Croshaw talks dialogue design

[Grunker]

The first page seems to pretty much sum up the points about LARPing in dialogue recently discussed here. Second part is kind of lame, though.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... ue-Menus.2

Thoughts?

 

[JarlFrank]

So you've got the two characters who are having the conversation on screen, and down at the bottom of the screen you've got two circles, one for each analog stick. Each circle has its perimeter divided between various options, and you select the options by pushing towards the appropriate section with the appropriate stick.

He lost me there because I don't know anything about console controllers and it's sounds very minigame-y and consoleish anyways.

Meh.

 

[Grunker]

So you've got the two characters who are having the conversation on screen, and down at the bottom of the screen you've got two circles, one for each analog stick. Each circle has its perimeter divided between various options, and you select the options by pushing towards the appropriate section with the appropriate stick.

He lost me there because I don't know anything about console controllers and it's sounds very minigame-y and consoleish anyways.

Meh.

Yep. As often with good critics, his own ideas suck badly.

 

[janjetina]

The dumbfuck is trying to fix the system that isn't broken in principle (implementation of the system hinges on the quality of writing, though) by replacing reading actual sentences with a moronic minigame. It reminds me of Ass Protocol revolutionary dialogue wheel.

 

[GarfunkeL]

I like the idea that the player does not have to remain standing in front of the NPC, rather you can have the conversation going on while your character does something else too. Only an interface-problem AND you could make some npc's get angry with you "not paying attention".

 

[Brother None]

Why the fuck would anyone be interested in Croshaw's opinion on dialogue design?

 

[Grunker]

Why the fuck would anyone be interested in Croshaw's opinion on dialogue design?

Because it's a fresh look. Croshaw is, in this matter, characterized by two things: His lack of knowledge on RPG, and his status as one of the only mainstream reviewers who bash the big guys. The first is fresh because it's not often you hear such reviewers commenting on RPG-mechanics (i.e. it gives you an outside view), the second is pretty obvious in and of itself.

 

[Brother None]

The first is fresh because it's not often you hear such reviewers commenting on RPG-mechanics (i.e. it gives you an outside view).

Rrrrrong. Mr Zero P is marked not by his lack of knowledge of RPGs, but by his sheer hatred of them. He does not like RPGs. He likes it when RPGs are less like RPGs and more like action games/shooters. Asking him for advice on RPG mechanics is like asking Kanye West how to improve Shostakovich's first symphony.

 

[Gragt]

As often with good critics, his own ideas suck badly.

Good critic? Where did you see one?

 

[<subject name here>]

Rrrrrong. Mr Zero P is marked not by his lack of knowledge of RPGs, but by his sheer hatred of them. He does not like RPGs. He likes it when RPGs are less like RPGs and more like action games/shooters. Asking him for advice on RPG mechanics is like asking Kanye West how to improve Shostakovich's first symphony.

No, he hates JRPGs. With a passion. He's never expressed any hatred towards western RPGs. Though he has said he rarely plays them...

 

[Grunker]

^Take a look at The Witcher review and tell me he's not biased. He rants on the game because, get this, it has too many features.

Good critic? Where did you see one?

Good point.

The first is fresh because it's not often you hear such reviewers commenting on RPG-mechanics (i.e. it gives you an outside view).

Rrrrrong. Mr Zero P is marked not by his lack of knowledge of RPGs, but by his sheer hatred of them. He does not like RPGs. He likes it when RPGs are less like RPGs and more like action games/shooters. Asking him for advice on RPG mechanics is like asking Kanye West how to improve Shostakovich's first symphony.

You're right, but that doesn't negate the "outsider"-point.

 

[dragonfk]

The first is fresh because it's not often you hear such reviewers commenting on RPG-mechanics (i.e. it gives you an outside view).

Rrrrrong. Mr Zero P is marked not by his lack of knowledge of RPGs, but by his sheer hatred of them. He does not like RPGs. He likes it when RPGs are less like RPGs and more like action games/shooters. Asking him for advice on RPG mechanics is like asking Kanye West how to improve Shostakovich's first symphony.

But, but...but he liked Dragon Age!

 

[GarfunkeL]

He also liked F3.

Case closed.

 

[Grunker]

The first is fresh because it's not often you hear such reviewers commenting on RPG-mechanics (i.e. it gives you an outside view).

Rrrrrong. Mr Zero P is marked not by his lack of knowledge of RPGs, but by his sheer hatred of them. He does not like RPGs. He likes it when RPGs are less like RPGs and more like action games/shooters. Asking him for advice on RPG mechanics is like asking Kanye West how to improve Shostakovich's first symphony.

But, but...but he liked Dragon Age!

And Mass Effect.

herp derp

 

[1eyedking]

He liked them, he never said they were TEH GOOD.

In fact, he said everything else was shit but those games were just a bit less.

 

[<subject name here>]

^Take a look at The Witcher review and tell me he's not biased. He rants on the game because, get this, it has too many features.

He also complained about Oblivion being too complicated, and having to check the manual to figure out how to drop an item.

OK, he hates RPGs, but only because he's too much of a noob to fully understand them. And he still hates jRPGs more.

 

[dragonfk]

If I recall correctly in his DA:O review he said it's shit but he can't unglue himself from the monitor. Or something in that manner.

 

[<subject name here>]

But, but...but he liked Dragon Age!

And Mass Effect.

herp derp

And Fallout 3.

r00fles!

 

[dragonfk]

^Take a look at The Witcher review and tell me he's not biased. He rants on the game because, get this, it has too many features.

He also complained about Oblivion being too complicated, and having to check the manual to figure out how to drop an item.

OK, he hates RPGs, but only because he's too much of a noob to fully understand them. And he still hates jRPGs more.

So we ought to listen to a guy who's too stupid to understand what a cRPG is or should be? Come on, he's the harbringer of further decline of the genre...

 

[Grunker]

Dragonfk is essentially right, but I also think that makes it interesting to hear what he has to say on the core mechanics of RPG. Kind of an "Know your enemy"-thing.

 

[JarlFrank]

His idea of dialogue is extremely gimmicky and minigamey, it might be okay for a shooter where dialogue is a nice little side-diversion, a hack and slash or dungeon crawler, but a typical RPG where dialogue takes up at least 40% and up to 70% of your game time? No, definitely not. The silly persuasion wheel in Oblivion was getting fucking tedious after the 10th time or so already, and I doubt other kinds of minigames would be any less tedious if you had to do them throughout the whole fucking game, even if they're well-designed.

 

[<subject name here>]

So we ought to listen to a guy who's too stupid to understand what a cRPG is or should be? Come on, he's the harbringer of further decline of the genre...

Knowing what the hell you're talking about is so last decade, yo. Ignorance is the FUTURE!

 

[dragonfk]

So we ought to listen to a guy who's too stupid to understand what a cRPG is or should be? Come on, he's the harbringer of further decline of the genre...

Knowing what the hell you're talking about is so last decade, yo. Ignorance is the FUTURE!

Care to elaborate on my ignorance?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Good critic? Where did you see one?

Good point.

I would, however, argue that he is an entertaining critic.

 

[dragonfk]

Less than our majestic horse I dare say.