Game News Colony Ship RPG Update #2: Design Goals, Mechanics

[hivemind]

Imagine you have a group of 4, sharing XP for quite a while and then you are losing 2 of them. Assuming a similar unforgiving system as in AoD wouldn't you run into serious troubles being left with 2 rather weaklings?

GOTY

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Connving (-5 honest abe, +5 Miltiades)

 

[Vault Dweller]

Are you planning anything similar to an influence system like what Obsidian's done with most of their rpgs? In other words, can any of those stats for a companion change based on your actions? Or can companions be more forgiving of actions that go against their views if they like you more?

I feel that the Obsidian system was a bit backwards in a sense that you didn't really influence your party members but told them what they expected to hear to make them like you more. It worked because the system itself was simple (like/dislike). Since we're going with 10 stats, it calls for a different and more realistic approach. You can't turn a liar into an honest man, you can't turn someone like Miltiades into an upstanding member of society with a few well-chosen words, you can't turn a liberal into a conservative overnight.

While the conversations will have *some* effect, they won't remove all tensions and disagreements caused by your actions.

Also, will conversations "unlock" with companions based on certain factors (i.e. previous conversations, their attitude toward you, main quest progress, etc.) the way they do in most party-based rpgs?

Since we aren't talking about personal stories, there isn't much to unlock. Most likely such conversations will be triggered by your actions (accepting a certain quest, handling a quest a certain way, etc).

Trying to figure out why I wouldn't want to pump Charisma in this system for every player character. More npcs means access to more content. Also a larger squad would generally be better at combat even if xp is split - especially since more access to gated content generally means more xp

Would a low charisma playthrough be mechanically desirable in any circumstances?

- Not all gated content will be outsourced to the party members.
- Gated content will be less extreme than it was in AoD where you could easily miss entire locations
- High CHA and speech skills to manage your party means less content you can access on your own
- If we do it right, bigger party will mean bigger problems, less freedom for your character
- XP split will be a strong factor, in most games a level or two behind don't mean much; in AoD it did and we aren't planning to change that
- It will be easier to lose party members in a weaker party (or stay away from that gated content)

Usually XP distribution isn't big enough, and having a group is always more powerful - not to mention a strong scaling often breaks the game by making solo characters hit the cap far too early.

The problem with XP distribution here is that unlike in other games you can actually lose companions on your way. Imagine you have a group of 4, sharing XP for quite a while and then you are losing 2 of them. Assuming a similar unforgiving system as in AoD wouldn't you run into serious troubles being left with 2 rather weaklings?

Then you go and look for replacements, being forced to take what you can, which will create bigger issues down the road. The skill levels won't be an issue (not all potential party members will be level 1 noobs, obviously), people you can't control will be.

 

[Irenaeus III]

All looks awesome, great, except this:

- Gated content will be less extreme than it was in AoD where you could easily miss entire locations

Sounds like a concession to casuals and whiners...

But overall 10/10

 

[Elhoim]

It's a different type of game, especially the setting. It's a ship, all areas are known in the beginning. That doesn't mean you would be able to just waltz in into all of them.

 

[Plane Escapee]

Right now (as in subject to change without notice) we're planning to go with 10 traits (values ranging from -5 to +5) strictly for the purpose of reacting to different situations and the PC's choices.

Religion (-5 means raging atheist, +5 means true believer)
Politics (-5 filthy liberal, +5 glorious conservative)
Loyalty (-5 treacherous scum, +5 loyal to a fault)
Volatile (-5 comatose, +5 always ready to fly off the handle)
Connving (-5 honest abe, +5 Miltiades)
Opportunist (-5 a man of principles, +5 what are principles?)
Idealism (-5 cynic, +5 starry-eyed idealist)
Greed (-5 above money, +5 can quote Gordon Gekko)
Altruism (-5 selfish bastard, +5 For the Greater Good!)
Agreeable (-5 doesn't play well with others, +5 gets along with Hitler)

The choice of traits reminds me of Expeditions: Conquistador. If the way Expeditions: Conquistador handled traits can be compared to an extremely small-scale version of what Colony Spaceship Cool Beans RPG is going to do, I'm a happy and very impatient Colony Spaceship Cool Beans RPG enthusiast.

 

[hivemind]

Do you plan to have an alternative to the Teron/Maadoran demos you had during AoD development ?

 

[Vault Dweller]

We're planning to release a demo (when we get that far) to show what we have and gather feedback, then release the game on Early Access when we have 50% of content.

 

[Goral]

As much as I loved Age of Decadence, and I really did, this game sounds so much better! (...)

Age of Decadence is so good that I find it hard to believe that CS will be at least as good. In fact I expect it to be much worse but we will see. AoD appealed to my taste perfectly and I haven't had that much fun since Fallout 4.

Spoiler

Four is struck but you can't see that

 

[Cadmus]

cool, finally something for me to play in the retirement home

 

[Whisper]

You can't turn a liar into an honest man, you can't turn someone like Miltiades

Will he be in new game in AoD world?

I buy 20 copies instantly when its released.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Sadly, no. The dungeon crawler is a combat game and Miltiades isn't much of a fighter. We're planning to release one final AoD update around summer and we *might* include more Miltiades-related shenanigans, including taking him to the temple.

 

[Tigranes]

The Obsidian influence system - which I enjoyed greatly and wish it would return - was extremely egocentric by design, and so it suited protagonists who were supposed to have an uncanny ability to bend others to their will (KOTOR2, NWN2). In Iron Tower game, others bend you. Hell, it wouldn't even really be appropriate for POE, where although the protagonist can read souls the thematic notes are less egocentric/melodramatic.

I think the key is to have realistic downsides for having many companions and for each specific companion. E.g. being seen in the company of Viconia up and down the Sword Coast should bar the party from help/cooperation by much of the nobility and the guards, even if later she leaves your party; maybe some options are only available to a solo player; maybe if a party member is kidnapped/blackmailed and asks you for help, it's not an occasion for "woo additional content & sidequest XP" but "holy shit do I really want to give up my important resources/opportunities to help" - Alpha Protocol had some super-simple versions of this where you sometimes couldn't save your associates.

 

[Irenaeus III]

Sadly, no. The dungeon crawler is a combat game and Miltiades isn't much of a fighter. We're planning to release one final AoD update around summer and we *might* include more Miltiades-related shenanigans, including taking him to the temple.

#LMAO

:1up:

 

[Whisper]

Sadly, no. The dungeon crawler is a combat game and Miltiades isn't much of a fighter. We're planning to release one final AoD update around summer and we *might* include more Miltiades-related shenanigans, including taking him to the temple.

Very sad, indeed.


Best NPC in crpgs (those i remember playing).

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks.

 

[Antigoon]

Imagine you have a group of 4, sharing XP for quite a while and then you are losing 2 of them. Assuming a similar unforgiving system as in AoD wouldn't you run into serious troubles being left with 2 rather weaklings?

GOTY

Not if you want to present it as something "normal" and not as a mistake you could/should have avoided in the first place...

Usually XP distribution isn't big enough, and having a group is always more powerful - not to mention a strong scaling often breaks the game by making solo characters hit the cap far too early.

The problem with XP distribution here is that unlike in other games you can actually lose companions on your way. Imagine you have a group of 4, sharing XP for quite a while and then you are losing 2 of them. Assuming a similar unforgiving system as in AoD wouldn't you run into serious troubles being left with 2 rather weaklings?

Then you go and look for replacements, being forced to take what you can, which will create bigger issues down the road. The skill levels won't be an issue (not all potential party members will be level 1 noobs, obviously), people you can't control will be.

...but I guess that won't be an issue. Sounds great!

 

[Esquilax]

Can we get more Miltiades?

Please say Yes.

Maybe in next game in AoD world you are making. He can get to prison, right?

I hope a variation of Miltiades exists in every subsequent Iron Tower Studio game, each with the "Milt" prefix in their name. I can't wait until I meet Milton the friendly merchant in the first hub of the colony ship game, who offers a great deal on contraband for very few credits in that dimly lit deck up ahead.

 

[Tigranes]

I would give a testicle to play The Nameless Milt, an amnesiac who discovers that he was Miltiades in his past life and must now escape the adventurers, gang bosses, high merchants and world leaders on his arse. And he's going to do it the only way he knows how...

 

[Goral]

I would give a testicle to play The Nameless Milt, an amnesiac who discovers that he was Miltiades in his past life and must now escape the adventurers, gang bosses, high merchants and world leaders on his arse. And he's going to do it the only way he knows how...

We can arrange that. Come to my clinic around the corner.

Spoiler

 

[Cyberarmy]

we *might* include more Miltiades-related shenanigans, including taking him to the temple.

Can we turn him into a "god" ? God of Lies.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Sadly, no. The dungeon crawler is a combat game and Miltiades isn't much of a fighter. We're planning to release one final AoD update around summer and we *might* include more Miltiades-related shenanigans, including taking him to the temple.

#LMAO

:1up:

This game will be completed with the speed of a

Spoiler

colony ship

Spoiler

10 years

Spoiler

minimum

 

[Bonzai]

Is there a possibility for charisma to be useful in combat? I think the problem with pretty much all rpgs is that cha is pretty useless in comat in such games whether it can be actually quite useful if done right. Charisma usually measures one's leadership and its often said that paladins (high cha dudes) are strong leaders, but in combat their cha doeas absolutely nothing in that regard. A strong charismatic leader encourages his people to fight and die for him and he himself should be a strong willed person. Imagine a situation where a party member takes a huge blow and panics, a high charisma leader can use his influence to bring him back into the fray. I think its quite possible to make charisma something like a morale stat. High cha characters have high morale while low cha grunts have low morale. Like orcs for example. They dump charisma to pump their physical attributes but will most likely turn on each other or simply run away in a dire situation. On the other hand a high charisma hobbit will continue his journey all the way to mount Doom. Imagine if cha worked that way in, let's say Icewind Dale. So when you've created a low cha party and they've got hit by a nasty fireball and suddenly you see half your party panicking and running away and turning on each other. I think its a cool idea.

 

[Forest Dweller]

I haven't played the Miltiades questline, but is there an option to betray him at the very end?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Is there a possibility for charisma to be useful in combat? I think the problem with pretty much all rpgs is that cha is pretty useless in comat in such games whether it can be actually quite useful if done right. Charisma usually measures one's leadership and its often said that paladins (high cha dudes) are strong leaders, but in combat their cha doeas absolutely nothing in that regard. A strong charismatic leader encourages his people to fight and die for him and he himself should be a strong willed person. Imagine a situation where a party member takes a huge blow and panics, a high charisma leader can use his influence to bring him back into the fray. I think its quite possible to make charisma something like a morale stat. High cha characters have high morale while low cha grunts have low morale. Like orcs for example. They dump charisma to pump their physical attributes but will most likely turn on each other or simply run away in a dire situation. On the other hand a high charisma hobbit will continue his journey all the way to mount Doom. Imagine if cha worked that way in, let's say Icewind Dale. So when you've created a low cha party and they've got hit by a nasty fireball and suddenly you see half your party panicking and running away and turning on each other. I think its a cool idea.

The only way to make Charisma useful in combat is to remove the player's control (i.e. the player controls a single character, the AI controls the party members) and replace it with issuing orders. The higher your Charisma, the higher the chance that the party member will do what you tell him.

As for panicking and turning on each other, it might work but it requires a whole layer of mechanics supporting it in a natural way and we don't want to try to do too many new things. When it comes to new mechanics, our design goals are:

- the above mentioned party system which requires the entire game to be designed around it
- a new and improved dialogue system
- heavy use of gadgets in combat
- TB stealth

That's already a lot and we don't have the manpower to handle more design 'challenges'.