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Codex legal eagles, Van Buren needs you!

Discussion in 'Van Buren: A Fallout Adventure' started by Vaarna_Aarne, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    So the purpose of this topic is to let Codexers WHO ARE QUALIFIED to provide legal assistence to do just that. We're going to have to take care of this stuff too due to working with the Fallout IP, and when it comes to stuff like finding out free songs, various contracts we have to do, and all that jazz.

    So, the first question to Codex Van Buren Legal Defense Squadron:


    Legal status and the steps to possibly using this lovely and extremely fitting on multiple levels song as the main theme for Van Buren:

     
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  2. hiver Guest

    hiver
    Zero. Are you utterly retarded? (rhetorical)
     
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  3. hexer Guest

    hexer
    hiver... dude, chill.
     
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  4. Trephs Novice

    Trephs
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    The song is pretty good and quite fitting, appreciate your choice, however rights-keepers guys may bitch about the song once VB is released. Not sure if they'll track it's used in your project if everybody is silent about it.
     
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  5. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    Wish I could help, as I'm a law student (probably not for much longer), but I don't know shit about US copyright laws.
    Doesn't stuff become more or less free for use after 75 years or something?
     
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  6. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

    SCO
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    Just provide a way for the game to call a song generically. Then 'suggest' a playlist for the users to download/rip.
     
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  7. I suggest the game be renamed to "Van Buren Saga". That will solve all our problems.
     
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  8. Trephs Novice

    Trephs
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    Codenaming doesn't make sense here, would be better to rename to "The Prisoner's Story: Wasteland Adventure" or something like that.
     
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  9. hiver Guest

    hiver
    You aint never going to get any damn rights for any actual song of that kind. What are you? all on lighter gas? glue?

    youdbe lucky if you can find anything good enough for free or maybe get some amateur "composer" to do some ambient tracks for you.

    you have other things to worry about (namely what to do with the main plot, the story of the game, the characters and the way it all resolves, just to mention a few minor things...), then some megalomanic notions of using professional copyrighted songs.
    ffs... Interplay and original fallout team couldnt get some, and they could pay for it.
     
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  10. MotherMachinae Arcane

    MotherMachinae
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    Testing your luck ain't? Well, you did good with Beth and switching engine but you should stay away from music rightholder mobs or what they called. And focus on the mod.

    I know you want to make it faithful to original but seriously - in this matter you shouldn't.

    Or just find some amateur who make it.
     
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  11. Awor Szurkrarz Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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    Codex 2012
    Or Van Candy :D .
     
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  12. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Question was regarding more about what it'd entail and so on. Basically pure luck testing to see what (possible) legal professionals have to say about what'd entail. It's not a priority thing. Maybe in the future we might have actual Serious Questions in this thread.

    EDIT: And as an update for this, YES WE CAN

     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
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  13. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    :bro:

    Told ya!

    It is a lovely song, in fact, and the lyrics match perfectly with the game, and the theme.

    Also, I love how good ol' american singers were so good and their singing was so... I don't know, clean. Most kwan singers today have this slurring english that's just semi-incomprehensible.
     
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  14. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    It not only fits in with the overall story elements, it's also fitting given how Van Buren was originally canned by Interplay.
     
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  15. Whisky The Solution

    Whisky
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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
    Yes! The song is so perfect, what with nostalgia being a big part of the story. Just like Maybe from F1, it's just too perfect.
     
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  16. hiver Guest

    hiver
    good score. hafta say.
     
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  17. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    For other media: you could always say that your project is intended for use in countries that do not recognize Mickey Mouse copyright laws.

    If someone on the internet pirates the work you did for the people of Chad, there's nothing you can do! :lol:
     
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  18. Jaesun Fabulous Moderator

    Jaesun
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    Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
    THAT is actually a very fitting song for this project. We finally get to meet Fallout, again. Instead of the shitty action game that was made. :salute:
     
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  19. MotherMachinae Arcane

    MotherMachinae
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    In that case - you got my brofist.
    Ink Spot because what else.
     
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  20. LundB Mistakes were made.

    LundB
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    The fact that it's up there and being downloaded pretty much means nobody gives a shit, so you're probably safe. However, and I really hate to rain on your parade, it is NOT in fact legally in the public domain, at least not in the US (where it was recorded and copyrighted). Whoever uploaded that to archive.org was sadly incorrect (I'm reasonably sure I know what had them confused, and I'll get into it later in the post).

    Obviously, copyright law is a clusterfuck with differences between various nations. For example, in the UK a sound recording made in 1941 (like this one) would have entered the public domain on Jan. 1st, 1992, since at that point copyright on sound recordings in the UK lasted 50 years (as of this November, it changed to 70 years, but was not retroactive for recordings already in the public domain).

    In the US however, the law is different (and pretty much fucks anyone but the rights-holders). I'm gonna spoilertag, since otherwise this might get a bit tl;dr and there's no real need for most people to read it, but the mod team certainly should before deciding how to proceed:
    Show Spoiler
    What a lot of people don't get is that sound recordings are treated differently from most other kinds of IP, including published music (the music itself, not a recording). Most other stuff is protected for either ninety-five years from publication or 70 years after the death of the author (Exception: If said thing was published prior to 1923, it's already public domain). Recordings, like the Ink Spots' rendition of that song, are different however.

    The reason for this can be found in the U.S. Copyright Act of 1976, § 301(c):
    This means that the law covers only recordings made after February 15, 1972, and all those made prior to that date would remain under state
    law. Before the 1976 Act, sound recordings were not covered by federal law, so this passage was intended to create a smoother transition from state coverage to federal coverage, avoiding any recordings inadvertently falling into the public domain. What this means is that under current law, all pre-02/15/1972 sound recordings will remain under state or common law until 2067, at which point they will be made public domain under the rules of federal law. I suspect the reason the guy uploaded it on archive.org as 'public domain' was because he read that pre-1972 recordings are not covered by federal copyright law, and did not realise that this is not the same as not being covered by any copyright law, and that the preexisting non-federal copyrights are still very much active.

    It might seem safe, but people CAN get fucked hard over violations. See: The 2005 Capitol v. Naxos case, where Naxos, a distributor of 1930s classical recordings, was up against the apparent US rights-holder of some of said recordings. The judges ruled against Naxos, and declared that as the state had no explicit laws dealing with sound recording copyright, they were governed by common law. End result? The rights-holders hold the rights forever (in reality, until said common law ruling is superseded by federal law in 2067). Investigations into the laws of a number of states have found that in most, recordings are covered by common law as they were in New York, under permanent control of the rights-holders. There might be a few states where it's legal, but all it takes is one download in a state where it's illegal to be actionable.

    Basically what this means is that under US copyright law, there are VERY few sound recordings that are actually in the public domain. They consist mainly of recordings released by the rights-holders themselves, recordings made by the US government (arguably, since the US gov can't hold copyrights), and various oddities anyone without real familiarity with copyright law would have trouble recognizing. Much of the stuff people incorrectly think is in the public domain is because of misinterpretation of the law, and even if they escape the notice of the rights-holders, what they are doing is in fact illegal.

    For a pretty easy to understand guide to all this sound recording public domain stuff, see this list.


    So basically yeah, if you use it you PROBABLY won't be noticed or faced with legal action, since they most likely won't care too much if it isn't a commercial product. However if legal action is taken you should know that it will not go in your favour, as the material is in fact still copyrighted, not public domain, and distributing it with your mod would be illegal.

    Like I said, I'm sorry about raining on the parade, but you asked for information about the actual law (instead of vague internet optimism and assumptions based on poor understanding of a copyright law wikipedia entry or the assurances of some archive.org moron), so that's what you're getting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
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  21. Vaarna_Aarne Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    LundB will you be our court jew?
     
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  22. Humanity has risen! Arcane Patron Repressed Homosexual

    Humanity has risen!
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    I miss the trend of heartfelt songs and gentlemen negroes, but I don't miss the trend of repeating the same lyrics twice, in song form and in conversation form, though.
     
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  23. LundB Mistakes were made.

    LundB
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    No, since I'm not a lawyer, just someone who's become reasonably familiar with IP law in a few countries due to work. Maybe hire Metro instead? He's a proper lawyer, I hear he got some company out of trouble for toxins in baby formula, or dumping waste in a small town's drinking water, or some other shady shit I forget the details of.
     
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  24. omnimercurial Novice

    omnimercurial
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    I really like this version! :)

    Can't stand the Vera Lynn version. Far too shrill and piercing.
     
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  25. The_scorpion Liturgist

    The_scorpion
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    stay away from US Law. Keep your files in Servers outside the US and comparabale retard jurisdictions. Distribute through Europe only. Of course not easy with the Internet being controlled by the kaw. Use choice of law and venue that make sense. There's still risks of Retard jurisdictions' courts claiming jurisdiction on any infringements, because of the nature of IP Law, however if the Team and the files are located outside the Retard jurisdictions and it's a non-Commercial Project, any lawsuit would be rather stupid from a rational Point of view. i don't advise to pirate stuff, of course. Rightholders might agree for you to use Contents for small jewgolds or even free if your Project is a small and non-Commercial one anyway.

    The most likely event is that nobody bothers.
     
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