Grunker
RPG Codex Ghost
Both, I reckon.
commie said:I dunno, I love GoldBox warts and all, not much needed to really be tweaked with 2e. It's all about utilising the ruleset in the best way, with encounters that play to the strengths of the ruleset rather than adding ever more junk that no-one implements properly(if at all) anyway.
To take a modern non AD&D example, it's a bit like the combat options in DA:O; they are actually pretty good, varied, give the potential of tactical choice YET for the most part it doesn't matter as combat encounters are so shit that everything degenerates into a 'click the talents in order' combat, that get worse the more overlapping and overpowered talents you get.
For a computer game the 2e rules with a few tweaks would have sufficed as long as the combat encounters were designed to complement the rules.
Grunker said:@Jaesun and Commie: You actually want to go back to LESS character customization? You actually like RPG systems where leveling up is pressing a button and rolling for hit points, such as AD&D? Why, why, why, why would you ever want to go back to a system with so much automization and so little customization?
Grunker said:@Jaesun and Commie: You actually want to go back to LESS character customization? You actually like RPG systems where leveling up is pressing a button and rolling for hit points, such as AD&D? Why, why, why, why would you ever want to go back to a system with so much automization and so little customization?
commie said:Take TOEE. Fantastic combat system, but almost no game to go with it.
I'd rather have a low level (max 8) epic adventure in the POR mold with a challenge in most encounters because of the need to use limited resources, spells, abilities, stats in the best possible way, than have a ton of spells and talents on hand to sweep past armies of fodder buffed only to provide an artificial challenge.
Grunker said:@Commie: Bullshit. KotC does so perfectly fine and it's an indie-game wihout a budget. ToEE's lack of game was a problem of production, not principle.
Mrowak said:Yes, but that stems not from flaws of the system, but game designer's inability to implement it correctly. As crazy as it sounds the closest we were to having correct D&D spell-system was BG2, where you had tons of useful spells, and interesting, varied encounters that forced you to experiment with them. In the course of whole game you had to do your utmost to survive many encounters, where you didn't fight derp-spawn mobs, but interesting enemies. Stupid Vampires and Wolfweres required from you more tactical thinking than 80% of RPGs these days (including TW2 ).
1976 said:This is the first report of the D&D campaign along the Ryth, published as a public service by the Yggrdasill papermill, and compiled by John Van De Graaf from the recent archives of Rythlondar. Please report any omissions or inaccuracies to your friendly referee so that he can feed you to a ravenous purple worm, thereby cleansing his records.
...
Another party of 9 entered the northern end of the Weir and went down to the third level. In this group were theurgist Fazzlefart, ranger-guide Athelfrar, seer Kodiak, dwarf warrioress Ervandra, and others. They met and killed a hydra and some zombies, but almost met their doom in a room filled with gargoyles. Athelfrar found a manual of pilfering, and Fazzle charmed a superhero with a neutral sword of wishes. A shifting block confused their travels when they were chased by a fire-breathing hydra. Treasure was 2310 GP, four died.
You're full of shit. Just because KotC did combat encounters well doesn't negate the fact that most of the time the complexity of rules does not translate into a complex game. My TOEE analogy stands. The reasoning as to why the devs didn't implement it correctly is redundant. The effect is that in Vanilla TOEE, the combat system was woefully underutilised as has been the AD&D 3e system with only a few pausable RTS games coming out of it.
Just because KotC did combat encounters well doesn't negate the fact that most of the time the complexity of rules does not translate into a complex game
What is also redundant is the 'hurr, durr there's no RPG's anymore so your point is invalid' bit you're peddling. There have been RPG's using 'superior' rulesets to 2e for 20 years, yet for the most part, the implementation has been lacking(this holds true in the golden era as it does now). It's not lack of RPG's that makes the rule implementations poor, but the inability of devs to implement them correctly.
play those uberslow respawning and scaled encounters of Wiz 8
the devs didn't know how to implement the rules to make memorable combat encounters which is the problem here
"Better systems and better system implementation= better RPG's" I won't argue with as if you could comprehend at a 2nd grader level, you'd see that I wrote EXACTLY THAT! Not my fault that you and Mrowak cannot into comprehension. My point was that it's the IMPLEMENTATION of more complex rules that has almost always been a problem in RPG's and that it would make more sense for developers to learn to implement simple rules well rather than dumping ever more useless choice and options into a game that essentially make no difference to the game.
J1M said:3.5 certainly has more multiclassing freedom and power creep than 4E, but I haven't seen many legitimate criticisms against 4E that were not merely hearsay and plainly false.
Btw, wishing you could still play a cleric and be better than the fighter and wizard at their jobs too is not a legitimate concern.
Dire Roach said:The 5th edition will eschew the concept of core books and use instead a system of CCG-like booster packs which contain accessories such as elf ears, foam weapons, and magic cloaks. It will revolutionize the RPG industry.