Editorial Deus Ex, and Why Game Narratives Fail

[utarefson]

I always thought being no-one was the point of frodo - that a good no-one can grow and defeat an entire evil empire.
But so far, i've only read one book beacuse it got to boring and just know the jackson movies, so who am i to say anything about that >.>

Go on with your discussion, it's quite interessting, but go back about videogames&plots a little, thanks?

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Story: First, the queen sleeps with the king. Then, she kills the king.

Summary.

Plot: The queen and king sleep with each other cause they're in love. But then the queen kills him because she's pissed at his poor performance in bed.

Summary.

Story = sequence of events
Plot = reasons and motivations behind the events

Try again.

 

[eugene2k]

How does adding another dimension to the protagonist take away from replay value?

Because the protagonist is the player. In a roleplaying game the point is to be able to decide how you play your role. "Adding another dimension to the protagonist" confines the player to play only in that dimension.

You replay a game because a) you're too lazy to youtube different quest outcomes/endings; b) you enjoy the gameplay; c) the game in question is KotoR.

fixed b)

everything else should just be erased.

P.S. Space invaders is 33 years old. I seriously doubt that any of the current generation games would be remembered in even half that time, so yeah Space Invaders is a perfect example of a highly replayable game and that's why it is considered a classic today.

 

[Regdar]

Because the protagonist is the player. In a roleplaying game the point is to be able to decide how you play your role. "Adding another dimension to the protagonist" confines the player to play only in that dimension.

We're not talking about a D&D adaptation, here. If you want to criticize the game on the basis of "is this a pure RPG", go ahead. But the context there was that DX:HR is obviously a cinematic, dialogue-driven game - in the other words, it's more likely to tell you a story than it is to let you create that story yourself. And in that context a complete, well-designed protagonist is a plus.

Besides, considering the rest of the gameplay and "choices" are mostly superficial, the added replay value of a "blank slate" protagonist still wouldn't be enough for a second playthrough.

All my opinion, of course. I'm sure someone's on his seventh playthrough right now, pondering whether he should climb the stairs and lift the heavy create to proceed to the next objective marker, or simply use the vents.

fixed b)

everything else should just be erased.

No argument there.

 

[Interesting]

What he does is mention other games, without even comparing Deus Ex specifically.

The whole story is about the character unravelling a conspiracy of epic proportions and realistically doing something about it.

All the choices the player makes that have consequences, saving the hostages, giving the weapon to the Dutchman, killing the Belltower captain, saving Malik, helping Haas. Questioning Sarifs methods/secrets. Adam figuring out his origins, who he really is, how he got where he was. Without mentioning his dog, his relationship with Megan and how emotionally he reacts when he finds out she was alive... Without mentioning all the possible ways of actually playing the game, interacting with the world and changing the story.

That article sucks.
The writter tries to hard to critisize the story, yet doesnt even mention a single moment in the story that would strenght his view. He lost his credibility when it became clear that his complains are based on his own delusionary expectations: in his view the story is missing some kind of climax orgasmic moment and ulterior character development, showing that IN REALITY HIS VIEW OF WHAT CONSTITUTES A STORY IS SKEWED.

What was he expecting? Adam to quit once he "matures" from the story? Did the guy even got to see Adam's apartment, did he actually interacted with the game world to actually know the degree of involvement he had with Megan, or witnessed the gossips about the character? And still, how can he complain that the character had no personality. Adam is a "noir" character, he was on spiral of decline, on a suicide mission, he didnt expected to be alive, he was heavy on medication, he was just on floating mode untill the story started. He was looking for answers, for closure, for vegeance. Whatever he learns about the world, the conspiracies/truths and actual development of the plot, only strenghtnens that original path he was following. The player behind the character is his soul, the driving motivation force, the flame that keeps him. Its a perfect setup, done realitstically and coherently with everything presented.

The stupid writter of the article we are talking about doesnt have any idea about story or character development. I bet he played the game half assedly, not "old school" (like the achievement in the first level) and then complains that he did not got wowed by the story or uninpressed by the character...

 

[Gregz]

Finished DE:HR last night. Loved DE1, not a fan of DE:HR

I didn't read the entire article, but the quote from said article in the original post is spot on

Such a bland bland story.

Not to mention:

1) Really disliked the XP bonuses for stealth, felt like the game was punishing me for playing it any other way than how the designers intended. If I want to play a bloody murderer I shouldn't be penalized for it. (and no, the 'headshot' bonus is still less than the 'moral' choice). Min/Maxers hate this kind of thing. This is Deus Ex, not Thief 4 (I like thief, but if I want to play thief I'll play goddamn thief)
2) horrible...horrible ending, boring luddite vs. 'the man' decision...DE1 tackled more interesting themes better.
3) cheesy use of name dropping 'the illuminati', 'triads' etc., DE1 did a vastly better job introducing these.
4) hated getting winded while sprinting
5) hacking was lame
6) too few weapon mods and you get them too late in the game
7) found the plasma rifle way too late, got to use it...once at the end
8) Inventory was a pain in the ass...
9) had to eat candy bars to regen energy, instead of the regen mod going past 1 cell
10) I must have used quickload about 400 times because there's no way to accurately anticipate what the game actors will do. I wouldn't have cared if I didn't lose 30 xp each time!


The best fun I had was when I just said 'fuck it' and slaughtered the entire police force during the riot and sold their weapons to the black market guy. Actually...that was the only fun I had playing this game.

I'm glad they made the game, and I'm glad it was commercially successful so the genre gets more funding, but bleh.