Editorial Deep Dungeon: Exploring the Design of Dark Souls

[Grunker]

I can see why some would like this game, but praising it from the viewpoint of RPG Codex merits seems strange to me.

the best action game for an RPG fan.

The point I'm dancing around because I don't want to venture down that path is that I don't consider it more of an RPG than Mass Effect, really. And no, I don't want to start this discussion, I just wonder why so many cool people cling to the discourse that that's what it is. For me, it is a problem to consider it a contender for Best RPG for the same reason that I hate Codexers who sing Drakensang's praises but have a burning hatred for Dragon Age: Origins. I.e. they had fun with the game because of X, so it must also be a good RPG, right?

As I said, I have no problem with this attitude:

It's a challenging game, with no hand-holding, that keeps it's secrets well hidden, has a fantastics atmosphere & level design and allows for multiple playstyles.

Plenty of games have this and are praised on the Codex. General Gaming is full of them.

But as I said, it is futile to argue this. Two pages from now we're going to be in the middle of a discussion neither of us are particularly interesting in taking...

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

I can see why some would like this game, but praising it from the viewpoint of RPG Codex merits seems strange to me.

the best action game for an RPG fan.

The point I'm dancing around because I don't want to venture down that path is that I don't consider it more of an RPG than Mass Effect, really. .

Too late!

I don't think many people claim it is more of an RPG than Mass Effect, just that it is a better game. I've definitely seen alot of "best RPG" around the net, but I haven't noticed that language much in these forums. Could be that I'm just oblivious though.

The comparison I find interesting is Dark Souls and Diablo. Why would one be an ARPG and the other be an action game? DS definitely feels more action-gamey than Diablo, but I have trouble putting my finger on what it is about Diablo that is more "RPG." (Other than the clicking). The combat in both is action, with the DS combat being more like stereotypical action games and the Diablo combat more like an RTS. Plot wise, both are fairly linear (with Diablo providing fewer C&C opportunities if anything).

Then again, I suspect these forums are also chock full of "is Diablo a real RPG?" topics I just haven't seen.

 

[Grunker]

For a newfag starting the most hopeless discussion on the 'dex, that wasn't half-bad, actually.

I'm still not going to get into it though

 

[Surf Solar]

I can see why some would like this game, but praising it from the viewpoint of RPG Codex merits seems strange to me.

the best action game for an RPG fan.

The point I'm dancing around because I don't want to venture down that path is that I don't consider it more of an RPG than Mass Effect, really. And no, I don't want to start this discussion, I just wonder why so many cool people cling to the discourse that that's what it is. For me, it is a problem to consider it a contender for Best RPG for the same reason that I hate Codexers who sing Drakensang's praises but have a burning hatred for Dragon Age: Origins. I.e. they had fun with the game because of X, so it must also be a good RPG, right?

As I said, I have no problem with this attitude:

It's a challenging game, with no hand-holding, that keeps it's secrets well hidden, has a fantastics atmosphere & level design and allows for multiple playstyles.

Plenty of games have this and are praised on the Codex. General Gaming is full of them.

But as I said, it is futile to argue this. Two pages from now we're going to be in the middle of a discussion neither of us are particularly interesting in taking...

To me it's just that - a fun game. I don't give a rats arse if it is considered an RPG or not.

 

[Grunker]

To me it's just that - a fun game. I don't give a rats arse if it is considered an RPG or not.

Very Codexian attitute. It's just not applicable when you're voting for RPG of the Year

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

For a newfag starting the most hopeless discussion on the 'dex, that wasn't half-bad, actually.

I'm still not going to get into it though

High praise, indeed! (for the Codex at least).

 

[felipepepe]

Very Codexian attitute. It's just not applicable when you're voting for RPG of the Year

Define Rpg Codex GOTY Meh, those voting are retarded anyway, 2011 vote was a mess with people shoehorning Dark Souls and Derp Ex & Witcher 2 as runner ups; 2010 had only New Vegas as decent choice and in 2009 we elected Dragon Age... really I wish we did lists like the "Top 5 RPGs of the Decade" or that Bro Developers Choice, otherwise we end up with a unjustified mess of names that is a shame next to what even bloody /v/ recomendations are...

 

[Grunker]

All those can perhaps be discussed, but I really don't consider bunching in Dragon Age with the others legitimate. Unless you're going to say that Baldur's Gate or something shouldn't be on the list.

 

[groke]

I was really suprised at how much I enjoyed Dark Souls, walking back and forth between areas grinding to suddenly realise "oh shit, that's a pathway over there" and suddenly be in a new area was a refreshing change to my modern ARPG expectations. I'm bewildered at people hyping the difficulty though, MM1 is like 100x harder than this. I wonder if it's just retards dumping all their points into STR and then deciding they want to wear robes and throw fireballs?

Then again, I suspect these forums are also chock full of "is Diablo a real RPG?" topics I just haven't seen.

HAHA!

This is a question that doesn't need asking.

 

[Average Manatee]

All those can perhaps be discussed, but I really don't consider bunching in Dragon Age with the others legitimate. Unless you're going to say that Baldur's Gate or something shouldn't be on the list.

But then someone could say the same for bunching Dragon Age in with "real RPGs" (which in the end reduces down to: Whatever I like more). Trying to categorize things into differing levels of RPGness is absolutely futile. The question should be "How many RPG elements are there and how well do they work with the game to make it better?" For Dark Souls that is "not that many, but very well."

 

[Grunker]

I very much disagree with you, but as I said, neither of us want to go down that path (again). And for the record, I like The Witcher 2 as much as Dragon Age, so that's a strawman you can forget