Define tactical combat

[Severian Silk]

In clear terms, what is tactical combat? What sets it apart from combat that is not tactical? The best I can come up with is, "tactical combat is abstracted to a lessor degree".

 

[Zomg]

You could have a perfectly executed sim fight of a human versus a tied-down pig, and it wouldn't be tactical. It's not about the degree of abstraction. When I say combat (or a game in general) is tactical, I mean that it requires contemplative thought for success.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Any combat is tactical to a degree. If you want to define the genre, then it's a matter of defining the magnitude of that degree.

Typically, for me, it means the same situation should never play out twice. If I re-load, I don't instantly know how it's going to play out again. Enemies will change behaviour depending on my behaviour etc... Combat therefore, requirs more thought than "click-click-click".

 

[sqeecoo]

What's with all the definitions? These are just words, there is no absolute judge deciding what falls into which category, and we then have to figure out the categories. No definition can be entirely satisfactory.

Of course, if there are some misunderstandings, it can be useful to talk about important aspects of tac. com. games, but you can't find the "essence" of such games and give a final definition.

If you insist, however, here's a soulution: the meaning of *words* is organized around prototypes. Something is, for instance, called a table if it shares enough features with the prototypical four-legged wooden table. When things get quite different from the prototype, but we don't know where to place them, we pick the best option, but often add expressions like "something like a table", a "table with no legs" etc.

As a prototype for tac. com. gam., I'd pick X-com: Ufo defense. Games like JA are quite similar, while Wiz8 is on the other hand quite different, but shares some features.

 

[kingcomrade]

Halo is the best turn based tactical game ever.

 

[aries202]

I think tactical combat is a re-name thing for what is known as turn-based combat, but that's just me. Hopefully, tactical combat is a bit more quicker than turnbased combat was (and is).

 

[Zomg]

My snippet that you've reproduced over there is terrible in that context. It's really vague, because I was trying to describe a term that I might use critically for wildly different stuff, from Chess to a fighting game. I don't really know what you're trying to do in that article. Is it just about connecting the X-Com/JA mini-genre to Japanese Tactics Ogre descendants?

Genre arguments are pretty fucking boring. TRPGs or SRPGs actually constitute a subgenre because for years they all looked exactly alike, with that isometric stepped playfield that's in all of them, inset character portraits, etc. Maybe later on the genre osmosed Fire Emblem and Advance Wars, but it's a subgenre because if you squint while playing Vanguard Bandits you might be playing Front Mission or FFT or any of a dozen others.

 

[Jim Kata]

It's combat that requires...tactics.

Of course, since it's almost impossible to explain to people what tactics means, or strategy, or that there is a difference between strategy and tactics, I suggest you just kill him now.

 

[Severian Silk]

My snippet that you've reproduced over there is terrible in that context. It's really vague, because I was trying to describe a term that I might use critically for wildly different stuff, from Chess to a fighting game. I don't really know what you're trying to do in that article. Is it just about connecting the X-Com/JA mini-genre to Japanese Tactics Ogre descendants?

Yes, I'm broadening the article to include JA2 and X-COM, or any RPG-ish game that is sufficiently 'tactical'.

In fact, I'm developing a theory that all RPGs fall within a continuim ranging from Action RPG on the one hand, to Tactical RPG on the other.

 

[Ladonna]

The Goldbox games did this very well. Try checking out Pool of Radiance, Champions of Krynn, Buck Rogers: Countdown to doomsday, etc for some fairly good Tactical combat in an RPG.

 

[Severian Silk]

The Gold Box games are already mentioned in the article. Thanks for the recommendation, though!

 

[Section8]

Tactical combat is where an exhibition of superior situational awareness (after the battle is joined) is the most decisive factor in victory.

Bringing a gun to a knife fight is strategic. Having a gun and a knife, and knowing in what circumstance each is a better option is tactical.

 

[obediah]

When I say combat (or a game in general) is tactical, I mean that it requires contemplative thought for success.

I think that's a good start - but for example, a puzzle combat game would require contemplative thought, but would not have tactical combat.

So I'd define tactical combat as a subtype rather than synonym of thinking-man's combat. You're never going to get a perfect classifier that you can stick any game into and get a clean yes or no, but all of the following are important aspects of tactical combat:

- a map: with environmental features that all forces can use to their advantage (if combat in your game goes the same way whether in a flat featureless desert or library it's probably not tactical).

- teamwork: an army of one can benefit from tactics, but you 5-15 is a good number where your brain starts thinking tactically. Too many characters and you're either playing a strategy game or spending months on each combat.

- specialized team members: You don't need rpg stats and advancement, but a lot of the challenge in tactics is figuring out how to use different pieces together looking for the most effective combination

- using some internal mechanics to resolve the success of actions rather than player twitch skills. Several games add a layer of twitch that modify the internal mechanics. The technical term for this is "selling out", it's there to keep the 13 year old kiddies from dismissing it as a boring grandpa game.

 

[Severian Silk]

I think that's a good start - but for example, a puzzle combat game would require contemplative thought, but would not have tactical combat.

Could you provide an example of such a puzzle combat game? I can't think of any.

Typically, for me, it means the same situation should never play out twice. If I re-load, I don't instantly know how it's going to play out again. Enemies will change behaviour depending on my behaviour etc... Combat therefore, requirs more thought than "click-click-click".

In JA2, if you reload the game, then combat does play out exactly the same way. I think thios has more to do with how random numbers are handled by the game.

 

[Jim Kata]

I think that's a good start - but for example, a puzzle combat game would require contemplative thought, but would not have tactical combat.

Could you provide an example of such a puzzle combat game? I can't think of any.

Monkey Island

 

[obediah]

I think that's a good start - but for example, a puzzle combat game would require contemplative thought, but would not have tactical combat.

Could you provide an example of such a puzzle combat game? I can't think of any.

puzzlequest would be a good recent example. I'm not sure of any others, but imagine a combat system that is basically 2-player vs. tetris.

I'd throw collectible card game combat into this bin as well. There is certainly a strategy to winning, and depending on how you use the language 'tactical' may be an appropriate general term, but I think tactical combat suggests military tactics.

Chess, of course, is a great example where all these classifications fall apart. You could make a compelling case that it's tactical combat, or that it's strategic combat, or that it's too abstract to be either and is a puzzle-type game.

 

[EvoG]

Strategy - Plan

Tactics - Techniques used to execute Plan

 

[kingcomrade]

and this stupid debate returns once again

 

[Jim Kata]

and this stupid debate returns once again

Not only the same argument, but the same argument using the exact same words

next comes the part when galsiah or greatatlantic or crichton tells me about tactics in civilization....

 

[AlanC9]

Of course, you'll sometimes see people use "tactical" to refer to small-unit combat, and "strategic" to mean large units. That is, Rainbow 6 is tactical, and Hearts of Iron is strategic.

That's actually the more common usage of the terms. But it isn't very useful around here. By definition, all RPG battles are "tactical" in that sense.

 

[Severian Silk]

I understand the difference between strategy and tactics. My question is about what makes tactical combat different than, say, twitch combat or single-click combat resolution.

 

[LCJr.]

Editing the wiki again are we?

 

[Severian Silk]

Yes. Why?