In Progress Dawn of War tournament - SEASON 2 NOW OVER

[RK47]

I woke up at 6 for nothing

 

[Reject_666_6]

The day of defeat is here, BUT FOR WHOM?!!?

Game 1 - https://files.catbox.moe/bilhyp.rec
Game 2 - https://files.catbox.moe/4sx2tk.rec
Game 3 - https://files.catbox.moe/8gd23b.rec

Spoiler

Morale break! I lost 0-2 as expected. GG to my swedish adversary, may his furniture hold strong.

 

[underground nymph]

Shit, this tournament made me want to revisit Dark crusade — a beloved game back then. Is DoW2 nearly as enjoyable in multiplayer?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Is DoW2 nearly as enjoyable in multiplayer?

Opiniouns vary. Personally, I think DoW2 could have been great, but it has a few terrible, terrible design decisions that make playing it more frustrating in the long run than it should be. Half that game is based on using awesome buttons that act as board wipes, against which you have only a split second to react. So if you don't keep tabs 24/7 on all your units, everywhere, you're suddenly gonna find half your army obliterated by a stray grenade, and that shit just ain't fun.

The worst thing is that as the game went on, the awesome buttons also became more aggravating. The IG faction they added in Retribution for example was downright retarded for a number of reasons, including but not limited to artillery firing from half the map away and melting armies with a single salvo, or a lord commissar upgrade that made the entire guardsman army fucking immortal. It was also pretty damn insulting how they overnerfed the tyranids and then left them to rot - hey let's make an army full of squishy units that also have a domino death explosion effect in a game full of board wipes, i'm sure this is going to be reasonable.

A damn shame really because to a large degree DoW2 was actually very fun in multi. The tactical gameplay with smaller squads had some interesting rules and dynamics that were very exciting when played out to their fullest, and you could do some very cool and creative plays with certain units and their abilities to outplay the opponent. But then you got blasted by a board wipe that invalidated everything you did up to that moment and started asking yourself what exactly was the point in playing this game.

 

[RK47]

Spoiler

Game 1
I don't think there was any profit in engaging that early for the Orks. Especially in such a small map. One mistake and you probably lose the map and the initiative. Frazier's Demise is such a high risk map when it comes to a mid map fight due to the negative cover. Movement is slow when disengaging and you take extra damage.

Jaedar's Chaos is not playing with its fullest potential yet he finished this game in just 8 mins. What can I say? The Chaos momentum is too strong for the broken Orks.

Game 2
Tau left the Sister of Battle alone far too long. The opening 3 minutes is when the Sisters are at their most vulnerable. Without a real army and with just a single Canoness to protect its base, it's the perfect opportunity to harass from two directions. That is doable in a map like Fata Morga with the mobility of the stealth suits. As powerful as Canoness is at dispatching light infantry, she cannot be at two places at the same time.

Some may question why the Sisters of Battle took such a risk at deploying a much smaller army. This is due to the cost of building a Convent (250), Plasma Generator (135), and Pristine Sanctuary (175/50) forcing them to choose between deploying their early game army vs getting listening points up.

Tau went to T2 and was not ready for the flaming march. Not enough army build up.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Nahel hello friend explain yourselves before the cleansing begins

 

[Nahel]

Hello friend was kind of badly sick those days. So it would basically be default victory for me. Normally he should be in a decent enough state to play today

 

[RK47]

 

[hello friend]

Fuck you Nahel, we're gonna play. Fever broke overnight, just gimme a day to recover.

 

[hello friend]

Game 2 is lost to time, sorry about that. Still not 100%. I spent about two minutes staring dumbly at the folders in soulstorm directory until I remembered/realised the replays were obviously in Playback folder.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dcoc64q27cn869k/2P_FATA_MORGANA.2019-09-05.20-02-41.rec?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwos8620x3re9o6/2P_BATTLE_MARSHES.2019-09-05.20-42-29.rec?dl=0

Gratz Nahel

 

[Nahel]

Game 2 is lost to time, sorry about that. Still not 100%. I spent about two minutes staring dumbly at the folders in soulstorm directory until I remembered/realised the replays were obviously in Playback folder.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dcoc64q27cn869k/2P_FATA_MORGANA.2019-09-05.20-02-41.rec?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwos8620x3re9o6/2P_BATTLE_MARSHES.2019-09-05.20-42-29.rec?dl=0

Gratz Nahel

GG hello friend. Pity if you were still a little sick -_-

Game 2 was DE versus SM. Infrantry battle on quest glory. Lot of Wych but SM T2 is better imo

 

[Jaedar]

Game 2 is lost to time, sorry about that. Still not 100%. I spent about two minutes staring dumbly at the folders in soulstorm directory until I remembered/realised the replays were obviously in Playback folder.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dcoc64q27cn869k/2P_FATA_MORGANA.2019-09-05.20-02-41.rec?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwos8620x3re9o6/2P_BATTLE_MARSHES.2019-09-05.20-42-29.rec?dl=0

Gratz Nahel

GG hello friend. Pity if you were still a little sick -_-

Game 2 was DE versus SM. Infrantry battle on quest glory. Lot of Wych but SM T2 is better imo

?!
Wyches eat all the infantry SM have in T2 for breakfast. SM's biggest advantage in T2 is triple commander and grey knights, and wyches eat all that for breakfast.

 

[Nahel]

?!
Wyches eat all the infantry SM have in T2 for breakfast. SM's biggest advantage in T2 is triple commander and grey knights, and wyches eat all that for breakfast.

Wych are also quite expensive. And I am not such a fan of grey knights versus DE. Sm with heavy weapons should come before wyches and can be really hard to stop for DE. And Boreale and Chapelain are quite useful to tank. Landspeeder are cheap and can pack a lot. Of course at same number wych will win. But it should not happen

 

[hello friend]

Wyches are amazing. Sadly, they weren't amazing enough to turn the tide.

 

[RK47]

Spoiler

And so the long awaited game.
Was it worth it?

Eh.
Game 1
Pretty typical match up superiority here as SB trounces IG hard.
IG made a critical mistake of delaying tier 2 with Tactica Control built.
I didn't see any grenade launchers on the guardsmen at all, so what was the point of that?
Hellhounds tried to salvage the situation but two squad of celestians are more than enough to deal with it.
1 - 0 Hello Fren

Game 2 replay was lost. 1 - 1 as SM beats DE

Game 3 meta-wise, SM has the advantage vs SB, therefore Hello Fren stuck to his Dark Eldar. He went for double Hellion opener in Battle Marshes but could not occupy the enemy attention. Nahel mass tacs simply ignored the annoyance and went into DE base. DE really lost his focus and did not go for a proper build up. The 3 Jet bikes tried to fight off 3 squads of marines with Force Commander and were promptly destroyed. Afterwards Reaver jet bikes came out one at a time from the Dark Foundry as the Mass Tacs simply focus fired them to death.

When DE is in this situation, they should take advantage of their build-warp to start a new hidden production center and regroup. Because when outnumbered, the Dark Eldar army melts quickly.

 

[Latro]

so IG are low tier right

 

[RK47]

Well, each faction has different moments of strengths and weaknesses.
IG just do badly against SB match up more than others. Much like SB suffers vs SM.

 

[desocupado]

so IG are low tier right

IG T1 is poor (although your buildings allow you to turtle somewhat). T1.5 is a lot better
T2 is very good
T3 and T4 are among the best in the game.

I think IG is actually a very strong race, middle to top tier

 

[RK47]

Coming Soon...

 

[Darth Roxor]

In that case we can finally proceed to the next stage

First the final standings for playoffs.

Division LOSERS:

Jaedar - 5
Reject - 4
Nahel - 3
Janior - 2
Hello Friend - 1
Stormcrowfleet - 0​

Division COOL PEOPLE:

Darth Roxor - 5
Desocupado - 4
JRIz - 3
Brotherman Bill - 2
Popiel - 1
Snorkack - 0​

(such perfect order and balance in scores)

Brackets and such:

Which brings us to the semi-finals.

Imperial thought of the day: An unprotected soul can no more cross the storms of the warp than a heretic can bear the gaze of the Inquisition.

Jaedar vs Deso
Roxor vs Reject

These matches are to be played by who cares when.

 

[RK47]

 

[Nahel]

IG T1 is poor (although your buildings allow you to turtle somewhat). T1.5 is a lot better
T2 is very good
T3 and T4 are among the best in the game.

I think IG is actually a very strong race, middle to top tier

I disagree a little on that. IG is great the first 3 minutes. Command squad can gank rape any other heroes and the guards are not that bad yet. The rest of t1 they are horrible unless you put commissar which will delay you. T1.5 is ok but dangerous. Good versus SM but can delay you too much for t2
But T2 Ig really good? Nah its just average at best. I mean compare it with chaos who gets predator and khorne melee guys. Or the squishy vehicles compared to dreadnaught. And the infantry is ok but can't compare to wyches or nobs or other good units.
No complaints on t3 and t4 which are actually awesome.

But imo IG relies a little too much on maps. Depending on the map it can be really strong against harassment and rush which really screws the races which relies on it. But on other maps, you will struggle a lot.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Command squad can gank rape any other heroes

Incorrect. In many cases it's a coin toss who wins, it literally hinges fully on random factors like which member of the squad is targeted, how often knockdowns are triggered, etc. For example, against chaos lord the command squad loses in all cases IIRC. Against boreale it's a 50/50.

the guards are not that bad yet.

correct

they are fucking terrible

But T2 Ig really good?

Yes.

I mean compare it with chaos who gets predator and khorne melee guys. Or the squishy vehicles compared to dreadnaught. And the infantry is ok but can't compare to wyches or nobs or other good units.

A predator effectively costs as much as two IG vehicles (because you need vehicle cap research to field it). Zerks get torn apart by ranged blobs. Dreads are slow as slugs.

Meanwhile your "ok infantry" can average 65 dps per grenade launcher already in T2 (and they have 5 of those grenade launchers a squad), takes a pitiful 20 req to reinforce and is immune to morale damage (commie). A properly developed ranged blob of guardsmen (3 squads with full grenade launchers) is insanely difficult to dislodge in T2, especially when you also factor in the support:

- Heavy weapons teams, which may be severely dependent on map pick, but which have an effective damage reduction of 90% if deployed in cover, and which shred infantry and vehicles alike from long range.
- Basilisks, which might just as well be the most effective artillery unit in the game.
- Sentinels, which melt vehicles to slag, are fast, manoeuvrable, can move in fleets, and decap.
- Hellhounds, which can serve almost every role other than anti-vehicle.
- Priests either for additional melee shielding or boosting squads.
- A command squad with 3 psykers for that juicy triple split soul, triple lightning arc, triple vehicle disable.

I see your pred and dread and I cast curse of the machine spirit then melt it with sentinels. I see your zerks and sorry I don't actually see them because they can't even get close. I see your wyches and I burn them alive with hellhounds.

T2 is when the IG snowball starts rolling. If you don't beat them into the ground in T1, you're dead.

 

[Nahel]

A predator effectively costs as much as two IG vehicles (because you need vehicle cap research to field it). Zerks get torn apart by ranged blobs. Dreads are slow as slugs.

Meanwhile your "ok infantry" can average 65 dps per grenade launcher already in T2 (and they have 5 of those grenade launchers a squad), takes a pitiful 20 req to reinforce and is immune to morale damage (commie). A properly developed ranged blob of guardsmen (3 squads with full grenade launchers) is insanely difficult to dislodge in T2, especially when you also factor in the support:

- Heavy weapons teams, which may be severely dependent on map pick, but which have an effective damage reduction of 90% if deployed in cover, and which shred infantry and vehicles alike from long range.
- Basilisks, which might just as well be the most effective artillery unit in the game.
- Sentinels, which melt vehicles to slag, are fast, manoeuvrable, can move in fleets, and decap.
- Hellhounds, which can serve almost every role other than anti-vehicle.
- Priests either for additional melee shielding or boosting squads.
- A command squad with 3 psykers for that juicy triple split soul, triple lightning arc, triple vehicle disable.

I see your pred and dread and I cast curse of the machine spirit then melt it with sentinels. I see your zerks and sorry I don't actually see them because they can't even get close. I see your wyches and I burn them alive with hellhounds.

T2 is when the IG snowball starts rolling. If you don't beat them into the ground in T1, you're dead.

If you can afford to do all or even most of those things your opponent deserves to lose. The opponent is supposed to put pressure on you too. And close the gap with your launchers.

And for Commanders Boreale and Chaos lord are slow you can just dodge them and harass. Those guys are the brute of the game

But more important, JRIz fight me for 5th place, no balance here!

 

[Darth Roxor]

If you can afford to do all or even most of those things your opponent deserves to lose.

Everything the IG has is cheap. Infantry is cheap, commanders are cheap, vehicles are cheap, even upgrades are cheap. All you need is to keep tabs on your ekanami (also, less known bit of trivia: IG's global resource upgrades are both cheaper and more effective than other races) and get half of the above shopping list and you're good to go. For instance, I derped my ekanami terribly in that game vs Jaedar and lost - if I hadn't, things would look much different I'm sure.

And close the gap with your launchers.

Hard to close the gap when they have upgraded fire warrior range and knockdown and are spread across 3 squads

And for Commanders Boreale and Chaos lord are slow you can just dodge them and harass.

you dodge them and harass with your command squad's amazing ranged damage?

But more important, JRIz fight me for 5th place, no balance here!

you've got the right idea kid i see a bright future ahead of you