some help modeling the characters, since I have no experience in this field. We'll see after I manage to have one character done.

Use Makehuman. You can import the model into Blender with a pre-made skeleton.

http://www.makehuman.org/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkgBCJjxQcU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz-j4dcA6YE

 

[Rhuantavan]

Use Makehuman. You can import the model into Blender with a pre-made skeleton.

http://www.makehuman.org/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkgBCJjxQcU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz-j4dcA6YE

Thanks, looks promising!

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

2D renders of some high poly 3d models that have good riggings. Get said models from Makehuman, Poser, Daz3D, Adobe Fuse (not sure what kind of licenses these have...) Drop resolution of renders until it looks good with your 3D world.

It'd be kind of like your option 2, but with 3D models instead of real people.

What kind of camera angles you're planning to have? Only the ones that were in Krondor?

 

[Rhuantavan]

2D renders of some high poly 3d models that have good riggings. Get said models from Makehuman, Poser, Daz3D, Adobe Fuse (not sure what kind of licenses these have...) Drop resolution of renders until it looks good with your 3D world.

It'd be kind of like your option 2, but with 3D models instead of real people.

What kind of camera angles you're planning to have? Only the ones that were in Krondor?

Yes, pretty much the same. If there is one thing that I believe really important, is that the characters have life-like faces.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

It'd be kind of like your option 2, but with 3D models instead of real people.

Dancing Baby DLC incoming?

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

It'd be kind of like your option 2, but with 3D models instead of real people.

Dancing Baby DLC incoming?

Shouldn't it be golden?

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

It'd be kind of like your option 2, but with 3D models instead of real people.

Dancing Baby DLC incoming?

Shouldn't it be golden?

I'm sure Rhuantavan worked 12 hours on it yesterday and it'll come out real soon. Like, for real. Like, before the base game is out.

BTW, unless I already asked, do you need a composer, Rhuantavan?

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

2D renders of some high poly 3d models that have good riggings. Get said models from Makehuman, Poser, Daz3D, Adobe Fuse (not sure what kind of licenses these have...) Drop resolution of renders until it looks good with your 3D world.

It'd be kind of like your option 2, but with 3D models instead of real people.

What kind of camera angles you're planning to have? Only the ones that were in Krondor?

Yes, pretty much the same. If there is one thing that I believe really important, is that the characters have life-like faces.

Life-like faces and low-poly models don't sound compatible. You'd need separate portrait graphics probably.

Krondor had very few animation frames. Almost none in the world view and not that many in combat view either. If the same works for you too, the renders/photos/sprites route shouldn't be that bad, I'd guess...

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Or you can remove the faces altogether.
Problem solved.

 

[Rhuantavan]

BTW, unless I already asked, do you need a composer, Rhuantavan?

I might, though I wasn't looking for one yet, since the game is so early in the development. PM if you're interested.

Life-like faces and low-poly models don't sound compatible. You'd need separate portrait graphics probably.

Yes, I would probably keep 2D portrait and 3D model styles separate.

Krondor had very few animation frames. Almost none in the world view and not that many in combat view either. If the same works for you too, the renders/photos/sprites route shouldn't be that bad, I'd guess...

Actually, I would need more, since I don't have BaK's step-size movement to mask the enemy wandering around the map.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I might, though I wasn't looking for one yet, since the game is so early in the development. PM if you're interested.

Done and done.