Review Codex Mount & Blade Review

[DarkUnderlord]

Tags: Armagan; Mount & Blade; TaleWorlds

We pass the Codex' critical eye over <a href="http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=188">last year's indie release: Mount & Blade</a>:
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<blockquote>Joining a faction ultimately involves you in the world's politics. Which are completely non-existant. All it does is let you attack war parties from Kingdoms your faction is at war at... but that's really about it. Sure, you can wander into the empty, lifeless cities but much like your own predicament, you get the feeling the citizens of this world were simply dumped there and told to kill stuff. You've got no sense of the world. Not even a lousy book or newspaper or message boy to say what's happening. Just lifeless messages scrolling across the bottom left of the screen. Lord X was defeated in battle and managed to escape (like you're supposed to care).
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[...]
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On horseback, you are an unstoppable killing machine. A fast horse means enemy horses aren't a problem and most of the time, you can avoid them anyway and focus on them one by one until they're down. A few minutes later and you're done. Unless of course you happen to make a bad judgement call and your own horse is killed beneath you. This is when combat goes from pathetically easy to ridiculously hard. The people you fight are often as good as you, even when you have full skills. So it comes down to getting the first hit in quickly and then hitting them repeatedly (which knocks them back each time, allowing you to hit them again) until they're dead. If they hit you first, you're screwed as they keep hitting you. Particularly against multiple foes. There's no real skill at sword-play, it's just "avoid getting hit at all costs". You can block but often they just attack again immediately meaning there's no time for you to counter-attack. One-on-one it's not so bad. Just run away from them (only ever so slightly out of range) until they swing, after they inevitably do, turn around and attack yourself. They'll hopefully fall over, giving you ample opportunity to finish them off. Though if you're up against large numbers of footmen and you're alone, then you're in trouble.
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That's where your army comes in...</blockquote>
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If you still don't know just what's so good (and so bad) about Mount & Blade, read through the rest of our epic™ review: <a href="http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=188">A Long Hard Look at Mount and Blade</a>.

 

[Castanova]

Wow, that was the longest review of all time! Got the point across, though.

 

[Monocause]

Good review. One correction though - there is a way to scroll the world map around, just use the WSAD keys.

 

[Nedrah]

tl;dr

Actually, I went through most of it and as Castanova said, it's pretty much spot on. I'm unclear on the scrolling issue, though. I think you can scroll wherever you want using wasd

Edit: Wait, you mentioned the scrolling issue? I must have really been distracted.

 

[Dire Roach]

I read only a couple of paragraphs and skimmed through the rest, but it seems like you didn't mention the "retire from adventuring" option? It's the only thing in the game that provides you with a concrete goal (get a high score), although it seems like your chosen motivation to go adventuring has no impact whatsoever on the title and text that you get from it.

 

[Smarts]

There's no quest to incite war with another faction (unless I missed it), it just happens in the background.

When your side is at peace, sometimes some of the more disreputable lords will offer quests to attack other sides' caravans in the hope of inciting war.

 

[sheek]

Good review, though the criticism of character development was pretty stupid.

The description of skills barely brushed the surface. There are many useful skills (Shield, Power Draw/Throw, Tracking etc) and only a few completely useless (Training and Looting) , it's quite impressive how they managed to tie so many into the game mechanics, and if you neglected a skill you suddenly decide you need at level 30 that's your own damn fault.

 

[sheek]

Actually, this is a fucking awesome review. I knew how absurd the economic and political systems were (and so never bother with them), but DU really spells it out.

M&B is very much a "choose your own adventure" style open sandbox. Only without any tools. A sandbox without water to make mud and build castles or without a shovel to dig a hole or without a tonka truck is well... just sand that falls through your fingers. You can make uninteresting mounds out of it but that's about it. That's pretty much the sandbox M&B presents you with. There's really not much you can do other than kill everyone you meet and when that's done, you join another faction and kill everyone again or start your own faction in order to kill everyone. And by everyone, yes, you quite literally will be in every battle doing most of the killing.

The factions declare war (and peace) on each other randomly. It's never a result of your actions. There's no quest to incite war with another faction (unless I missed it), it just happens in the background. Usually while you're travelling the World Map a message will pop-up: "The Kingdom of X declare war on the Kingdom of Y" and if you're aligned to either or, you get to kill those war parties too. Of course, no-one ever wipes anyone else out without your help. The declarations don't even seem to trigger responses from alliances. M&B is a sandbox but no matter how much you pee in it, it never turns to mud that'd allow you to build a sand castle. It remains sand, slipping ever through your fingers, leaving you with little choice other than to repeatedly dig holes or make little piles and knock them down.

Poetry.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/images/screensh ... _going.jpg
A picture worth 1,000 words.

 

[sheek]

On horseback, you are an unstoppable killing machine. A fast horse means enemy horses aren't a problem and most of the time, you can avoid them anyway and focus on them one by one until they're down. A few minutes later and you're done. Unless of course you happen to make a bad judgement call and your own horse is killed beneath you. This is when combat goes from pathetically easy to ridiculously hard. The people you fight are often as good as you, even when you have full skills. So it comes down to getting the first hit in quickly and then hitting them repeatedly (which knocks them back each time, allowing you to hit them again) until they're dead. If they hit you first, you're screwed as they keep hitting you. Particularly against multiple foes. There's no real skill at sword-play, it's just "avoid getting hit at all costs". You can block but often they just attack again immediately meaning there's no time for you to counter-attack. One-on-one it's not so bad. Just run away from them (only ever so slightly out of range) until they swing, after they inevitably do, turn around and attack yourself. They'll hopefully fall over, giving you ample opportunity to finish them off. Though if you're up against large numbers of footmen and you're alone, then you're in trouble.

You can move out of the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imqUrc6P ... annel_page

Not that great, but I've done better since.


edit: Goddam faggots disabled my audio! Can you believe it?

 

[Dire Roach]

There's no quest to incite war with another faction (unless I missed it), it just happens in the background.

When your side is at peace, sometimes some of the more disreputable lords will offer quests to attack other sides' caravans in the hope of inciting war.

Huh, I never knew about this. I do know that you can bring peace between two kingdoms through a quest the city guildmasters sometimes offer. It can be solved through violence and/or diplomacy.

M&B gives the impression of being a rather repetitive medieval battle simulator after playing it for a while, but you also tend to discover a lot of tiny hidden nuances over time that keep you interested.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I read only a couple of paragraphs and skimmed through the rest, but it seems like you didn't mention the "retire from adventuring" option? It's the only thing in the game that provides you with a concrete goal (get a high score), although it seems like your chosen motivation to go adventuring has no impact whatsoever on the title and text that you get from it.

Yeah, there are about three or four things I could've talked about more (more about the quests, options as a war marshall, even sheek talking about the useful skills) but I didn't want to make it any longer. There's a screenshot of retirement at the end. And really, the "you win" screen is about as boring as they come.

You can move out of the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imqUrc6P ... annel_page

Pfft... Arena battles were always easy with a good long weapon that allows you to get a run up and swing at them from a distance. Especially when the guys are only on you one at a time (notice all that running you're doing). Usually if I had the pole-arm it was a guaranteed win... assuming I could be assed fighting that many people for so long for so little reward. It was either the tournament (which was a lot easier because you had allies and a higher reward) or I preferred to be capturing Towns and Castles.

 

[sheek]

Yes the running thing is a major flaw, on the world map as well as in battles. Everybody has a constant speed so you can either outrun them all the time or you'll never be able to. Introducing some kind of speed variation (random changes limited to say - to + 10% of default) would make an instant difference there. Another very easy thing to combine with it would be fatigue (for both horses and men) which would gradually lower your movement speed as well as combat abilities (swing speed/damage, aiming).

But of course all of these and more (your economic/political points) have been suggested countless times... the economic/politics and story side sometimes implemented by modders. From viewing the latest "Warband" expansion Q&A it seems they're mainly interested in bump-maps, high dynamic range and bloom.

For the last two years I've only played Tournaments or Skirmish Quick Battles unless I'm testing a mod.

 

[Shannow]

only a few completely useless (Training and Looting) [skills].

You mean the skill that gets Khergits to lancer level in 2-4 days without fighting (I think it is bugged for Khergits) and the other nationalities at least into non-cannonfodder shape or the skill that provides you with much needed money whether you fight honourably or start razing helpless villages. Yeah, both completely useless

 

[Spectacle]

Weapon Master skill is quite useful too, since it also makes your weapon skills increase faster from use.

 

[sheek]

only a few completely useless (Training and Looting) [skills].

You mean the skill that gets Khergits to lancer level in 2-4 days without fighting (I think it is bugged for Khergits) and the other nationalities at least into non-cannonfodder shape or the skill that provides you with much needed money whether you fight honourably or start razing helpless villages. Yeah, both completely useless

As I said, for the reasons DU spelled out (shit game world) I never play with more than 30 troops (expensive mercs, hired blades etc) total including NPCs and with such small quantities yes it's worthless.

If you want to repeat DU's experience, LARPing a great lord or general, then yes it might be "worth it", but still pointless.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

The skills I'd say were mostly or fairly useless were:

• Weapon Master - There are better skills to spend points on and even with not much in it, you shouldn't find the weapon proficieny increases all that hard to come by through use. Either way, you're certainly not getting it in order to spend the 20 weapon points, so out of the 22 points you get on level up 90% are still worthless.
  
• Looting - Yay, more worthless crap that I either can't sell anyway or can only sell for a buck fifty. Also requires Inventory Management unless you plan on offloading after every battle - which necessitates long trips to towns that still have any money or inventory room left (Inventory Management is useful for stocking up on food for large parties).
  
• Engineer - Constructing improvements is useless, therefore a skill that makes them build faster is useless. Sieging castles quicker is actually a detriment, as sometimes you'll want that extra day anyway in order to heal for a second attack.
  
• Tactics - I think I covered this one well enough in the article.
  
• Persuasion - Given you do most of your persuading with a sword...
  
• Prisoner Management - Having prisoners was fun in the sense that slowing down your party across the World Map is always fun. Which means it's not. Given it's really only needed for a few quests and those quests are boring, also that the only worthwhile prisoners are the Lords you capture, there's not much need for it. I *think* it does allow you to capture Lords more easily (I haven't confirmed that) but given selling the Lords just means more fucking combat when they raise their instant-army again, it's not advised.
  
• Leadership - Renown is your friend and you can't afford a large party anyway (see Trade).
  
• Trade - Rendered useless more-so by the fucked economy than the skill itself (Given the small amounts of cash you're making and the large amounts you actually need).

Most of those skills are brought down by how the game was designed.

If you want to then say "useless for the main character to get" add all the party skills, which is basically about half the total available skills. Unless you like deliberately nerfing your own character by choosing Doctor skills at the expense of the combat ones (again, not advised given you'll be the one doing most of the killing).

Training I'd say was actually one of the really useful ones though. Even more so given all your heroes could get it and you'd basically have Khergit Lancers over-night as Shannow mentioned. It's just a pity the rest of the skills didn't stack like that... or that only your skills mattered and heroes could only get some combat skills.

 

[Wyrmlord]

You write some excruciatingly long reviews, DU.

 

[ghostdog]

That was a very well written review.

 

[GarfunkeL]

And block is useful but using it is harder than in other games since its not just block-whack-block-whack but rather block-block-block-whack-whack-whack or block-block-whack-block-whack. What I mean is that you have to gauge and learn the rhythm of your weapon and your opponent.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Very good review. Everything you need to know about Mount & Blade.

 

[Morkar Left]

I couldn´t read the entiry text but at least most of it. I can really understand your experience with M&B.
I wish they had implemented a storyline like storymod. With a plot the bad gamemechanics wouldn´t suck so much. And I´m missing a realistic day/night cycle and traveltime with the need to rest.
I can bitching about the game all the time. But i have to say i still really enjoy the game. I have bought it as a beta for 15 $ but even 30 $ are worth the money compared to the time i spent with the game (and i still spend).
You could have wrote more about the mods out here like Native expansion and Sword of Damocles (which both greatly improve the gameplay in the longterm) or just the graphic improvements. Especially with the kingdom management mods do an amazing difference.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

All I want is permadeath for Lords/companions


And, er, lots of other things. But that's the most glaringly irritating aspect, especially when you take over the entire world apart from one city and every Lord who has ever existed is defending it.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Gee...I can't wait for the PC market to crash through piracy and ineptitude so that we only have indies left. They really fill that FO/PS:T/DE gap.

 

[Pr()ZaC]

Sublime review!

Will you ever review mods for this game?

 

[Fenril]

Ahh Mount and Blade.

The very best indie game of the past years....wait fuck it, all time.

The only game that even after playing it to death several times somehow reappears on my desktop from time to time. I didnt bother reading the review since I know more than enough to have my own informed opinion.

Also I would say the sandbox structure is on par with say...darklands? No? Pretty damn close all things considered. Or with pirates gold. Or with wing commander privateer.

But since there have been so many recent attempts at "sandbox structure" games every critic labels it as underdeveloped. Oh well.

Of course everything is just window dressing for the flow of the combat and the fighting.
The game is not a story driven rpg not even an action-rpg by general definition. I believe it may be called an rpg or an action game or some kind of hybrid, doesnt matter.

The game IS THE COMBAT. One may get bored with the combat true, some sooner others later, but ill be damned if any other PC action game had a combat engine and system that was so engaging or kept me hooked for so long....and that I can actually come back to after a time away for it, and still enjoy it. On a side note the only way to truly appreciate mount and blade is at max difficulty, but I figure that is obvious enough.

Since this is the little indie league perhaps someone could point out that neither gothic nor Dark messiah, nor Rune, nor Severance, nor any of the bethsoft shit managed to make better melee combat, this even without considering the mounted combat aspect. Its obvious the mounted aspect has never been done better, or better has never been done like this. But even the melee...Is the melee system simple? Certainly, every combat element is simple, but it all comes together into a near perfect whole. Oh I could imagine ways to add more complexity and depth to each combat element, but I dont know if that would make it a better game.

So my fanboi cry : if you dont love mount and blade eat shit and die. painfully.

/end