Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Interview Chris Avellone on What Makes a Great RPG at IGN

Hirato

Purse-Owner
Patron
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
4,001
Location
Australia
Codex 2012 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Just spawn custom light sources. I've seen the games that Obsidian made. They're not visual masterpieces. Lighting was basically shit in KotOR 2 and Fallout: NV anyway, for example.
When you're dealing with games that had obsolete lighting models like Fallout New Vegas had, you're also dealing with a very strict limitation on the number of lights that can be present in a set area too.
Neverwinter Nights' is actually better than FO:NV's, and I believe Kotor 2 would been built on a newer revision of the Aurora Engine.

Look, we're talking tech like in Fallout: New Vegas, where the physics are a joke and everyone is more or less expecting wooden animations. You could easily make some idle animations for trees that look like physics and it could easily look better than the regular physics stuff. Or we're talking tech like KotOR 2, or Pillars of Eternity, or Torment. MCA was overwhelmingly dealing with people who pushed back against creative ambitions rather than genuine engine limitations and unmanageable complexity.
Even as big a joke as it was in Fallout New Vegas, that iteration of Havok was capable of far more complex shapes than the cubes and cylinders I mentioned, as long as you provided the collision meshes for it.
So you're not really disproving my point here.

And to take your example; more modern engines allow you to rig up a tree (i.e. to define branches and stuff) as a standard model, and then paint weights on the branches to define how they reactive they are to wind.
Then the engine can track explosions (e.g. a source of compressive wind), other sources of wind, natural wind, etc, and naturally deform the trees this way without the animators having to animate even single a leaf.

I think you're trying to make this sound more complex than it has to be. Yes, if you implement an entire city, you have to consider a city's worth of content and scripting, but the idea that it becomes an exponentially more difficult task simply because you're spawning assets into a location is overblown. Unless you are dealing with some weird shit, that really doesn't have to hold true. And if we're talking small settlements, then it's definitely feasible.
I'm not really saying it's complex, tools can be easily made to automate this part;
But when there's overlap, i.e. lights added in one thing end up casting shadows on things added by other variables, this adds permutations that need to be catered for.
And you'll need combinations of lightmaps, waypoints, and collision data for each, which massively bloats filesize, and in the case of lightmaps, can quickly exhaust your VRAM constraints.

Honestly old engines could also handle a lot of this shit. If you decided to make a 3D RPG using the Unreal Engine for instance, a lot of the problems you mentioned were avoidable.
Unreal (at least very old versions of it) would be one of those I mentioned that'd only have cubes (and at best cylinders) available for models and entities dynamically added to the game world.
It's also one of those engines that depend on having lightmaps and proper collision data baked into the maps.
It was able to swap predefined parts of the level with others on the fly when the correct gamestate was triggered.



There are ways to avoid the problems, but it usually required you to roll your own tech that catered for your own needs, and make your own tradeoffs.
Want to dynamically spawn obstacles on the fly? keep them simple to what the engine supports for dynamic entities
Don't want to deal with complex 3D collision data and pathfinding? abstract your game as 2D with a 3D presentation and avoid it.
Don't want to deal with the storage requirements for lightmaps? base your system on dynamic lights with all their tradeoffs (no shadows, limited shading, very limited number available at any time, etc)


There's been massive strides in hardware and game engines since those times.
The quality is still below that of lightmaps, but full realtime lighting and shadows is both completely feasible and highly standard, with no weird restrictions on the number of lights or the quality of shading.
Physics engines (e.g. Havok, Bullet, ODE, etc) that are able to deal with complex shapes and collision models on the fly are widely used, so you don't need to store it in the map files
We have systems like Recast available to generate navmesh data on the fly.

We've more or less reached a point where game designers can literally just add and remove things from the world,
And all the engine systems will quickly move to accommodate it without any worry or further input required.
And without any overhead to the map files for having to store auxiliary data, except for maybe an additional entity's entry that swaps from disabled to enabled (or vice versa).
 

Xzylvador

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
388
Location
The rich part of Europe
Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Out of the loop here, why do you guys call Chris Avellone MCA?

Michelle Chris Avelone.
When (s)he switched gender, he changed his name and dropped the Michelle part. Also doesn't really mention it anywhere because he doesn't want the LBGT thing having an effect on his writing.
Because of that, he's regarded as an example -not cramming in :rainbow: propaganda everywhere no matter how hamfisted, just because it's an important message; it has to fit the story or not, that's all that matters- and the Codex honors him for it by using the old initials.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom