Preview Consequences and epic battles in Dragon Age

[doctor_kaz]

I haven't gotten into Mass Effect's system very much. Too often what my character says feels substantively different from the one or two words on the wheel, and it sometimes sounds kinda asshole-ish and whiny.

 

[Mister Arkham]

I haven't gotten into Mass Effect's system very much. Too often what my character says feels substantively different from the one or two words on the wheel, and it sometimes sounds kinda asshole-ish and whiny.

Exactly. I always felt that dialogue in ME, while often well written, was a craps-shoot. Glad to hear that Bioware is taking a step back and refining a formula that worked.

 

[Ogg]

To me what's worse with ME dialog system is that you were impelled to choose one of the two available roles (Paragon or Renegade) and keep it till the end. Only two roles? Is that roleplay? So, hell yes, I'm glad that Dragon Age gets back to dialog trees.

 

[Dgaider]

Are there different difficulty levels like in BG?

That's the plan, though exactly what each difficulty level will do is still to be settled.

When a character dies, does he wake up as soon as the battle is over? Is there incentive to keep your characters alive?

It's not quite KotOR where, as soon as the battle was done, any party members that went down during the fight spring up no harm, no foul.

Party members that go down during combat in DA acquire one of various "injured" states that debilitate your character to a degree determined by the difficulty level. The state is stackable and persistent until the injury is properly treated.

So not permanent death, no, and I know that for some that will never cut it. Fair enough. Still, the idea is that it's a consequence for losing a party member that isn't so harsh it forces a reload. The idea will be, as well, that the combat will be balanced such that losing a party member during a fight is a tough blow as it is -- but it's harder to say how that will pan out in the long run.

 

[Volourn]

"To me what's worse with ME dialog system is that you were impelled to choose one of the two available roles (Paragon or Renegade) and keep it till the end."

Simply not true.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Party members that go down during combat in DA acquire one of various "injured" states that debilitate your character to a degree determined by the difficulty level. The state is stackable and persistent until the injury is properly treated.

This sounds good, Betrayal at Krondor had the same thing and it worked well there.

 

[aries202]

/snip

Party members that go down during combat in DA acquire one of various "injured" states that debilitate your character to a degree determined by the difficulty level. The state is stackable and persistent until the injury is properly treated.

So not permanent death, no, and I know that for some that will never cut it. Fair enough. Still, the idea is that it's a consequence for losing a party member that isn't so harsh it forces a reload. The idea will be, as well, that the combat will be balanced such that losing a party member during a fight is a tough blow as it is -- but it's harder to say how that will pan out in the long run.

Sorry for the snip everyone, but I felt the quote would be too long...

I like the idea of party members getting a serious consequence to getting injured in the game? Does this mean that party members will be unable to move, and that we have to carry them with us if they have been permanently knocked unconscious? To clarify a bit:
Your party members could be hit varius times. Each time it stacks a little more untill one of your characters are permanently injured say in the head? or has lost so much blood so that he or she just drops unsciously. This is then consistent untill medical attention can be given.

Or does this just mean that everyone wakes up after a battle, and then someone has maybe lost an arm or a hand, or has a deep wound in the leg that is persistent untill treated medically...

 

[Warden]

The most important thing is: how difficult will it be to get rid of the bad effects of "dying" in combat.
Knowing biowhore.. it will be click two times and you're like new.

 

[Ogg]

Party members that go down during combat in DA acquire one of various "injured" states that debilitate your character to a degree determined by the difficulty level. The state is stackable and persistent until the injury is properly treated.

Good news to me. Permanent death may be the real hardcore way to play RPG. But injured states are a must have for realistic and challenging combat systems. I just hope it won't be too easy to get rid of these injuries, like, you know, take a nap and that's it, your crippled leg is fixed.

"To me what's worse with ME dialog system is that you were impelled to choose one of the two available roles (Paragon or Renegade) and keep it till the end."

Simply not true.

Keeping one of the two roles gives you stats enhancement and is the best way to get the intimidate and charm skills to their max. You aren't really compelled to do so but there are some huge incentives, yeah.

 

[Dgaider]

Or does this just mean that everyone wakes up after a battle, and then someone has maybe lost an arm or a hand, or has a deep wound in the leg that is persistent untill treated medically...

Right. They're out for the rest of the battle, and once it's done it's assumed you deal with their immediate wounds and they get up. They then have a random injury -- like a wounded leg, yes -- that affects appropriate stats accordingly until it's treated.

 

[pkt-zer0]

So not permanent death, no, and I know that for some that will never cut it. Fair enough.

How about adding an ironman mode? Or would that be unfeasible for plot-related reasons?

 

[Texas Red]

Dgaider, will DA challenge the players with the combat? I think I speak for everyone when saying that we'd like to be forced to use tactics, proper spell selection etc.

All in all I'm actually looking forward to this game.

 

[Dgaider]

How about adding an ironman mode? Or would that be unfeasible for plot-related reasons?

It only couldn't apply to the one character that needs to stick around for the plot -- but otherwise? Maybe a mode where one of the random injuries was "death"? Might make going down in combat a bit of a Russian Roulette deal as opposed to a guaranteed end.

But I don't know. It's possible... at this point it's just a matter of additional work.

 

[Dgaider]

Dgaider, will DA challenge the players with the combat? I think I speak for everyone when saying that we'd like to be forced to use tactics, proper spell selection etc.

All in all I'm actually looking forward to this game.

Well, I think if you check out the videos that are coming out, you'll see that we're trying to add a lot of tactical options in the combat. We also want things for the melee combatants to do other than just click-attack.

As for the overall challenge, that depends on the balancing. I'd like to say that, yes, we're going to lean towards providing more of a challenge in combat -- but it's a bit early to tell just yet. There are a lot of things that can change at this point.

Would it be meaningful if I said that the man behind the balancing job is German? He's pretty merciless.

 

[sabishii]

I posted this in the other thread:

The only thing that worried me in the preview is the "shield stun then assault" thing. It sure sounds good but hopefully won't turn out too twitchy, which would be annoying when controlling multiple characters. If there is a queue-up system then it would be fine, for example.

I really liked the magic & the environment example. If this is incorporated into a large number of instances and not just the scripted few, it could perhaps be one of the better magic systems in gaming because it is outside of the typical box where magic is only used for damage, healing, and status effects.

It only couldn't apply to the one character that needs to stick around for the plot -- but otherwise? Maybe a mode where one of the random injuries was "death"? Might make going down in combat a bit of a Russian Roulette deal as opposed to a guaranteed end.

But I don't know. It's possible... at this point it's just a matter of additional work.

I would vote for it. NPC death can add a lot of "flavor" to the player's story. Perhaps I really liked the NPC and then there's a sense of loss. And then I have to recruit a new party member, who might be someone I already met but disliked, but now have to begrudging learn to live with.

 

[Volourn]

These injuries - depending hopw series they cna be and hard they are to cure - could simply lead to reloading anyways. If a player is deep inside a dungeon and half the party is everely injured, they might liekly just reload the game from pre injury, anyways...

 

[Ogg]

Would it be meaningful if I said that the man behind the balancing job is German? He's pretty merciless.

German? Like in Gothic 3 was developped by German developper Piranha Bytes? Then, no.

Anyway, Mr Gaider, I love you for answering our questions. Could you tell us more about the way to get rid of the injuries? Will it be healed by some sort of cleric/doctor in towns or on the combat field (the former being prefered)? Will all kind of injuries be treated the same way? Will some injuries be impossible to treat? As Voly says, what makes the player accept his state and not reload?

 

[Dgaider]

Could you tell us more about the way to get rid of the injuries?

Not at this point. It's still in flux.

Will some injuries be impossible to treat?

I don't think so, no.

As Voly says, what makes the player accept his state and not reload?

There are some people who will reload no matter what when handed some kind of drawback. I suspect more people will find an injury "acceptable" and move on, depending on the amount of time/effort required to treat the injury... but the point isn't to make people not reload, the point is to provide a consequence for a party member going down in combat that isn't so harsh that the player loses a party member (and a great deal of content with them) but not so soft that the player is sacrificing his party members in kamikaze fashion without effect.

 

[Ogg]

There are some people who will reload no matter what when handed some kind of drawback. I suspect more people will find an injury "acceptable" and move on, depending on the amount of time/effort required to treat the injury... but the point isn't to make people not reload, the point is to provide a consequence for a party member going down in combat that isn't so harsh that the player loses a party member (and a great deal of content with them) but not so soft that the player is sacrificing his party members in kamikaze fashion without effect.

You must know that most of us here are more of the kind who won't reload, but I know we're not the only target audience. So, I understand this point is hard to balance when creating a game. Offering some good gameplay around the treat/injury system is sure a good incentive for not reloading.

 

[Jaesun]

There are some people who will reload no matter what when handed some kind of drawback. I suspect more people will find an injury "acceptable" and move on, depending on the amount of time/effort required to treat the injury... but the point isn't to make people not reload, the point is to provide a consequence for a party member going down in combat that isn't so harsh that the player loses a party member (and a great deal of content with them) but not so soft that the player is sacrificing his party members in kamikaze fashion without effect.

I like this dynamic. Sounds good.

 

[Kingston]

Not at this point. It's still in flux.

I recall that earlier there was a design in which no magical instant-heal items existed, no health pots or scrolls to quickly get rid of afflictions. Instead you'd need to bandange up and survive until you got back to town. I could be remembering wrong. It sounded like a good system to me, I'd be sad to see pots make a return.

Can you tell us if there will be any healing skills? E.g. In Fallout someone with a bad Doctor/Medic skill could make things potentially worse for a character, which is something I really liked.

And yea, I'm kinda sorry there is no perma-death for characters. That was always an insta-reload in DnD games, though, but added menace to enemies. In Ironman it makes the game a whole lot more fun.

I hope someone makes an rpg where if the main character dies his party members drag him off to be resurrected. You die, wake up a week later at a church, with one of your party members dead, one missing an arm and lots of conflicting stories on what happened. That'd be great. /offtopic.

 

[Grog]

How about adding an ironman mode? Or would that be unfeasible for plot-related reasons?

It only couldn't apply to the one character that needs to stick around for the plot -- but otherwise? Maybe a mode where one of the random injuries was "death"? Might make going down in combat a bit of a Russian Roulette deal as opposed to a guaranteed end.

But I don't know. It's possible... at this point it's just a matter of additional work.

I don't think he's talking about adding death as a possible outcome. I think by ironman he's talking about something like TOEE's ironman, an optional difficulty setting where you can only save/load when starting or quitting the game. That way if you pick up an injury you can't reload your way around it.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

That's what I too was thinking of.

I wouldn't touch an option like that, but objectively there's absolutely no drawback to including such a thing other than whatever work you need to put in to code it.

 

[pkt-zer0]

I don't think he's talking about adding death as a possible outcome.

I actually was, sorry for the slightly confusing wording. Adding a mode where you can't reload would take even less effort to add, considering that you could just simply choose to not reload when you die. But sure, adding that as an option wouldn't hurt, either. As long as the basic combat is good enough, various options to possibly make it more interesting/challenging are always nice.

 

[Volourn]

"considering that you could just simply choose to not reload when you die."

Why include it at all? It's unneeded in TOEE, and other games to. If someone wants Ironman Mode just do it. L0L